art of animation vs. deluxe??

[luv]

thanks for the time answering my questions.
I am just curious.
There are a lot of variations to see.. the rent.. vs buy vs just go like a normal resort for example.

As Salaries arent that big here in Mexico to handle a 24,000 USD investment flat out... and hope "it rinses".

Time-share is a terrible investment. People who care anything at all about their money will never get involved, if they are either smart or willing to listen to people who are.

I'm not saying it's a dumb idea to buy into it. If that's what people like and they can afford it, I'm totally supportive! But you can do much smarter things with your money, if you care about your money and would like to have more rather than less. You never know what the future will bring, either, KWIM? They can be difficult to get out of, too.

Give it some thought. Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Do your homework before you plunk down all that cash or enter into an agreement to pay it off over time. Get good advice, THEN make your decision.

 

[englanddg]

Time-share is a terrible investment. People who care anything at all about their money will never get involved, if they are either smart or willing to listen to people who are.

I'm not saying it's a dumb idea to buy into it. If that's what people like and they can afford it, I'm totally supportive! But you can do much smarter things with your money, if you care about your money and would like to have more rather than less. You never know what the future will bring, either, KWIM? They can be difficult to get out of, too.

Give it some thought. Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Do your homework before you plunk down all that cash or enter into an agreement to pay it off over time. Get good advice, THEN make your decision.

The fairest analysis of DVC I've read in a while. Kudos!

 

[luv]

The fairest analysis of DVC I've read in a while. Kudos!

Lol, I'm one of those Not Very Smart people who listens to those who are. I seriously considered DVC, but was quickly talked out of it by every smart person I consulted. I also have relatives who required enlisting the help of an attorney that the time-share people didn't want to fight with before they could get out of their time-share...which made me glad I'd never bought into anything like that.

 

[englanddg]

I want to add, or rather, clarify one of your points.

If you view a time-share as an expense, but one you would make anyhow (say to take an annual vacation), it's ok. If you buy into the "I own something of value"...well...that's where you are wrong.

You "own" nothing. You have prepaid for a room. And paid more than you might have if you shopped around more.

That being said, I know plenty of people whom have time shares on the Hilton Head Islands and N. Florida Islands (Amelia, for example) whom are quite happy with it, and it works for them. They get a better property when they stay than if they tried to purchase one, and overall it's a win win for them. But, like they view me weird for going to Disney every year (because I want to), I find it equally weird that they go to Hilton head or Amelia every year (because they feel they have to).

(for the record, I think both islands are boring as heck...it's like staying in town, but you get to visit a dirty beach with dirty water...and fight with mosquitos, and, yes, I have been to both multiple times)

But, to each their own.

DVC is an odd mix of a time-share and a vacation club. When I first heard of it (returning to Disney in 2010) my legal and financial alarms went off in my head. The whole thing just smelled bad. And still does to me.

That being said, I'm the first to admit that I may be missing something great! With DVC, I don't think I am, but it's the same reason I didn't book a placeholder cruise on my last cruise (which would have saved me 10%), even though I knew better. I regret not doing that, because sometime in the next year or two, I KNOW I will be doing another Disney Cruise.

So, all that being said, this is merely personal commentary on @luv 's post...which summarized it perfectly, I think.

 

[Cesar R M]

Time-share is a terrible investment. People who care anything at all about their money will never get involved, if they are either smart or willing to listen to people who are.

I'm not saying it's a dumb idea to buy into it. If that's what people like and they can afford it, I'm totally supportive! But you can do much smarter things with your money, if you care about your money and would like to have more rather than less. You never know what the future will bring, either, KWIM? They can be difficult to get out of, too.

Give it some thought. Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Do your homework before you plunk down all that cash or enter into an agreement to pay it off over time. Get good advice, THEN make your decision.

to be fair, lawyers are awful in these aspect over here

 

[luv]

I just googled "Is time-share a good idea" and found many opinions. They would be specific, for one person - that's why you pay an accountant or lawyer - but you get some ideas.

