freediverdude
Well-Known Member
Wait, what?? A branch fell from the tree?? What are they doing over there? If that tree is unstable the whole area should be closed off, right?
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Are the nets still up at the Tree of Life?
- Thread starter HM GhostHostess
- Start date
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
Haha, that is funny. You do know that a simple "fix it" answer is slightly general. There may not be a simply solution. They may need to replace every branch tip on the tree. Right now there could be rubber branch tips being designed and manufactured that will be available in a few months? I do not know when it will be fixed, but I will certainly not say to close it down and wait. That is simply ridiculous! What you do not understand is that there is thousands of hours engineering time into that ToL and it is not rocket science, it is structural engineering. In the end it is the guests safety that is important. This may not be just a simple fix. However if you have a solid engineering solution, I would recommend that you offer it up.
TDO has a real issue with "if we build it, we won't need to maintain it". It's a sad reoccurring theme for them, actually. This is closely followed by their other nasty habit of "if it breaks we'll remove it and cite 'surveys say guests demand it' or pretend it's always been this way"..
Again, I am confused about what you are referring to. WDW is contineuosly loaded with construction walls and scrims covering all of the areas that are constantly undergoing refurbishment and repairs. Main St USA has never looked better, BTMRR is looking fantastic after a it's recent refurb and these are 2 projects that just finished. There has been quite an increase in maintenance in all of Disney's parks over the past 5+ years. I will have to agree that prior to this upswing in maintenance there was minimal work being done to keep up the parks.
Not exactly sure where I expressed an issue with the cheapness or theming of whatever netting is in place.
This is from your last post.
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How far does the steel structure extend in the braches? Are the concrete branches only the final 12"? Can anything larger than a 1/2" Dia break off? I do not know and I cannot assume that I know. I did not engineer or build it, so I will not make a closed statement saying that TDO does not care. If Disney corporate and legal did not think it was currently safe for guests to walk under those nets, then the entire tree area would have been closed or have would have had a hard covered structure protecting you.
Personally I do not like the netting and complained to Guest Relations and made sure they documented the complaint, just like every time I am in AK I also put in a complaint about EE & the Yeti. I let them know that I am unhappy. I would love to see it all fixed today, but in reality not everything is a "just fix it" type of problem.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
It was the tip of a branch. It was maybe 1/2" diameter and had a few leaves on it. It fell after a tropical storm a while back. After the branch was found the area was closed down for a short time and a support strucure and netting was installed (supposedly temporary) to protect guests if another piece broke off.
I'll post some pics if I can find them.
menamechris
Well-Known Member
I would personally think a statement from Disney -however vague it may be - acknowledging the incident and stating that they are in touch with engineers and maintenance to find a remedy and solution - that would go a long way. Right now, throwing nets up around the tree and walls blocking certain areas, with no comment from management, says to me "Oh well, hope the nets catch the next one that falls..."
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
Actually, I do understand about the thousands of hours of engineering that goes into these things. Aside from the fact that I have worked for more than one engineering firm as a project assistant (many hours spent myself putting man-hour reports together for dozens of projects and numerous project managers along with the all the day-to-day functions supporting project managers who direct all disciplines involved in the engineering for multi-multi-million dollar projects...I learned a LOT about how engineering and "project work" in general works), my husband and all of his family work in engineering. My husband being a "lead" and my father-in-law being a project manager I'm probably much more aware than the 'average Joe' about how engineering works. That said, the drawings for the tree should be pulled, some amount of dismantling should be taking place, if a design flaw is found it should be redesigned, and repair/replacement work with better materials should be expected. I also know that since the tree was built there should have been a plan in place for routine inspection from the foundation all the way out to the tips of the leaves to monitor for stress and structural integrity. Would that prevent any leaf or branch from ever falling off the tree? No. But it would be a great way to know the overall condition of what's there.
Here's a perspective check for the ToL. Motiva recently spent 5 years and billions of dollars building a whole new refining facility not far from our house in Port Arthur. About 6 weeks ago they were starting up the new refinery when a valve failed and caused a major unit failure. The current projection is 12-18 months & the current projected cost to fix everything sits at $760 million. Less than 6 weeks were spent evaluating the extent of the damage from this one failure before the ball was visibly rolling towards making it right. As we speak demo is taking place. In refineries, NOTHING is demo'd without detailed engineered demo plans so the construction crews know exactly what to touch or take out. So, engineering has been working for 6 weeks on something THAT complex and things are happening. How long since the branch fell off the tree???
