Ariel's Adventure (Little Mermaid E Ticket) CONFIRMED!

[DisneyParksFan1]

Ya know, Eric's Castle could be a nice backdrop to a little water show in the lagoon. That'd be so cool.

 

[TP2000]

AWESOME. Bring that ship, too!

Here's a better pic of Prince Eric's ship anchored in front of the castle.

 

[_Scar]

That ship wrecks in the movie lol

 

[Figment632]

I agree. Even though the lines are long, especially at WDW, FP makes them worse and it kind of tries to defy what the concept of a queue, well a Disney queue, is. A well themed, intricate, and an immersive waiting area full of back-story before you enter the actual attraction.

It works fine except on Omnimovers.

How do you not understand this? The ride system does not matter, it's total capacity per hour. If the demand for the attraction exceeds that capacity it creates a line.

The demand for Haunted Mansion is larger than the demand for The Seas with Nemo and Friends. For that reason I would argue that Haunted Mansion could utilized Fastpass while it would not be as necessary on The Seas with Nemo and Friends.

Rides like Kilimanjaro Safaris and Kali River Rapids have a larger capacity than any omnimovers, yet they utilize Fastpass because often times their demand necessitates it.

How do you not get it! Lets take SSE which is constantly moving on a very busy day. If they have FP then they stop the standard line for lets say 2 minutes to let FP through. People don't stop getting on line so the line backs up for those 2 minutes. Lets now say that people abuse FP and show up late. The FP line is getting long so they stop the standard line fo 6 minutes this time.

It is a pattern everytime you stop the normaly constantly moving line for FP the wait will be longer.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Get a fastpass and stop moaning like a girl. FFS.

 

[yeti]

Get a fastpass and stop moaning like a girl. FFS.

:lol:

Finally.

 

[_Scar]

I also support the "get a fastpass and stop moaning" comment.

 

[fyn]

How do you not get it! Lets take SSE which is constantly moving on a very busy day. If they have FP then they stop the standard line for lets say 2 minutes to let FP through. People don't stop getting on line so the line backs up for those 2 minutes. Lets now say that people abuse FP and show up late. The FP line is getting long so they stop the standard line fo 6 minutes this time.

It is a pattern everytime you stop the normaly constantly moving line for FP the wait will be longer.

I think you're assuming that the guests using Fast Passes would (in a world without FPs) not just be in the normal line, and I think that's a wrong assumption. Rides move people per hour, period. If you took the people in the fast pass line, and moved them into the regular line (like it was before fastpasses) the overall wait time is the same.

All the system has done is given a group of guests, who would have been ahead of you anyway, the chance to go and do other things instead of waiting in line the entire time. Whether or not that's a good thing overall is debatable, but it certainly doesn't make overall wait times longer.

 

[Figment632]

I think you're assuming that the guests using Fast Passes would (in a world without FPs) not just be in the normal line, and I think that's a wrong assumption. Rides move people per hour, period. If you took the people in the fast pass line, and moved them into the regular line (like it was before fastpasses) the overall wait time is the same.

All the system has done is given a group of guests, who would have been ahead of you anyway, the chance to go and do other things instead of waiting in line the entire time. Whether or not that's a good thing overall is debatable, but it certainly doesn't make overall wait times longer.

The thing you are not getting is that the line is costantly moving it doesn't stop unless the number of guets is over whelming. On New Years Eve the line for SSE filled all of the queue on both sides and wrapped around almost to innoventions. The wait was posted at 1 hour, in reality it was 25 minutes.

And don't get me wrong I love FP just not on omnimovers.

 

[fyn]

The thing you are not getting is that the line is costantly moving it doesn't stop unless the number of guets is over whelming. On New Years Eve the line for SSE filled all of the queue on both sides and wrapped around almost to innoventions. The wait was posted at 1 hour, in reality it was 25 minutes.

And don't get me wrong I love FP just not on omnimovers.

How does a load rate that is continuous vs. stop/start, when riders/hour is equivalent, affect the wait time?