 

[Cesar R M]

I just googled "Is time-share a good idea" and found many opinions. They would be specific, for one person - that's why you pay an accountant or lawyer - but you get some ideas.

gotcha!, but I think I need to win the lotto first before I go into spending spree (specially for those greedy lawyers)

 

[englanddg]

gotcha!, but I think I need to win the lotto first before I go into spending spree (specially for those greedy lawyers)

You don't really need to outsource either service. Accounting, for a time share, is simple. So is reading a contract.

I'd focus more on the fine print of the contract. If you are too lazy to read it, then pay a lawyer. The salesperson won't have any answers outside of how to lie to you.

 

[englanddg]

And by lie, he may be telling you his truth, what I meant is, I bet that salesperson doesn't know the details of the contract himself, but will present it as though he does.

And that, through implication, is a lie. He's not a bad guy, he's telling you the truth (as he understands it).

 

[ParentsOf4]

DVC is an odd mix of a time-share and a vacation club. When I first heard of it (returning to Disney in 2010) my legal and financial alarms went off in my head. The whole thing just smelled bad. And still does to me.

That being said, I'm the first to admit that I may be missing something great! With DVC, I don't think I am, but it's the same reason I didn't book a placeholder cruise on my last cruise (which would have saved me 10%), even though I knew better.

In general, DVC should be thought of like any luxury item; you buy it because you want it, not because you need it. However, it's also possible to turn a modest profit with DVC, if the market works for you.

DVC prices on the secondary market are up significantly in 2013. Having bought on the resale market before the upturn, my DVC purchases are net gains right now. I could sell them for more than I paid, even after brokerage commission.

However, I didn't buy DVC because I wanted to make money; I bought because I wanted to stay at Disney Deluxe Resorts and wanted to save money. I'll use an extreme example to demonstrate my point.

I can book a Standard View (i.e. parking lot) Studio at the Boardwalk Villas (BWV) for 78 points per week during the popular Food & Wine Festival (F&WF). My annual Maintenance Fee (MF) at BWV is $5.84/point in 2013. That works out to $456/week or $65/night to stay at a WDW Deluxe Resort during a popular time of the year on a purchase that I'm actually ahead of the game. That's simply an unbeatable price.

DVC can work but only in limited circumstances.

For most, the best way to save money is to stay offsite or rent DVC points from a reputable source. David's DVC rental charges $14/point. So that 78-point room costs $156/night, still an incredible price for a WDW Deluxe Resort.

Savings are possible only because WDW's Cash Room Only (CRO) prices are just insane, even with the 10%-30% discounts they offer for most of the year.

 

[ratherbeinwdw]

Not everyone gets AP discounts.

True, but the ap only got us 5% more than the current discount. So everyone was getting 15% and ap's were getting 20%. That's not a big difference.

 

[ratherbeinwdw]

June 2014. And I checked, same price as contemporary and more than WL and AKL. I get 2 bathrooms, but enough to pass on a monorail resort?

Could be the summer rate is much higher for AOA. We've stayed there in September, April, and in 9 days, November.

 

[jlsHouston]

I am considering buying a DVC timeshare on the resale market maybe next year....I could see where I would have a savings staying in the bubble, staying deluxe, and if it all goes to financial crap on me I can probably rent my points to keep up with the maintenance fees or sell them on the resale market at some point...I am basically against timeshares....but adding up what I spend annually to vacation inside WDW the past 3 years, I could have paid for 160 points....easily...maybe more...just in room costs alone I have spent staying at deluxe 15000 bucks..stayed moderate once and value once so you can add another 2500 to what I have spent on the room at WDW...This trip will come out to about 3400 for 12 days deluxe and Dolphin....So by the end of this year I will have parlayed out approximately 20K for a room on property.

So every vacation on property...making more and more sense I could save some $$ if I just went ahead and bought into the DVC...

 

[GoofGoof]

Time-share is a terrible investment. People who care anything at all about their money will never get involved, if they are either smart or willing to listen to people who are.

