Are APs treated like 2nd class citizens when compared to DVC?

[darthjohnny]

You're confusing "respect" with "perks," and no offence, but I find that to be a little sad. Disney isn't spitting on Seasonal Passholders. They won't kick an AP holder out of Cali Grill because a DVC "owner" deigns to dine at the same table. They're giving incentives to people who shell out more money. And Disney isn't the only business to offer more perks to people who spend more money. High rollers at Vegas or Atlantic City-people gambling obscene amounts of money-often get free hotel rooms, maybe even suites, comped meals, comped drinks, tickets to top shows, maybe even a professional shopper for the spouse or kids so the gambler can keep gambling uninterrupted. Does that mean I'm not respected because I'm just staying a weekend and all I get is a coupon for a free appetizer? If you buy a Porsche with all the bells andwhistles, they might throw you a free eacing jacket & sunglasses. Does that mean the person who buys a base model Porsche isn't respected because all they got was a certificate for 20 bucks in gas? You spend more money, you get the possibility of more perks, amd there is a cutoff point for said perks.

Vegas does give perks to people who keep gambling again and again, they are the players clubs that give you comps based on how long and how much you spend. And "respect" and "perks" can be the same. If you look at it your way, every single person who enters the parks gates get respect, that is the Disney way. I'm just saying that APers should get more recognition for keeping on the Disney spirit. Annual Passes are certainly not cheap at all. And since we are the ones who come back again, and again, and again, and again, I'm just saying we should be more equal in terms of what perks we get, since even some passholders have been coming to Disney for years, and have been passholders longer than DVC has existed.

 

[DolFan]

I am a seasonal passholder. When I go to the new ride previews I always think about how it is unfair that the DVC members get to take in guests. But if you think about it, Disney does make more money from them. They buy regular priced tickets and tend to spend more money then a passholder at the parks along with their pricey timeshare. Yes I feel like we are treated like 2nd class, but the DVC members probably feel the same way.

 

[Tigger1988]

Vegas does give perks to people who keep gambling again and again, they are the players clubs that give you comps based on how long and how much you spend. And "respect" and "perks" can be the same. If you look at it your way, every single person who enters the parks gates get respect, that is the Disney way. I'm just saying that APers should get more recognition for keeping on the Disney spirit. Annual Passes are certainly not cheap at all. And since we are the ones who come back again, and again, and again, and again, I'm just saying we should be more equal in terms of what perks we get, since even some passholders have been coming to Disney for years, and have been passholders longer than DVC has existed.

You still don't get that the DVC costs ALOT more than AP. You have your DVC for 40 years, thats basically 40 years guaranteed that you'll be visiting WDW. In the longrun Disney is making more money off of the DVC. You're spending less so really a few less discounts shouldn't be a big problem.

 

[darthjohnny]

You still don't get that the DVC costs ALOT more than AP. You have your DVC for 40 years, thats basically 40 years guaranteed that you'll be visiting WDW. In the longrun Disney is making more money off of the DVC. You're spending less so really a few less discounts shouldn't be a big problem.

But DVC members are not required to stay members. I believe they can stop being members if they want to stop paying the fees. I realize that DVC pays A LOT, I have taken the open house tour at Saratoga Springs.

But many of you don't get my point. DVC is not gauranteeing that you will always visit Disney. You can keep your points and save them up for up to two years, thats two years of not visiting any Disney location. Also, many people do use their points to visit the other 500+ places around the world. Many people may not spend a lot at Disney because they are already paying out the ying-yang for something they don't truly own. But APs are more likely true Disney fans who are committed to the company, and will keep coming back. That is why I believe we both should be treated at least like equals.

 

[Tigger1988]

But DVC members are not required to stay members. I believe they can stop being members if they want to stop paying the fees. I realize that DVC pays A LOT, I have taken the open house tour at Saratoga Springs.

But many of you don't get my point. DVC is not gauranteeing that you will always visit Disney. You can keep your points and save them up for up to two years, thats two years of not visiting any Disney location. Also, many people do use their points to visit the other 500+ places around the world. Many people may not spend a lot at Disney because they are already paying out the ying-yang for something they don't truly own. But APs are more likely true Disney fans who are committed to the company, and will keep coming back. That is why I believe we both should be treated at least like equals.

