Are we just spoiled?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

legit question for you/other insiders... doesnt DVC solve or at least stabilize some bottom for the long term future of this company?

It does…that was the whole point.

Dvc was to provide a solid base clientele that shows and buys stuff that creates higher profit levels.

That’s it… the fact they call it a “club” doesn’t mean it’s one. I think some of the more recent buyers don’t seem to understand that…it’s not a social club or status symbol you overpay for…and they do and it’s off the rails.

I don’t want to get into an AP discussion (again)…but dvc in the time of Covid has exposed how weak the “membership” truly is.

 

[crazy4disney]

It does…that was the whole point.

Dvc was to provide a solid base clientele that shows and buys stuff that creates higher profit levels.

That’s it… the fact they call it a “club” doesn’t mean it’s one. I think some of the more recent buyers don’t seem to understand that…it’s not a social club or status symbol you overpay for…and they do and it’s off the rails.

I don’t want to get into and AP discussion (again)…but dvc in the time of Covid has exposed how weak the “membership” truly is.

Thank You & Fair i dont blame you for not wanting to rehash it.....

 

[Raidermatt]

That’s what you need at regional/traditional amusement park.

Disney - credit to them - does not. When they were expanding their properties they played that game…but that era ended.
Most of what Iger built in his last ears - my opinion - where for his personal vanity/ego…not to generate buzz or counter “competition”. Rich men are vain and think about “legacy”…poor schmucks (and chapek) just check their checking account and 401K each day to see if they got a Buck?

A lot of truth to this. But that is because for decades Disney has sold nostalgia more than it has sold new attractions (though certainly they do sell both). They embraced "Legacy" fans even if they produced an "undesirable" attendance mix because they provided guaranteed long term revenue with very little investment needed in marketing or capital expenditures. These guests not only wanted to experience Disney time and time again, they wanted their kids, and grandkids, to experience Disney. And they felt like it was all a big happy family. They were happy to hand over the $'s because it was Uncle Walt (even if he was long gone).

But now Disney is using terms like undesirable to describe its Legacy fans, and they are rapidly changing their business model to discourage them and instead attract the less frequent, less engaged vacationers. Ok, fair enough, but if they are successful in slowly shedding the Legacies, will they be willing to make the greater investment needed to entice the more casual visitors? If you aren't selling nostalgia, you are going to have to sell something. And that something is most certainly going to be a lot more costly than nostalgia.

 

[gorillaball]

Anyone who watched my real-time meltdown in the D23 thread knows what I think about that turd of a presentation. That said, I'm trying to look on the bright side and talk myself off the ledge. Sure, it looks like we're in for a bit of a dry spell in terms of new attractions, but I think we might be under-appreciating the things we've gotten in the last few years.

Let's compare two decades.

2003 to 2012:

Major Attractions
- Soarin'
- Expedition Everest

Minor Attractions
- Under the Sea
- Enchanted Tales with Belle

2013 to 2022:

Major Attractions
- Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
- Flight of Passage
- Slinky Dog Dash
- Rise of the Resistance
- Cosmic Rewind

Minor Attractions
- Na'vi River Journey
- Alien Swirling Saucers
- Smuggler's Run
- Ratatouille

On paper, we should be looking back and saying "wow, what a great Disney Decade this has been at Walt Disney World," yet it feels like everything sucks. Why?

Yes I'm going clear back to your original post to answer the initial question. Why does it feel like everything sucks? I'll just paint it slightly differently to say why, but you know the answer...

2003 to 2012 - Sucked, lack of investment.
2013 to 2022 - Catch up time, lot of projects to watch.
2023 - See 2003 above, it's like we rewound time but we can see the future of suckage. The future where a singular clone animatronic to an existing ride is maybe the highlight of what is coming.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes I'm going clear back to your original post to answer the initial question. Why does it feel like everything sucks? I'll just paint it slightly differently to say why, but you know the answer...

2003 to 2012 - Sucked, lack of investment.
2013 to 2022 - Catch up time, lot of projects to watch.
2023 - See 2003 above, it's like we rewound time but we can see the future of suckage. The future where a singular clone animatronic to an existing ride is maybe the highlight of what is coming.

Yes. I’ve actually have been saying the SAME Thing since around 2010. Unfortunately…there are many witnesses

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I would be surprised if anything gets announced whenever the next Destination D rolls in....