I'm not saying it's a dumb idea to buy into it. If that's what people like and they can afford it, I'm totally supportive! But you can do much smarter things with your money, if you care about your money and would like to have more rather than less. You never know what the future will bring, either, KWIM? They can be difficult to get out of, too.

Give it some thought. Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Do your homework before you plunk down all that cash or enter into an agreement to pay it off over time. Get good advice, THEN make your decision.

To be fair if you care anything about your money a trip to WDW is a terrible idea. So is buying a Lexus or high end designer shoes. These are all luxury purchases that decline in value over time (especially the shoes). Nobody buys a Lexus and says "I'm hoping to drive it for 10 years and then sell it and make a little money or at least break even." You shouldn't expect it with DVC either.

Timeshares in general are not terrible...until you want to get out. As long as you are content with using them each year most owners are happy. The one huge benefit with DVC is a strong resale market with ROFR. If I wanted to sell my DVC points right now I could probably break even or even make a small profit, but I didn't buy in as an investment. Unless circumstances change I have no intention of selling for a long time. If something does change, I'm glad to have the resale market as a fall back.

 

[luv]

To be fair if you care anything about your money a trip to WDW is a terrible idea. So is buying a Lexus or high end designer shoes. These are all luxury purchases that decline in value over time (especially the shoes). Nobody buys a Lexus and says "I'm hoping to drive it for 10 years and then sell it and make a little money or at least break even." You shouldn't expect it with DVC either.

Timeshares in general are not terrible...until you want to get out. As long as you are content with using them each year most owners are happy. The one huge benefit with DVC is a strong resale market with ROFR. If I wanted to sell my DVC points right now I could probably break even or even make a small profit, but I didn't buy in as an investment. Unless circumstances change I have no intention of selling for a long time. If something does change, I'm glad to have the resale market as a fall back.

You don't know that you will have that to fall back on. Nobody knows what the future will bring.

Again, if people want it and can afford it, there is no reason to avoid it. But everyone should do their homework and understand what they're getting into, since it can be difficult to get out of the deal.

It's not even a bubble issue. There is PLENTY of time-share outside the bubble, too. There might be cheaper time-share, too.

"Look before you leap." My cat always does. So should the rest of us.

 

[GoofGoof]

You don't know that you will have that to fall back on. Nobody knows what the future will bring.

Again, if people want it and can afford it, there is no reason to avoid it. But everyone should do their homework and understand what they're getting into, since it can be difficult to get out of the deal.

It's not even a bubble issue. There is PLENTY of time-share outside the bubble, too. There might be cheaper time-share, too.

"Look before you leap." My cat always does. So should the rest of us.

Not much of a cat person myself. I once watched a cat chase the light from a laser pointer for about an hour. Never realized it wasn't going to catch it.

Could Disney stop exercising the right of first refusal? Yes. Could the resale market dry up? Yes. Could my DVC points go up in value to the point where I vacation for 10 years using them and when I sell I make back enough money to cover my upfront costs plus all of my maintenance fees? Yes. Are any of these things likely to happen? No. These are all possibilities (good and bad), but none are certain or even likely. I don't have a good way to tell people how to model these types of things into their decision except to say don't bank on making any kind of profit if you choose to sell. It's highly unlikely.

The only facts I have to go on is right now there is an active resale market, Disney is actively exercising the right of first refusal and I could sell my points today and at least break even with a modest gain more likely. I tracked resale DVC points for quite a while before I bought in and still follow the market pretty regularly. I have seen no signs at all that the resale market is collapsing or that it would be very difficult to get out if I wanted to. Now if you bought in at $165 a point this year direct from Disney that is a different story. You could still get out, but you will be taking a big loss. Could all of this change? Sure. 9/11 and the housing collapse in 2008 certainly had a negative impact on a lot of investments. I don't know how to predict one of these events accurately so if you want to be conservative you can assume 100% certainty of one happening and assume no value if you resell your points.