Or, are you saying the omnimovers don't have wait times long enough to justify a Fast Pass system? If that's the case, what does it matter whether the ride has it or not?

If you're claiming it somehow increases the wait time on Omnimovers, try to use math in your explanation. It's easier to understand.

 

[Figment632]

How does a load rate that is continuous vs. stop/start, when riders/hour is equivalent, affect the wait time?

Or, are you saying the omnimovers don't have wait times long enough to justify a Fast Pass system? If that's the case, what does it matter whether the ride has it or not?

If you're claiming it somehow increases the wait time on Omnimovers, try to use math in your explanation. It's easier to understand.

Well since we don't have any data that would be a hard thing to do.

Logic dictates that when you stop something that is moving there is a delay. Logically if they stop the normal line to let FP people through the normal line will be longer. If it is not moving and more people are getting on line there is an increase in the wait.

It like the NJ turnpike when there is an accident and you can't move for 25 minutes, you will be 25 minutes behind schedule.

 

[fyn]

Well since we don't have any data that would be a hard thing to do.

Logic dictates that when you stop something that is moving there is a delay. Logically if they stop the normal line to let FP people through the normal line will be longer. If it is not moving and more people are getting on line there is an increase in the wait.

It like the NJ turnpike when there is an accident and you can't move for 25 minutes, you will be 25 minutes behind schedule.

So you don't like that the CM has to spend .5 seconds per fastpass group to turn and allow them onto the ride? Remember that the people in the fastpass line would just be in the normal line if there wasn't a fastpass, and it would still take them the same amount of time to walk onto the ride.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It works fine except on Omnimovers.


How do you not get it! Lets take SSE which is constantly moving on a very busy day. If they have FP then they stop the standard line for lets say 2 minutes to let FP through. People don't stop getting on line so the line backs up for those 2 minutes. Lets now say that people abuse FP and show up late. The FP line is getting long so they stop the standard line fo 6 minutes this time.

It is a pattern everytime you stop the normaly constantly moving line for FP the wait will be longer.

I've tried not to talk down to you, and I'll try to do that in this post as well. If this comes off as condescending, I apologize in advance.

In your Spaceship Earth example, let's assume that Spaceship Earth loads 4 people every 5.76 seconds for a total capacity per hour of 2500. The capacity of the attraction is determined by the speed in which it loads, and from a business operations standpoint, we will refer to this as the bottleneck of the operation. If the attraction was not an omnimover, but could load 20 people every 15 seconds, it would have a much larger capacity (4800) and would be ok to use Fastpass in your mind because it isn't an omnimover.

If there is a cast member that is collecting Fastpasses for the attraction, they will not be collecting those fastpasses right at the load area, but rather at a Fastpass merge point. The wait after this merge point will typically be long enough so that there is a continuous flow of guests coming from the merge point. This will create a buffer of say 20-30 guests between the merge point and the loading area. The cast member that is receiving the fastpasses can then move through guests at the same pace that the cast member in charge of loading is loading guests (4 guests for ever 5.76 seconds). If this results in the standby line waiting 2 minutes, it would mean that during those two minutes, that means the Fastpass Cast member let in 80 fastpass guests to 0 Standby guests (which is entirely possible). The same type of thing would happen in another attraction that was not an Omnimover had the same capacity.

Get a fastpass and stop moaning like a girl. FFS.

Thank you

The thing you are not getting is that the line is costantly moving it doesn't stop unless the number of guets is over whelming. On New Years Eve the line for SSE filled all of the queue on both sides and wrapped around almost to innoventions. The wait was posted at 1 hour, in reality it was 25 minutes.

And don't get me wrong I love FP just not on omnimovers.

The posted wait time has no bearing on your argument whatsoever. If a ride's capacity is 2500, and there are 2500 people in line in front of you, you will wait an hour.

In that same situation if you get in the standby line, and there are 2000 people in the standby line, and 0 people in the fastpass line, but 500 people get in the fastpass line before you reach the merge point, than you will also wait an hour.