The ToL is no refinery. It's complex, but it isn't a refinery. It is, however, as simple as fix it. What do we see that is being done to fix the tree? Even if the parts needed are being manufactured as we speak, why isn't the stuff that needs fixing being removed and prepped for the new parts? The fact that there's no prep-work going on that anyone has reported (I add that because I've not been to WDW since last Sept nor do I plan to go anytime soon) is indicative to me that there hasn't been a plan put in place to repair it, they still don't know what to do about it, they don't see the show quality of today as a priority, or they choose not to do anything for the time being. None of those things are acceptable.
Also, having worked as a safety tech with the construction of ExxonMobil's Golden Pass LNG Terminal in Sabine Pass, TX, I'm not at all comfortable with the simplistic net structure that is currently in place. That's veeeery limited protection from falling objects at best. Like I said, I wouldn't walk under it nor would I allow my family to do so.
I may not be an engineer with a specific plan to hand over to you but I know enough about the processes involved to understand that the length of time since the tree had it's first falling branch is getting to be a little on the long side for us to see anything more than an aesthetically acceptable net structure.
Totally not trying to be a "B" here or be a PITA. Just 'splainin' where I'm coming from. I know, I'm a girl. It's kinda like when I take my car in for any maintenance. Ya know?
**in asking my husband about things to compose this response (he's talked to a few "guys" in other disciplines about the parks issues) and is curious what you do or who you are in case you happen to be one of the guys at work...
1. E:E & the Yeti. No, it's not a simple fix. Yes, there'd be miffed guests if it was closed for a year or more even though people survived AK visits for years before E:E was built. No, that's not an excuse to choose to give up and not fix it. And it's not like the problem with the Yeti was just recently discovered. TDO has been sitting on that one for years.
2. KS. Soooo many effects removed or sit dormant over the years because they broke, were problematic, or failed. Again, redesign and fix. Don't give up &/or remove or pretend the story full of awesome effects never existed.
And that's just off the top of my head at AK. There's other things there that have seen far better days in addition to all the things that could be listed for the 3 other parks.
This is from your last post..
Here's my post:
Sure, I have a simple solution and I'm happy to share. Here goes...get ready for it.... Fix it. If something breaks, fix it. It's that simple. Do what it takes and fix it. Not rocket science. Close down what you have to and fix it. Is the park lacking? Perhaps but that's no excuse to not fix something that breaks or needs maintenance. If guests get mad, oh well. Their alternative is to get hurt by falling branches, miss out on the DI trails that aren't open (as I understand not all of them are open for exploration since the branch fell months ago), and/or not have the up-close, amazing experience of gazing up at the ToL..
I don't see anything in any of that about the netting or net structure.
True. But I'm also sure that none of these guests or the ones involved in DL's BTMRR accident thought they were in harm's way either nor did they believe Disney would ever allow such to occur. But it did.
I realize a "fix" may be in the works for the ToL specifically as we speak. However, based on past issues particularly when the problem was complex and/or expensive, I'm not so confident that there's much fixing going on right now. TDO has sorta given themselves a bit of a reputation with these things and it's not a very good one. Cosmetic stuff they seem to be getting themselves together a little with. Complex stuff, notsomuch. No, fixing the things that are wrong aren't simple projects but it doesn't make it okay to leave them as-are either. And, I'm sorry, if an entire refinery unit can be demo'd & repaired in 12-18 months there's no reason any of us should still be looking at a lame-duck Yeti. No?
jlevis
Well-Known Member
Google "disney tree of life branch fell and you'll get several articles including an Orlando Sentinal article quoting Disney. I recall a statement from Disney on a national news station too. Right now, assuming Disney has not acknowledged the incident nor made a comment says to me, "oh well, lets just throw bricks a TDO because its the thing to do."
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
If it lights a fire in their tookus, I'm all about throwin', chuckin', flingin', you name it.
menamechris
Well-Known Member
That's pretty amazing - I just googled exactly what you said - and nothing. I even played with the words a bit. Nothing, except some fan blogs and sites. Disney's current response to really any incident is sending out a form letter - and basically not stating the problem - but acknowledging that you perceive there is a problem. There is a big difference. From what I have seen - there are no official statement from Disney - nor statement regarding what they plan to do moving forward regarding it. I may just be missing those articles though.
jlevis
Well-Known Member
If it lights a fire in their tookus, I'm all about throwin', chuckin', flingin', you name it.
As Dr Phil would say, "how is that working for you?"
jlevis
Well-Known Member
Amazing indeed. Probably did miss them.
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
menamechris
Well-Known Member
Maybe. Perhaps some links? I would love to see the sources. I would actually be thrilled to be wrong...
alissafalco
Well-Known Member
yep, you're exactly right!!
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
Something has to protect the animals when they jump?
BoarderPhreak
Well-Known Member
This zombie thread is ripe for the HM.
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
Somehow, I fail to be surprised.