So..DVC owners, aren't "true Disney fans"? What a joke, why would one sign a contract for the DVC but not plan on going back to WDW? I think the DVC makes you more committed to the company. Just because someone doesn't live in Florida or a nearby state and can't visit weekly doesn't make them any less committed. You aren't paying equal so why should you be treated as so.

 

[darthjohnny]

So..DVC owners, aren't "true Disney fans"? What a joke, why would one sign a contract for the DVC but not plan on going back to WDW? I think the DVC makes you more committed to the company. Just because someone doesn't live in Florida or a nearby state and can't visit weekly doesn't make them any less committed. You aren't paying equal so why should you be treated as so.

Some people do get caught in the heat of the moment and don't think it through before signing away all this money. And are not doing it because they plan to always come to Disney I know a person who was offered lifetime passes to Disney World for a small fee when DVC was just getting started and prices were cheap. But he turned it down because he thought "How many times will I keep coming to Disney?" He doesn't come to Disney as much as you would thing and ends up wasting his points.

I'm not really putting down DVC members, you guys are taking it way to far. I think you are all putting down APers. Just because they have the money to spend doesn't qualify a Disney fan, there are plenty of factors. I truly believe we should be treated as equals.

 

[Tigger1988]

Some people do get caught in the heat of the moment and don't think it through before signing away all this money. And are not doing it because they plan to always come to Disney I know a person who was offered lifetime passes to Disney World for a small fee when DVC was just getting started and prices were cheap. But he turned it down because he thought "How many times will I keep coming to Disney?" He doesn't come to Disney as much as you would thing and ends up wasting his points.

I'm not really putting down DVC members, you guys are taking it way to far. I think you are all putting down APers. Just because they have the money to spend doesn't qualify a Disney fan, there are plenty of factors. I truly believe we should be treated as equals.

Most DVC owners are avid Disney fans, if they weren't they would have bought one of the 1000's of timeshares offered elsewhere. Disney will give more perks to those who will keep spending money there.

 

[Unplugged]

Annual Pass != (is not equal to) DVC Membership

I think a lot of people are missing a huge key difference:

• Annual Pass = Entry to the parks
• DVC = Ownership of accomodations....NO ENTRY to the parks

I'm a DVC owner and can say, being one has saved me a LOT of money on the accomodations over the years and has already paid for itself during my ownership. That's what it's designed to do. However, I have to either purchase tickets each visit or become an AP holder as many of you are to gain entry to the parks. Keep in mind that as a DVC member, I don't have to use my points to even go to WDW. I choose to because we are HUGE Disney fans, but we can go on a cruise or swap with other international programs. Thus, the discounts are not due to what we spend, but an attempt to get us to come to WDW and keep more money within the parks and resorts. We are property owners of facilities on WDW land and are offered incentives to spend money on-site. This is radically different.

darthjohny stated "But DVC members are not required to stay members. I believe they can stop being members if they want to stop paying the fees."
This is NOT correct. You are NOT paying for a club membership like a health club, you are actually making a real estate purchase. When I "joined" DVC, I actually bought into a specific percentage of a specified unit at Wilderness Lodge. I pay property tax, maintenance fees for upkeep, etc. What this means is:

• If I don't pay the fees, they can sue me.
• If I no longer want to go to WDW, I simply use my points (defined by the size of investment you make) for some other program.
• If I want out of DVC, I have to sell my real estate share.

So, when comparing AP to DVC, you (some, not all...I know) are basically comparing buying a park ticket to buying a condo. There is NO comparison here. You pay a few hundred dollars and get to go to the parks all year long, where as I paid a lot for the property and pay ongoing maintenance fees on the property and have a place to stay when I come down to WDW but do not have park tickets. I must purchase them seperately along with food, drink, souvenires, airfare, rental car/taxi, etc.

 

[Tigger1988]

Fantastic post Unplugged :sohappy:

 

[slappy magoo]

But DVC members are not required to stay members. I believe they can stop being members if they want to stop paying the fees. I realize that DVC pays A LOT, I have taken the open house tour at Saratoga Springs.

But many of you don't get my point. DVC is not gauranteeing that you will always visit Disney. You can keep your points and save them up for up to two years, thats two years of not visiting any Disney location. Also, many people do use their points to visit the other 500+ places around the world. Many people may not spend a lot at Disney because they are already paying out the ying-yang for something they don't truly own. But APs are more likely true Disney fans who are committed to the company, and will keep coming back. That is why I believe we both should be treated at least like equals.