Before we bought into DVC I spent several trips at non-DVC timeshares near WDW. They were really nice places, but in the end the inconvenience of driving and parking along with the general uncertaintly of the non-DVC timeshare market swayed me. You can regularly find timeshares for sale for $1 with people looking to just get out from under maintenance fees. I didn't want to get involved in all of that. For me location mattters. If I go to a beach town for vacation I want to stay oceanfront. I want to wake up and see the waves and in the morning have a cup of coffee on my balcony overlooking the beach. I know I will be spending most of the day at the beach and the family sitting next to me who are staying at the Motel 6 just outside of town paid 1/3 what I paid for my room and only had a 10 minute drive to the beach, but I don't really care. I have limited time to "get away" and I want to make the most of it. This same logic applies to WDW for me. If I'm there I want to stay at BLT and walk to MK or stay ar Boardwalk and walk to EPCOT. I don't want to have to drive places. For me it's not really about a bubble or pixie dust or anything like that. Just because someone chooses to stay at a Disney hotel doesn't mean that they are not aware of the fact that nice hotels exist off property or that they are usually cheaper. Some people just prefer to stay on property just like some prefer to drive a Lexus.

One last point before I end this rather long rant. Don't always assume that everyone who bought into DVC did so on a pixie dusted whim or without doing their homework. I know there are some who did, but some people did carefully weigh the options and decided to buy in. It certainly is a big commitment and not something to be entered into lightly and it is not right for a lot of people (especially if you have to finance).

 

[luv]

Not much of a cat person myself. I once watched a cat chase the light from a laser pointer for about an hour. Never realized it wasn't going to catch it.

Could Disney stop exercising the right of first refusal? Yes. Could the resale market dry up? Yes. Could my DVC points go up in value to the point where I vacation for 10 years using them and when I sell I make back enough money to cover my upfront costs plus all of my maintenance fees? Yes. Are any of these things likely to happen? No. These are all possibilities (good and bad), but none are certain or even likely. I don't have a good way to tell people how to model these types of things into their decision except to say don't bank on making any kind of profit if you choose to sell. It's highly unlikely.

The only facts I have to go on is right now there is an active resale market, Disney is actively exercising the right of first refusal and I could sell my points today and at least break even with a modest gain more likely. I tracked resale DVC points for quite a while before I bought in and still follow the market pretty regularly. I have seen no signs at all that the resale market is collapsing or that it would be very difficult to get out if I wanted to. Now if you bought in at $165 a point this year direct from Disney that is a different story. You could still get out, but you will be taking a big loss. Could all of this change? Sure. 9/11 and the housing collapse in 2008 certainly had a negative impact on a lot of investments. I don't know how to predict one of these events accurately so if you want to be conservative you can assume 100% certainty of one happening and assume no value if you resell your points.

Before we bought into DVC I spent several trips at non-DVC timeshares near WDW. They were really nice places, but in the end the inconvenience of driving and parking along with the general uncertaintly of the non-DVC timeshare market swayed me. You can regularly find timeshares for sale for $1 with people looking to just get out from under maintenance fees. I didn't want to get involved in all of that. For me location mattters. If I go to a beach town for vacation I want to stay oceanfront. I want to wake up and see the waves and in the morning have a cup of coffee on my balcony overlooking the beach. I know I will be spending most of the day at the beach and the family sitting next to me who are staying at the Motel 6 just outside of town paid 1/3 what I paid for my room and only had a 10 minute drive to the beach, but I don't really care. I have limited time to "get away" and I want to make the most of it. This same logic applies to WDW for me. If I'm there I want to stay at BLT and walk to MK or stay ar Boardwalk and walk to EPCOT. I don't want to have to drive places. For me it's not really about a bubble or pixie dust or anything like that. Just because someone chooses to stay at a Disney hotel doesn't mean that they are not aware of the fact that nice hotels exist off property or that they are usually cheaper. Some people just prefer to stay on property just like some prefer to drive a Lexus.

One last point before I end this rather long rant. Don't always assume that everyone who bought into DVC did so on a pixie dusted whim or without doing their homework. I know there are some who did, but some people did carefully weigh the options and decided to buy in. It certainly is a big commitment and not something to be entered into lightly and it is not right for a lot of people (especially if you have to finance).