Once again the ride system is irrelevent.

To continue the argument further. The omnimover is actually one of the best type of ride system for using fastpass, provided the demand for the attraction necessitates it, because it facilitates a larger capacity of guests per hour and the dispatch interval is relatively small. The argument against the use of Fastpass makes sense when discussing shows. Continuous running shows like PhilharMagic or It's Tough to be a Bug shouldn't use fastpass in it's current form because the show interval (essentially the dispatch interval) can be something like 20 minutes as opposed to 5.76 seconds.

How does the rate that a ride loads users affect the wait time?

Or, are you saying the omnimovers don't have wait times long enough to justify a Fast Pass system? If that's the case, what does it matter whether the ride has it or not?

If you're claiming it somehow increases the wait time on Omnimovers, try to use math in your explanation. It's easier to understand.

Fastpass lengthens the standby line - that's relatively straight forward. However, the proper utilization of fastpass (for rides) is contingent on capacity per hour. The reason why the distinction (for rides) is necessary is because rides typically have dispatch intervals of less than 1 minute. This means that the variability of the wait for two attractions that have the same hourly capacity but different dispatch intervals should be less than a minute given the same amount of people in line.

This means that if attraction A can dispatch 2 people every 3 seconds, it will have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If attract B can dispatch 40 people every 60 seconds, it will also have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction A, your wait will be 1 hour, and 3 seconds. If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction B, your wait will be 1 hour, and 1 minute.

That is the only difference.

 

[Figment632]

I've tried not to talk down to you, and I'll try to do that in this post as well. If this comes off as condescending, I apologize in advance.

In your Spaceship Earth example, let's assume that Spaceship Earth loads 4 people every 5.76 seconds for a total capacity per hour of 2500. The capacity of the attraction is determined by the speed in which it loads, and from a business operations standpoint, we will refer to this as the bottleneck of the operation. If the attraction was not an omnimover, but could load 20 people every 15 seconds, it would have a much larger capacity (4800) and would be ok to use Fastpass in your mind because it isn't an omnimover.

If there is a cast member that is collecting Fastpasses for the attraction, they will not be collecting those fastpasses right at the load area, but rather at a Fastpass merge point. The wait after this merge point will typically be long enough so that there is a continuous flow of guests coming from the merge point. This will create a buffer of say 20-30 guests between the merge point and the loading area. The cast member that is receiving the fastpasses can then move through guests at the same pace that the cast member in charge of loading is loading guests (4 guests for ever 5.76 seconds). If this results in the standby line waiting 2 minutes, it would mean that during those two minutes, that means the Fastpass Cast member let in 80 fastpass guests to 0 Standby guests (which is entirely possible). The same type of thing would happen in another attraction that was not an Omnimover had the same capacity.



Thank you



The posted wait time has no bearing on your argument whatsoever. If a ride's capacity is 2500, and there are 2500 people in line in front of you, you will wait an hour.

In that same situation if you get in the standby line, and there are 2000 people in the standby line, and 0 people in the fastpass line, but 500 people get in the fastpass line before you reach the merge point, than you will also wait an hour.

Once again the ride system is irrelevent.

To continue the argument further. The omnimover is actually one of the best type of ride system for using fastpass, provided the demand for the attraction necessitates it, because it facilitates a larger capacity of guests per hour and the dispatch interval is relatively small. The argument against the use of Fastpass makes sense when discussing shows. Continuous running shows like PhilharMagic or It's Tough to be a Bug shouldn't use fastpass in it's current form because the show interval (essentially the dispatch interval) can be something like 20 minutes as opposed to 5.76 seconds.



Fastpass lengthens the standby line - that's relatively straight forward. However, the proper utilization of fastpass (for rides) is contingent on capacity per hour. The reason why the distinction (for rides) is necessary is because rides typically have dispatch intervals of less than 1 minute. This means that the variability of the wait for two attractions that have the same hourly capacity but different dispatch intervals should be less than a minute given the same amount of people in line.