Uh...using that same sort of shaky logic, just because you become an Annual Pasholder ONE year, doesn't mean you'll keep renewing year after year. You can buy an AP one year, visit 2 or 3 or 20 times in the course of that year, then take a couple of years off, and then when you get the itch, get an AP again. Oh, sure YOU might keep renewing, but that doesn't mean every AP holder does...

and while continuing that sort of shaky logic, by going as many times as you do, your per-visit price goes down with each visit. If there's a peak attendance day, your showing up with your AP means a day-visitor might not be able to get in. They have to turn 70 dollars a person-plus parking!-away because YOOOOUUUUUU have to be at WDW again! I'll bet some people in the exec suites will feel that your 12-dollar a trip average is all the perk you deserve. Meanwhile, DVC members not only pay their huge fee up-front, they pay maintenance fees (which, while going towards maintenance, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tiiiiny little profit margin in there somewhere) For someone to "stop paying the fees" while still paying off your points is tantamount to reneging on a mortgage. To "stop paying the fees" AFTER your points are paid off is like throwing away at least 10 thousand dollars. NOBODY is going to do that unless they're stupid or about to declare bankruptcy and have no choice. They can re-sell their points, but nobody is going to reneg on their commitment to their purchase. It'll screw up your credit, royally.

The more you complain that you, as an AP holder, deserve more perks than getting into WDW for less and the room discount, and the option of buying into the Disney Dining Experience and the cheaper renewal fee and the previews and all the other little bells and whistles AP holders get, the more I feel you're about to collapse and I'll have to call the WAAAAAA-mbulance. If you truly feel you deserve more than you're getting, write Disney and tell them you're not getting an AP anymore, and why. They could use a good laugh.

 

[darthjohnny]

Uh...using that same sort of shaky logic, just because you become an Annual Pasholder ONE year, doesn't mean you'll keep renewing year after year. You can buy an AP one year, visit 2 or 3 or 20 times in the course of that year, then take a couple of years off, and then when you get the itch, get an AP again. Oh, sure YOU might keep renewing, but that doesn't mean every AP holder does...

and while continuing that sort of shaky logic, by going as many times as you do, your per-visit price goes down with each visit. If there's a peak attendance day, your showing up with your AP means a day-visitor might not be able to get in. They have to turn 70 dollars a person-plus parking!-away because YOOOOUUUUUU have to be at WDW again! I'll bet some people in the exec suites will feel that your 12-dollar a trip average is all the perk you deserve. Meanwhile, DVC members not only pay their huge fee up-front, they pay maintenance fees (which, while going towards maintenance, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tiiiiny little profit margin in there somewhere) For someone to "stop paying the fees" while still paying off your points is tantamount to reneging on a mortgage. To "stop paying the fees" AFTER your points are paid off is like throwing away at least 10 thousand dollars. NOBODY is going to do that unless they're stupid or about to declare bankruptcy and have no choice. They can re-sell their points, but nobody is going to reneg on their commitment to their purchase. It'll screw up your credit, royally.

The more you complain that you, as an AP holder, deserve more perks than getting into WDW for less and the room discount, and the option of buying into the Disney Dining Experience and the cheaper renewal fee and the previews and all the other little bells and whistles AP holders get, the more I feel you're about to collapse and I'll have to call the WAAAAAA-mbulance. If you truly feel you deserve more than you're getting, write Disney and tell them you're not getting an AP anymore, and why. They could use a good laugh.

Woah! Calm down boy. You all are getting insane!:hammer: I will never stop buying tickets for Disney.If you read before, DVC also gets discounts, even a discount on the Annual Pass as well as the ride preview.

I have to correct myself though, you can stop being a DVC member if you sell you share. And according to DVC, you are saving tons of money and the vacation club basically "pays for itself." So technically, APs keep having to spend money, yet DVC will all come back to you in the end and you can pass it on to your children until 2049....

Or...this is not true, and you all or using this thread to justify why you have spent so much money. :veryconfu

 

[Tigger1988]

Woah! Calm down boy. You all are getting insane!:hammer: I will never stop buying tickets for Disney.If you read before, DVC also gets discounts, even a discount on the Annual Pass as well as the ride preview.

