Are Character Overlays Really the Problem with Epcot's Decreasing Quality?

[Seabasealpha1]

I'd enjoy a real overhaul...another serious and solid attempt at EPCOT as a Permanent World's Fair... given the great advances in Technology that have taken place since the original, the results could be fantastic and really push the envelope of theme park design and execution. Edu-tainment...though greatly unsuccessful the first time, could be seriously thought out and hidden better than ever behind great story lines and breathtaking attractions...teach people...just don't let them know about it...and heck, I wouldn't mind mixing in the IP if it gets a real point across...if I want to re-live the stories of the films, I'll go to Magic Kingdom...but give me Mr. Ray at the seas taking you "along with his class" to learn about life in the "zones" of the ocean...BAM, I'm there...I'm on board...instead, we got a pre-chewed plate of seafood from Disneyland's revamped submarines attraction...that proceeds to annoy me.... more-so because of location at the wrong park given and the re-hash of the story we all know by now to the point of annoyance.

To me, the problem is rooted in two places: Dedication to the concept of EPCOT and two, the execution of ANY concept at all...these piecemeal offerings/closing/openings/hackjobs have all been half-a***d attempts at penny-pinching and shoe-horning into a park that the higher-ups haven't the b***s to take responsibility for/ownership of...

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Oh my heavens noooo...Disney Never had Memorable Characters driven to send a message at Epcot......

 

[raven]

I have a problem of shoving out original park characters for Disney movie characters. But it's all about "cycle of the Disney product" to keep guests buying into everything Disney offers (Theme Parks, Movies, DVDs). Yes, it's a money maker but original park characters used to be one of a kind. Those days are nearly gone now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If having Nemo in the Seas allows even 1 person to fall in love with a manatee then it's doing things right.

You're falsely assuming character distractions are the only method of sparking interest.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You're falsely assuming character distractions are the only method of sparking interest.

Of course not. And some people enjoy a healthy bowl of raw broccoli, too.

I prefer mine steamed with a little Chinese garlic sauce.

Just a spoonful of sugar...

 

[Mickey5150]

You're falsely assuming character distractions are the only method of sparking interest.

It's not that I'm assuming, but we are talking about a cartoon company using cartoon characters to attract guests. Now I would assume that a first time guest to a Disney theme park would expect to see the Disney characters everywhere. I only hope that we don't lose sight of 1 thing, it was all started by a mouse. Seems like Walt's own words should never be forgotten.

 

[danyoung56]

I'm not totally sure of the sequence, but, if memory serves you entered via the hydolators (like I said before) then you saw a short movie talking about the forming and importance of the seas and making sure we take the steps necessary to preserve it because without the seas we are all dead. Then you boarded the SeaCabs and went through the underwater tunnel (where the Nemo setup is now) ...

Close. You first went into an oval shaped holding area, with very cool ethereal music playing and a ring of projected waves above you. You were given a choice between heading directly for the hydrolators or going into the theater to see the movie (I ALWAYS saw the movie - "...and it rained ... and rained ... and rained ... the deluge."). After the movie the doors opened and you got on the hydrolators, which took you "down" into Sea Base Alpha. Then you got on the seacabs and rode past the big windows and into the base itself.

I always enjoyed the illusion of the hydrolators. Now you just go through the queue, get on the ride, and get off. But before, even though you knew you weren't going down at all, it really felt like you were doing a deep dive and entering an underwater facility. I enjoy the current Nemo stuff, but I liked the old show much more.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's not that I'm assuming, but we are talking about a cartoon company using cartoon characters to attract guests. Now I would assume that a first time guest to a Disney theme park would expect to see the Disney characters everywhere. I only hope that we don't lose sight of 1 thing, it was all started by a mouse. Seems like Walt's own words should never be forgotten.

If you're going to invoke Walt then you should better study your history. WED Enterprises was not a cartoon operation.