 

[Shiriki_Utundu]

Major Attractions
- Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
- Flight of Passage
- Slinky Dog Dash
- Rise of the Resistance
- Cosmic Rewind

Slinky Dog a major attraction???????

no show scenes
no queue
no innovation
no iconic feature

the only things "major" about it is the queue time of 80 to 120 minutes and early hyped marketing

 

[Shiriki_Utundu]

Minor Attractions
- Na'vi River Journey
- Alien Swirling Saucers
- Smuggler's Run
- Ratatouille

oh and let's do something about this, too:


the only thing "minor" on that list is county carnival level A. S. S.

Navi, Smuggler and Rat are D level. And some could put forth a real argument that Smuggler and Rat are E tickets(but I won't be the one)

 

[mharrington]

Because they have been stretched between 4 parks and that increases demand at all of them? I don't know of many people that would skip parks on their vacation.

My family was not particularly impressed with the Animal Kingdom when we went in 2002, so we've decided to skip it in the future. The additions they've added have not nearly been enough to make me want to go back to AK again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Anyone who watched my real-time meltdown in the D23 thread knows what I think about that turd of a presentation. That said, I'm trying to look on the bright side and talk myself off the ledge. Sure, it looks like we're in for a bit of a dry spell in terms of new attractions, but I think we might be under-appreciating the things we've gotten in the last few years.

Let's compare two decades.

2003 to 2012:

Major Attractions
- Soarin'
- Expedition Everest

Minor Attractions
- Under the Sea
- Enchanted Tales with Belle

2013 to 2022:

Major Attractions
- Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
- Flight of Passage
- Slinky Dog Dash
- Rise of the Resistance
- Cosmic Rewind

Minor Attractions
- Na'vi River Journey
- Alien Swirling Saucers
- Smuggler's Run
- Ratatouille

On paper, we should be looking back and saying "wow, what a great Disney Decade this has been at Walt Disney World," yet it feels like everything sucks. Why?

I mean…you couldn’t have highlighted iger’s mistakes any better

…you work for Comcast or sumpin’?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

While the last decade may have had more additions, it's the lack of quality that's the issue. I'm good with the minor additions and thats what they should be focusing on.

Out of the major additions the last decade only Rise and FOP are on the same level as Soarin and Expedition Everest. Guardians, Mine Train and Slinky are steps below.

It's great they added all those things but that's in the past. The Florida desperately need more additions not new night time shows.

Guardians is a great ride on the level of the best. I agree about the other two.
I think the loss of atmosphere entertainment and the lack of hours in recent years compared to the past is the biggest difference and why the additions aren't as appreciated.
You can add another 20 rides but if you cut the hours of access I have to them, I am losing value. Plenty of us still remember extra magic hours and being at MK till 1AM as a frequent thing.

 

[Wilbret]

I'm just disappointed they didn't take the time when the parks were empty to really get stuff done. Some parts of the country may have been shut down, but construction was fast and furious in the southeast (that was my industry in the covid years), and Florida sure wasn't shut down. They could have been ready for the 50th. This would have created an entirely different tone.

 

[JohnD]

Anyone who watched my real-time meltdown in the D23 thread knows what I think about that turd of a presentation. That said, I'm trying to look on the bright side and talk myself off the ledge. Sure, it looks like we're in for a bit of a dry spell in terms of new attractions, but I think we might be under-appreciating the things we've gotten in the last few years.

Let's compare two decades.

2003 to 2012:

Major Attractions
- Soarin'
- Expedition Everest

Minor Attractions
- Under the Sea
- Enchanted Tales with Belle

2013 to 2022:

Major Attractions
- Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
- Flight of Passage
- Slinky Dog Dash
- Rise of the Resistance
- Cosmic Rewind

Minor Attractions
- Na'vi River Journey
- Alien Swirling Saucers
- Smuggler's Run
- Ratatouille

On paper, we should be looking back and saying "wow, what a great Disney Decade this has been at Walt Disney World," yet it feels like everything sucks. Why?

It's more than the attractions. 2013 to 2022 (mostly 2020 to 2022) also saw

• Addition and removal of FP+
• Removal of Morning and Evening Extra Magic Hours for all resorts and replaced with only 30 minutes morning for all resorts and extra evening hours for Deluxe and "select" Resorts resorts only
• Addition of MyMagic+ which costs $$
• Park reservations are here to stay with park hopping only allowed from reserved park first after 2pm

That's good enough for starters.

 

[Raidermatt]

It's more than the attractions. 2013 to 2022 (mostly 2020 to 2022) also saw

• Addition and removal of FP+
• Removal of Morning and Evening Extra Magic Hours for all resorts and replaced with only 30 minutes morning for all resorts and extra evening hours for Deluxe and "select" Resorts resorts only
• Addition of MyMagic+ which costs $$
• Park reservations are here to stay with park hopping only allowed from reserved park first after 2pm

That's good enough for starters.