I have to correct myself though, you can stop being a DVC member if you sell you share. And according to DVC, you are saving tons of money and the vacation club basically "pays for itself." So technically, APs keep having to spend money, yet DVC will all come back to you in the end and you can pass it on to your children until 2049....

Or...this is not true, and you all or using this thread to justify why you have spent so much money. :veryconfu

Its easier to stop being an AP holder than it is to "stop" being a DVC holder. And yes, the DVC has payed for itself over and over (in my family's case, atleast). But it will take alot of years as an AP holder to equal up to what one pays for the DVC. If it bothers you so much that we get more perks then write Disney a letter, im sure you'd get a response telling you exactly why you don't get more discounts.

 

[SpaceRangrQueen]

So via this logic I'm sensing that what is really being said is that Disney needs to be giving more perks to 10day ticket holders than 1 day ticket holders. Yes, next week they are going to start allowing 10 day ticket holders to go ahead of one day ticket holders in line because, well they paid LESS to get into the park today, therefore they get more. Really. The question shouldn't be about being treated like second class citizens it should be about why either APs or DVCs are getting any extra perks at all. The perk is that you get into the park so cheap, or you get to stay on property cheap. There really doesn't need to be any more to it. Paying less for a ticket shouldn't entitle you to anything, so just count your blessings that it does, go to the parks and enjoy it, don't start a poll on the internet.

 

[Enderikari]

So via this logic I'm sensing that what is really being said is that Disney needs to be giving more perks to 10day ticket holders than 1 day ticket holders. Yes, next week they are going to start allowing 10 day ticket holders to go ahead of one day ticket holders in line because, well they paid LESS to get into the park today, therefore they get more. Really. The question shouldn't be about being treated like second class citizens it should be about why either APs or DVCs are getting any extra perks at all. The perk is that you get into the park so cheap, or you get to stay on property cheap. There really doesn't need to be any more to it. Paying less for a ticket shouldn't entitle you to anything, so just count your blessings that it does, go to the parks and enjoy it, don't start a poll on the internet.

Shoot, best perks go to Comp Tickets! They go first in line, then come the folks with the Touch of Magic tickets... Here for a convention? You're next!

 

[darthjohnny]

So via this logic I'm sensing that what is really being said is that Disney needs to be giving more perks to 10day ticket holders than 1 day ticket holders. Yes, next week they are going to start allowing 10 day ticket holders to go ahead of one day ticket holders in line because, well they paid LESS to get into the park today, therefore they get more. Really. The question shouldn't be about being treated like second class citizens it should be about why either APs or DVCs are getting any extra perks at all. The perk is that you get into the park so cheap, or you get to stay on property cheap. There really doesn't need to be any more to it. Paying less for a ticket shouldn't entitle you to anything, so just count your blessings that it does, go to the parks and enjoy it, don't start a poll on the internet.

That's ridiculous what your are saying! No...I'm saying APs should get more perks, not multi-day passes. Although Disneyland does treat ticket holders better, they give APs discounts in the park on purchases, and even park hoppers, they give a huge break in ticket price and I got $30 credit at ESPN zone for booking a 5 day park hopper, so using your logic, they do get better perks. If there is a family of at least four, they are paying over $1,000 a year to buy APs. That's still a lot no matter how you look at it. DVC do get discounts on tickets too. And you can use your points for hotels, or for the villas which are better than regular hotel rooms. They only give discount for APs when they need our business. We are like unwanted step children. I do not want more discounts, but just more overall perks, like bringing guests to ride previews. You are all putting down all the ticket holders because you spend money. But that is like saying if Bill Gates came to the park once in his lifetime, he deserves to be treated like the biggest Disney fan, but a normal person who has visited all their life is just considered another tourist, just because Gates has the money to spend.

 

[SpaceRangrQueen]

I know what you are saying. What I was saying was supposed to sound ridiculous because it's no different from what you are saying. You are buying a pass for longer than 10 days. You should be grateful you get attraction previews at all, not complaining because you can't bring a guest. The perk to having a ticket to get in for 365 days is just that, having a ticket to get in for 365 days. Oh and the free parking is a pretty sweet deal too, what with it costing $10 a day. So if you go 22 times (as my parents did on their last AP) then you have saved $220. AND you get to ride Everest before most everyone else?