This means that if attraction A can dispatch 2 people every 3 seconds, it will have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If attract B can dispatch 40 people every 60 seconds, it will also have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction A, your wait will be 1 hour, and 3 seconds. If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction B, your wait will be 1 hour, and 1 minute.

That is the only difference.

I don't know what you are talking about you have never talked down to me sorry if I gave you that impression. You are not like most people on this site, you can have a logical debate without insulting people :wave:

 

[Next Big Thing]

I've tried not to talk down to you, and I'll try to do that in this post as well. If this comes off as condescending, I apologize in advance.

In your Spaceship Earth example, let's assume that Spaceship Earth loads 4 people every 5.76 seconds for a total capacity per hour of 2500. The capacity of the attraction is determined by the speed in which it loads, and from a business operations standpoint, we will refer to this as the bottleneck of the operation. If the attraction was not an omnimover, but could load 20 people every 15 seconds, it would have a much larger capacity (4800) and would be ok to use Fastpass in your mind because it isn't an omnimover.

If there is a cast member that is collecting Fastpasses for the attraction, they will not be collecting those fastpasses right at the load area, but rather at a Fastpass merge point. The wait after this merge point will typically be long enough so that there is a continuous flow of guests coming from the merge point. This will create a buffer of say 20-30 guests between the merge point and the loading area. The cast member that is receiving the fastpasses can then move through guests at the same pace that the cast member in charge of loading is loading guests (4 guests for ever 5.76 seconds). If this results in the standby line waiting 2 minutes, it would mean that during those two minutes, that means the Fastpass Cast member let in 80 fastpass guests to 0 Standby guests (which is entirely possible). The same type of thing would happen in another attraction that was not an Omnimover had the same capacity.



Thank you



The posted wait time has no bearing on your argument whatsoever. If a ride's capacity is 2500, and there are 2500 people in line in front of you, you will wait an hour.

In that same situation if you get in the standby line, and there are 2000 people in the standby line, and 0 people in the fastpass line, but 500 people get in the fastpass line before you reach the merge point, than you will also wait an hour.

Once again the ride system is irrelevent.

To continue the argument further. The omnimover is actually one of the best type of ride system for using fastpass, provided the demand for the attraction necessitates it, because it facilitates a larger capacity of guests per hour and the dispatch interval is relatively small. The argument against the use of Fastpass makes sense when discussing shows. Continuous running shows like PhilharMagic or It's Tough to be a Bug shouldn't use fastpass in it's current form because the show interval (essentially the dispatch interval) can be something like 20 minutes as opposed to 5.76 seconds.



Fastpass lengthens the standby line - that's relatively straight forward. However, the proper utilization of fastpass (for rides) is contingent on capacity per hour. The reason why the distinction (for rides) is necessary is because rides typically have dispatch intervals of less than 1 minute. This means that the variability of the wait for two attractions that have the same hourly capacity but different dispatch intervals should be less than a minute given the same amount of people in line.

This means that if attraction A can dispatch 2 people every 3 seconds, it will have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If attract B can dispatch 40 people every 60 seconds, it will also have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction A, your wait will be 1 hour, and 3 seconds. If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction B, your wait will be 1 hour, and 1 minute.

That is the only difference.

omg, I am not even a part of this argument and you are driving me crazy acting like you are a know it all on the fast pass system. All you are doing is coming off annoying for repeatedly saying the same thing over and over and pretty stupid throwing around all these numbers that no one cares to read.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't know what you are talking about you have never talked down to me sorry if I gave you that impression. You are not like most people on this site, you can have a logical debate without insulting people :wave:

Good, I'm glad we can continue this as a civil conversation.

omg, I am not even a part of this argument and you are driving me crazy acting like you are a know it all on the fast pass system. All you are doing is coming off annoying for repeatedly saying the same thing over and over and pretty stupid throwing around all these numbers that no one cares to read.

Then again, maybe we can't continue this as a civil conversation.