 

[Doug Means]

Of course it's not the only problem, but it exemplifies the larger problem that they don't care about the original vision and don't really have a new one to replace it with.

didn't the original vision really die with Walt and start changing as soon as he was not around to keep it going the correct way? i don't have a problem with characters in an area that is appropriate for their story, while keeping some of the original ideas. the world showcase especially is ok for that. future world just seems to be out there in a big limbo state. the vision maybe changing, and i don't have a problem with that, but the future world area needs to be ... kept alive?

 

[Glasgow]

Umm, lets talk about FutureWorld. One attraction shuttered for 9 years (WoL), one 20 years w/o an update (UoE), one that is only available to limited audience (M:S, orange), one that barely holds to it's original theme (Innoventions), one that is just a flat out turd (JIYI) and one that recently was refurbed into mediocrity, completely diverging from the original theme (TTv2). The Land, TSwN and SSE are the only "complete" attractions IMO.

Compare this with the original lineup of attractions : Communicore, Horizons, JII, TLS, WoM, TL, UoE, EO, WoL and SSE .. yeah, all cutting edge, all available to the whole family, all great in their own right with a pertinent storyline.

Sure, there is the nagging issue of character integration but as long as you tastefully use the characters, that should be a non-issue. Overall attraction QUALITY is a much, much more important factor for me.

 

[Lucky]

didn't the original vision really die with Walt and start changing as soon as he was not around to keep it going the correct way? i don't have a problem with characters in an area that is appropriate for their story, while keeping some of the original ideas. the world showcase especially is ok for that. future world just seems to be out there in a big limbo state. the vision maybe changing, and i don't have a problem with that, but the future world area needs to be ... kept alive?

I meant the original implemented vision (1982). Walt's original concept (1966) of an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow was very different from that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I meant the original implemented vision (1982). Walt's original concept (1966) of an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow was very different from that.

There are a lot of ideas that came through. What evidence is there that EPCOT's international shopping area and/or Disneyland's International Street were supposed to be about the cartoon characters?

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Why can't this Rule Still be applied....As mentioned in this video at the beginning of the Inaugural speech of Ronald Regan at Epcot Center..

 

[blueboxdoctor]

It's more the fact that Future World is somewhat abandoned in areas. Innoventions isn't really innovative and feels like a waste of space (not much to do in it). Shut down Wonders of Life Pavilion. Getting rid of Horizons for the now-not-so-popular space simulator. The pavilion with the Figment ride. Basically, Future World feels empty and neglected. The World Showcase is still really good, or at least I think it is. I'm fine with characters coming in, kind of adds some Disney magic to it.

Basically:

World Showcase is still really cool.

Future World needs some major help but still has a solid foundation.

 

[bethymouse]

The "future" is just moving way too fast! No one, not even Disney, can keep up with it! There's a new I phone every year, and computers (PCs) are becoming more and more obsolete! The robots may be taking over soon! Seriously though, time marched across the face of EPCOT. I'm not sure if anyone perceived this would happen ( this includes Tomorrowland).

 

[lazyboy97o]

The "future" is just moving way too fast! No one, not even Disney, can keep up with it! There's a new I phone every year, and computers (PCs) are becoming more and more obsolete! The robots may be taking over soon! Seriously though, time marched across the face of EPCOT. I'm not sure if anyone perceived this would happen ( this includes Tomorrowland).

Neither Tomorrowland or Future World dedicated significant storytelling to consumer products.

 

[jensenrick]

Close. You first went into an oval shaped holding area, with very cool ethereal music playing and a ring of projected waves above you. You were given a choice between heading directly for the hydrolators or going into the theater to see the movie (I ALWAYS saw the movie - "...and it rained ... and rained ... and rained ... the deluge."). After the movie the doors opened and you got on the hydrolators, which took you "down" into Sea Base Alpha. Then you got on the seacabs and rode past the big windows and into the base itself.

I always enjoyed the illusion of the hydrolators. Now you just go through the queue, get on the ride, and get off. But before, even though you knew you weren't going down at all, it really felt like you were doing a deep dive and entering an underwater facility. I enjoy the current Nemo stuff, but I liked the old show much more.