Disneyland thrives mainly off of repeat guests i.e. annual passholders. WDW draws guests from all over the world and lives for first time guests. Disneyland needs to give perks and entice annual passholders because that is its bread and butter. It's bribery really.

I don't think anyone should be treated differently than anyone else. Everyone should be made to feel special. The short and the long of it is EVERYONE pays A LOT to go to Disney no matter what kind of ticket they hold or where they are staying and they all deserve to have the same experience.

 

[darthjohnny]

I don't think anyone should be treated differently than anyone else. Everyone should be made to feel special. The short and the long of it is EVERYONE pays A LOT to go to Disney no matter what kind of ticket they hold or where they are staying and they all deserve to have the same experience.

That is what I'm trying to say. We should be treated as equals.

 

[bruiser659]

I think a lot of people are missing a huge key difference:

• Annual Pass = Entry to the parks
• DVC = Ownership of accomodations....NO ENTRY to the parks

I'm a DVC owner and can say, being one has saved me a LOT of money on the accomodations over the years and has already paid for itself during my ownership. That's what it's designed to do. However, I have to either purchase tickets each visit or become an AP holder as many of you are to gain entry to the parks. Keep in mind that as a DVC member, I don't have to use my points to even go to WDW. I choose to because we are HUGE Disney fans, but we can go on a cruise or swap with other international programs. Thus, the discounts are not due to what we spend, but an attempt to get us to come to WDW and keep more money within the parks and resorts. We are property owners of facilities on WDW land and are offered incentives to spend money on-site. This is radically different.

darthjohny stated "But DVC members are not required to stay members. I believe they can stop being members if they want to stop paying the fees."
This is NOT correct. You are NOT paying for a club membership like a health club, you are actually making a real estate purchase. When I "joined" DVC, I actually bought into a specific percentage of a specified unit at Wilderness Lodge. I pay property tax, maintenance fees for upkeep, etc. What this means is:

• If I don't pay the fees, they can sue me.
• If I no longer want to go to WDW, I simply use my points (defined by the size of investment you make) for some other program.
• If I want out of DVC, I have to sell my real estate share.

So, when comparing AP to DVC, you (some, not all...I know) are basically comparing buying a park ticket to buying a condo. There is NO comparison here. You pay a few hundred dollars and get to go to the parks all year long, where as I paid a lot for the property and pay ongoing maintenance fees on the property and have a place to stay when I come down to WDW but do not have park tickets. I must purchase them seperately along with food, drink, souvenires, airfare, rental car/taxi, etc.

Thank god there is another true DVC member out there you sure saved me a bunch of typing.Hi DVC nieghbor,see you at the merry mixer.:wave:

 

[Magic Maker]

Some people do get caught in the heat of the moment and don't think it through before signing away all this money. And are not doing it because they plan to always come to Disney I know a person who was offered lifetime passes to Disney World for a small fee when DVC was just getting started and prices were cheap. But he turned it down because he thought "How many times will I keep coming to Disney?" He doesn't come to Disney as much as you would thing and ends up wasting his points.

We never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever offered lifetime passes, EVER.

We did offer theme park tickets for I think the first 10 years of a member's membership, and you had to become a member within the first 4 years of the membership. Everyone that bought during that time knew it was only an introductory, get DVC off the ground type offer.

Here's my two points.

1) No one should ever buy an AP because of the discounts. They should but an AP because they want to enter Disney parks at a lower rate. One of the reasons APs exist is to lessen the cost of admintance so that you will end up buy food and merchandise every so often.

2) No one should ever buy DVC because of the discounts (besides the amount of money that will be saved on accomodations). They should buy DVC because they want to stay on Disney property and travel the world and save money of their accomodations. That is the purpose of DVC for the Guest. One of the reasons DVC exists from a business standpoint is to enable families to come more often if they want, which means they will end up buying food and merchandise every so often.

AP holders and DVC members get very similar discounts. I think both are treated with respect.

What discounts do DVC members have that AP holders don't have that you want???

 

[darthjohnny]

We never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever offered lifetime passes, EVER.

It is not just the discounts I am talking about. For example, DVC gets those "Merry Mixers." APs don't get anything like that. We used to get those lounges that only lasted for a couple of months when Disney needed our business. You could be right about the lifetime passes, but how long have you worked with DVC? My friend swears by it, as he has been visiting Disney for many years, and bought in Old Key West when DVC very first started.