OK, I don't know who are you, but as you said, you weren't part of this argument, nor did you contribute anything of value to the discussion. I agree that I'm repeating myself, except as I'm repeating myself I'm trying to clarify my point in this discussion.

As to whether or not I'm a know it all on the fast pass system - feel free to think what you want.

 

[_Scar]

omg, I am not even a part of this argument and you are driving me crazy acting like you are a know it all on the fast pass system. All you are doing is coming off annoying for repeatedly saying the same thing over and over and pretty stupid throwing around all these numbers that no one cares to read.

You're the one coming off annoying here.

Capacity and average rides per day all pertain to the "Fast Pass debate"...

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ok, the fastpass debate needs to be brought out into it's own thread so I've created one in the General discussion forum. You can view it here.

 

[fyn]

I've tried not to talk down to you, and I'll try to do that in this post as well. If this comes off as condescending, I apologize in advance.

In your Spaceship Earth example, let's assume that Spaceship Earth loads 4 people every 5.76 seconds for a total capacity per hour of 2500. The capacity of the attraction is determined by the speed in which it loads, and from a business operations standpoint, we will refer to this as the bottleneck of the operation. If the attraction was not an omnimover, but could load 20 people every 15 seconds, it would have a much larger capacity (4800) and would be ok to use Fastpass in your mind because it isn't an omnimover.

If there is a cast member that is collecting Fastpasses for the attraction, they will not be collecting those fastpasses right at the load area, but rather at a Fastpass merge point. The wait after this merge point will typically be long enough so that there is a continuous flow of guests coming from the merge point. This will create a buffer of say 20-30 guests between the merge point and the loading area. The cast member that is receiving the fastpasses can then move through guests at the same pace that the cast member in charge of loading is loading guests (4 guests for ever 5.76 seconds). If this results in the standby line waiting 2 minutes, it would mean that during those two minutes, that means the Fastpass Cast member let in 80 fastpass guests to 0 Standby guests (which is entirely possible). The same type of thing would happen in another attraction that was not an Omnimover had the same capacity.



Thank you



The posted wait time has no bearing on your argument whatsoever. If a ride's capacity is 2500, and there are 2500 people in line in front of you, you will wait an hour.

In that same situation if you get in the standby line, and there are 2000 people in the standby line, and 0 people in the fastpass line, but 500 people get in the fastpass line before you reach the merge point, than you will also wait an hour.

Once again the ride system is irrelevent.

To continue the argument further. The omnimover is actually one of the best type of ride system for using fastpass, provided the demand for the attraction necessitates it, because it facilitates a larger capacity of guests per hour and the dispatch interval is relatively small. The argument against the use of Fastpass makes sense when discussing shows. Continuous running shows like PhilharMagic or It's Tough to be a Bug shouldn't use fastpass in it's current form because the show interval (essentially the dispatch interval) can be something like 20 minutes as opposed to 5.76 seconds.



Fastpass lengthens the standby line - that's relatively straight forward. However, the proper utilization of fastpass (for rides) is contingent on capacity per hour. The reason why the distinction (for rides) is necessary is because rides typically have dispatch intervals of less than 1 minute. This means that the variability of the wait for two attractions that have the same hourly capacity but different dispatch intervals should be less than a minute given the same amount of people in line.

This means that if attraction A can dispatch 2 people every 3 seconds, it will have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If attract B can dispatch 40 people every 60 seconds, it will also have a capacity of 2400 people per hour.

If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction A, your wait will be 1 hour, and 3 seconds. If you are guest #2401 in line for Attraction B, your wait will be 1 hour, and 1 minute.

That is the only difference.

That's a pretty clear and, IMO, accurate explanation. Nicely done.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Ya know, Eric's Castle could be a nice backdrop to a little water show in the lagoon. That'd be so cool.

Yes. Little.


If fine World of Color tiny, don't you? :lol: :lookaroun

Here's a better pic of Prince Eric's ship anchored in front of the castle.

Very nice. Adds a ton of theme.