For the LAST time, I do not think everyone who buys time-share is stupid or that it is necessarily a bad thing. But I've repeated it enough and am going to stop.

I just think that everyone - and especially those who want to be careful with their money - should do their homework and talk to experts before plunking down the money (or entering into an agreement to pay it off over time.)

Look before you leap. That's all.

 

[GoofGoof]

For the LAST time, I do not think everyone who buys time-share is stupid or that it is necessarily a bad thing. But I've repeated it enough and am going to stop.

I just think that everyone - and especially those who want to be careful with their money - should do their homework and talk to experts before plunking down the money (or entering into an agreement to pay it off over time.)

Look before you leap. That's all.

I agree with you on these points. Anyone considering buying in should absolutely do their homework and take the time to understand what they are committing to and most importantly be able to actually afford it. I also agree that not everyone that buys time-share is stupid.

I'm still sticking by the cat comment. Dogs rule!!!

 

[Cesar R M]

Before we bought into DVC I spent several trips at non-DVC timeshares near WDW. They were really nice places, but in the end the inconvenience of driving and parking along with the general uncertaintly of the non-DVC timeshare market swayed me. You can regularly find timeshares for sale for $1 with people looking to just get out from under maintenance fees. I didn't want to get involved in all of that. For me location mattters. If I go to a beach town for vacation I want to stay oceanfront. I want to wake up and see the waves and in the morning have a cup of coffee on my balcony overlooking the beach. I know I will be spending most of the day at the beach and the family sitting next to me who are staying at the Motel 6 just outside of town paid 1/3 what I paid for my room and only had a 10 minute drive to the beach, but I don't really care. I have limited time to "get away" and I want to make the most of it. This same logic applies to WDW for me. If I'm there I want to stay at BLT and walk to MK or stay ar Boardwalk and walk to EPCOT. I don't want to have to drive places. For me it's not really about a bubble or pixie dust or anything like that. Just because someone chooses to stay at a Disney hotel doesn't mean that they are not aware of the fact that nice hotels exist off property or that they are usually cheaper. Some people just prefer to stay on property just like some prefer to drive a Lexus.

I do not think that part counts (the bold one) in the WDW zone.
Because most people go for the PARKS, not for the "beach".
I think that's why Disney made so many different hotels for every type...

I think the point is, if you spend most of the time going to the parks.. why use way too much money into a super deluxe hotel you only go to crash and sleep?
for someone who wants to squeeze as much juice from the parks.. the DVC makes more sense...

I think we're seeing this point from completely different sides of the spectrum in the accommodation issue.
Now, if I was going exclusively for the beach or for certain part.. Id have to agree with you.

 

[GoofGoof]

I do not think that part counts (the bold one) in the WDW zone.
Because most people go for the PARKS, not for the "beach".
I think that's why Disney made so many different hotels for every type...

I think the point is, if you spend most of the time going to the parks.. why use way too much money into a super deluxe hotel you only go to crash and sleep?
for someone who wants to squeeze as much juice from the parks.. the DVC makes more sense...

I think we're seeing this point from completely different sides of the spectrum in the accommodation issue.
Now, if I was going exclusively for the beach or for certain part.. Id have to agree with you.

Let me try to clarify my point. If I go to the beach I like to stay ocean front. I like to be able to walk out of my hotel right on to the beach. You pay a steep premium for that location. If I wanted to save some money I could stay at a hotel 10 minutes from the beach and drive in to the beach and park in a public lot. In both cases I still have the same experience once I get to the beach, but for me it's worth the money for the convenience and the views.

With WDW you could buy a timeshare out on International Drive for much less than you would pay for DVC. You could drive 10 minutes and be at the parks. I was trying to draw a parallel to the beachfront hotel. For some people they could care less. They just want a place to sleep at night. For me where I stay is an important part of the experience. It's just a matter of preference or opinion. No right or wrong.