If we are just picking the highlights I would like to submit the ending of Magical Express. Not strictly park related, but still a big impact to the overall experience for many.

 

[JohnD]

If we are just picking the highlights I would like to submit the ending of Magical Express. Not strictly park related, but still a big impact to the overall experience for many.

Oh it’s part of it. It was a free means to get you to the resort and even a park after checking your luggage with baggage services as you hop on a Disney bus to a park.

 

[danheaton]

Sidestepping the current conflict in this thread, I think the big issue for me is the removal of perks like Magical Express, Fastpass Plus (for no charge), resort parking for free, and more along with a sharp increase in prices. If Disney isn't going to provide some of the perks that help the guest experience, the other approach is to focus on adding more attractions. If neither happens, that's where the real frustration occurs. I was probably too optimistic about the D23 Expo and them announcing updates to Tomorrowland at DLR in particular, but part of that is that expectations are high because that's where the focus has been lately.

 

[crazy4disney]

If we are just picking the highlights I would like to submit the ending of Magical Express. Not strictly park related, but still a big impact to the overall experience for many.

I never used it but i know many did and enjoyed it. There seems to be decent priced replacements tho. The biggest takeaway from there to me is the fact you no longer can check you luggage in at the hotel and even check in for your flights as well. To me that was such a great “perk” something literally worth paying for especially when renting a car and traveling with a child.

 

[Raidermatt]

I never used it but i know many did and enjoyed it. There seems to be decent priced replacements tho. The biggest takeaway from there to me is the fact you no longer can check you luggage in at the hotel and even check in for your flights as well. To me that was such a great “perk” something literally worth paying for especially when renting a car and traveling with a child.

Exactly. When it first started we used it for both incoming and outgoing. Not having to deal with our luggage from the time we checked it in at our originating airport until they delivered it to our room was big. Being able to check it in at the hotel when we left was huge. Not to mention the free ride.

In recent years we have been starting our trips either at the S/D and now Universal, so we only use it for outgoing, but it was still a big benefit just for the outgoing portion.

There are reasonably priced alternatives, we used Mears Global (their private service) and it was $89 from MCO to Universal for a van for 8 of us, and then $109 from BWV to MCO. For another group of 4 in our party it was $80 and $107. So its certainly not a crippling amount, but still, I can see this being a big deal for those on a tight budget. You can maybe save a bit by using the shuttle service, though how much depends on your party size since that is per person.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney doesn't need to live on 'whats new this year!' kind of mindset like a regional amusement park does.

If Disney just offered the stellar product it was known for, it would draw people in and just the plussing would keep most happy.

But instead Disney got into the negative by doing things like
- running attractions long past due
- failing to modernize as you go
- cheapening out where they did touch things

Now add on top of that all the consumer agitations like
- reductions in service
- converting everything to upsells
- spotty.. or poor.. creative choices

And you get a fanbase that is hungry for way more than just 'do something.. anything' kind of changes. They are experiencing not just stagnation/cuts like we got in the last 15 years.. but full on pivots away from what built the good will in the first place.

It's not 'being spoiled' -- It's wanting your old friend back.

 

[Phonedave]

Sidestepping the current conflict in this thread, I think the big issue for me is the removal of perks like Magical Express, Fastpass Plus (for no charge), resort parking for free, and more along with a sharp increase in prices. If Disney isn't going to provide some of the perks that help the guest experience, the other approach is to focus on adding more attractions. If neither happens, that's where the real frustration occurs. I was probably too optimistic about the D23 Expo and them announcing updates to Tomorrowland at DLR in particular, but part of that is that expectations are high because that's where the focus has been lately.

This ^

I will rehash an experience I told before.

When I first went to WDW as an adult with a family in maybe 1998 (or perhaps 99) I could barely afford it. I was worried about how much we were spending. We stayed in POP Century, planned no Table Service meals, etc. After one day, I was having the best time. Yes it was costing me money, but once I was there, there were so many perks, the place was so clean, there was so much to do, and aside from food, you were not being nickeled and dimed at every turn. I quickly began planning our next trip.

Fast forward to today. I can well afford a trip to WDW. But when I go there I get the feeling of "what am I spending all of this money on" and every time I turn around they try to hit my with another charge from something. Plus with all of the planning and ADRs and Genie+ and LL, it just sucks the fun out of everything. I no longer look forward to a WDW vacation with the same excitement I used to.