I don't recall being given a choice, but if I had, I would have chosen as you did- to see the movie. That whole "deluge" sequence was awe inspiring to me.
I say this as a Huge Nemo fan- I like the incarnation before Nemo WAY better.

My aunts all love going to Turtle Talk (we walk in the exit to go to this, then leave when it's over) but that has gotten so repetitive and boring, I just roll my eyes thru the whole show.

 

[jensenrick]

Umm, lets talk about FutureWorld. One attraction shuttered for 9 years (WoL), one 20 years w/o an update (UoE), one that is only available to limited audience (M:S, orange), one that barely holds to it's original theme (Innoventions), one that is just a flat out turd (JIYI) and one that recently was refurbed into mediocrity, completely diverging from the original theme (TTv2). The Land, TSwN and SSE are the only "complete" attractions IMO.

Compare this with the original lineup of attractions : Communicore, Horizons, JII, TLS, WoM, TL, UoE, EO, WoL and SSE .. yeah, all cutting edge, all available to the whole family, all great in their own right with a pertinent storyline.

Sure, there is the nagging issue of character integration but as long as you tastefully use the characters, that should be a non-issue. Overall attraction QUALITY is a much, much more important factor for me.

YES THIS! I can't like this enough!

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I've been pondering the current state of Epcot recently, and was trying to pinpoint exactly what issues began the downward tumble for the quality of Epcot. Many fans here on the forum seem to be of the opinion that as soon as Disney began introducing characters from their films like Nemo at the Seas, or The Lion King at The Land was when Epcot began to lose it's vision.

There is issues with some IPS, but its not the root of the problem.

The problems with Epcot really started quietly even before the 2nd version the Imagination ride opened in 2001 or Circle of Life opened in 1995. Lion King was used properly at the time.

I first went to WDW in the early 1990's. The problems with Epcot really started with 3 things although some people would argue with the problems starting with the closings of World of Motion or Horizons. Here are my 3 things that caused the decline of Epcot.

1.) The amount of building in Epcot not being used full time by the general public starting with the Odyssey counter service closing and is now continuing up a good portion of Innoventions. Disney actually started closing buildings in Epcot before Disney started to IPS like in Circle of Life. While the closing of a counter service sounds minor, but it how the building was used after that. The Odyssey closed back in the 1990's way before Wonders of Life Millennium Village, and now a lot of Innoventions being closed closed at over half the year to the general public.

The Odyssey is the first of multiple buildings that Disney first used for the general park goer, but Disney later on decided to close from the general public for a least of half of the year. Disney continues that practice now with other buildings in Epcot like Wonders of Life. Disney now days used the buildings as festival places or for corporate events. All buildings starting with the Odyssey is stuff that actually Disney could use for the general public now days full time for one use or another including more attractions. Wonders of Life Building would be better used as an attractions building instead of a festival center matter of fact.

2.) Disney not keeping things updated starting with Innoventions. While Innoventions was a great concept in the beginning, it started a theme at Future World. Disney allowed Innoventions get outdated and the same thing is happening with Universe of Energy. It also happened with the Honey, I shrunk the Audience attraction before it closed.

3.) The Imagination pavilion problems with both sections of the pavilion aka the ride and film sections. The Pavilion started as a problem after the first Imagination ride closed. The 2nd version of the Imagination ride actually really started the route of the problems with that Pavilion. I went on that attraction once during one of the 2 years it was open before it was replaced by a third version. The 2nd version was a panned ride that you can make the argument that it was the worst ride ever opened at WDW.

While the 3rd version of the Imagination ride is better than the 2nd version, the pavilion never recovered combined with the film issues with the pavilion.

The film issues of the pavilion to me started with Honey, I shrunk the Audience stayed too long as a 3rd film with it aging poorly from a technology standpoint and go to a film that is even more outdated in Captain Eo. Honey, I shrunk the Audience was fine at first, but Disney really needed to get a new film attraction 5 years before they brought back Captain Eo. Disney only brought back Eo due to Michael's death, but their mistake was keeping the attraction as long as they did.

 

[ItsOn]

I wish they would bring back Food Rocks!