Are 3 dead CM's a sign that penny pinching TDO needs change?

[jakeman]

Disney doing things "on the cheap" is, in my opinion, the very root of almost all evil in the company. You can see it nearly everywhere. In the aforementioned maintenance neglect, resulting in injuries and deaths to guests and CMs alike. The almost inevitable lawsuits that result then cost more money than keeping up a more expensive maintenance schedule would have!

That same cheapness extends to other areas too. They attempt to create "leaner" (read cheaper) versions of attractions to save money and increase revenue. The result is guest complaints and anger because of the decreased quality (cough! JIYI! Cough!!). People know the difference between a Chevy and a Rolls .

Even the beloved Disney films suffer. I will never accept computer "animation" as an equal of true animation. Sure it cheaper and quicker, but it isn't art, it technology, and its not the same. Along those same lines, I remember a time when you would hear hit songs on the radio that came from Disney films. That doesn't seem to happen as often now. Coincidence? I think not.

Disney has made a reputation for being magic makers. Overwhelming guests with technical and cinematic wizardry. When you try to do those things cheaply, it becomes a sad caricature, like a shoddy made for TV movie.

It sounds like you have some sort of information that the recent deaths are money related?

If not, perhaps you and everyone else should just wait until the official invesitgation is complete.

Or not...we can keep pointing fingers and equating computer animation to human death...whatever...

 

[_Scar]

It all boils down to bad publicity and the average person will see another CM death on TV and think "man, what's going on over there" and will not investigate it themselves. Just bad publicity.

 

[PirateFrank]

While I don't find this this thread exploitive or offensive...I think it's a bit of a stretch to conclude that 2 freak accident/spills and the monorail crash were directly caused by penny-pinching or cutbacks.

The two 'spills' that resulted in the two most recent deaths could have happened in any economic environment. Unfortunately, bad timing seems to be stringing these events together.


As for the monorail crash, perhaps...but only if one can point to a time prior to the financial markets crash of last fall where there were more safegaurds or people in place to prevent such a crash from happening. I'm not sure that's the case, but I'm not wired in the way a great number of posters here are....so they would have to comment.

 

[DarthGrady]

It sounds like you have some sort of information that the recent deaths are money related?

If not, perhaps you and everyone else should just wait until the official invesitgation is complete.

Or not...we can keep pointing fingers and equating computer animation to human death...whatever...

I wasn't equating, I was simply predicating my argument that cost cutting has negative results across the board. The minor result being guest dissatisfaction, the extreme being injuries or death. Maybe I should have been more concise.

 

[jt04]

I wasn't equating, I was simply predicating my argument that cost cutting has negative results across the board. The minor result being guest dissatisfaction, the extreme being injuries or death. Maybe I should have been more concise.

Absurd. Make a valid point or drop it.

 

[jakeman]

I wasn't equating, I was simply predicating my argument that cost cutting has negative results across the board. The minor result being guest dissatisfaction, the extreme being injuries or death. Maybe I should have been more concise.

Then I'll repeat my initial question:

Do you have information definitively linking all three of these accidents to budget cuts?

This is a pretty serious accusation being floated around with no facts to support it.

 

[Timon]

Jay Rasulo joined Disney in the mid 80's as did a whole flock of former Marriott people pulled over by the Eisner/Wells team. Most of those people have left because they didn't fit in. No offense but I'm sure they ran Marriott brilliantly but a hotel chain is not the same a theme park and definitely not a Disney park.

In any organization the size of Disney there is always waste and savings to be had. Overtime continued cutting can reach the point of being destructive. Remove enough of the "Magic" and the customers start to notice, raise your prices without giving you more value and customers will start to notice. All these things are noted in detail throughout these discussion boards.

Changing training to save money usually means a poorer trained employee. We've noticed. Changing established procedures to save money can be dangerous. I'm just asking if this a pattern reflects the policies encouraged originally by Eisner and continued with his Eisner-ites.

The current remaining major Eisner-ite is Jay Rasulo. The man we can thank for holding the purse strings which strangled DLP's Disney Studio, DL's DCA and Hong Kong's DL. Most of his subordinates are "yes-people" ie: DL's Ed Grier and WDW's Meg Crofton.

My apologies to any offended readers I tend to look for improvements to problems so tragedies do not happen again. I realize at this point in time everything is pure speculation but I was thinking I'd ask for opinions.

 

[Timon]

Jay Rasulo joined Disney in the mid 80's as did a whole flock of former Marriott people pulled over by the Eisner/Wells team. Most of those people have left because they didn't fit in. No offense but I'm sure they ran Marriott brilliantly but a hotel chain is not the same a theme park and definitely not a Disney park.

In any organization the size of Disney there is always waste and savings to be had. Overtime continued cutting can reach the point of being destructive. Remove enough of the "Magic" and the customers start to notice, raise your prices without giving you more value and customers will start to notice. All these things are noted in detail throughout these discussion boards.

Changing training to save money usually means a poorer trained employee. We've noticed. Changing established procedures to save money can be dangerous. I'm just asking if this a pattern reflects the policies encouraged originally by Eisner and continued with his Eisner-ites.

The current remaining major Eisner-ite is Jay Rasulo. The man we can thank for holding the purse strings which strangled DLP's Disney Studio, DL's DCA and Hong Kong's DL. Most of his subordinates are "yes-people" ie: DL's Ed Grier and WDW's Meg Crofton.

My apologies to any offended readers I tend to look for improvements to problems so tragedies do not happen again. I realize at this point in time everything is pure speculation but I was thinking I'd ask for opinions.

 

[jt04]

Jay Rasulo joined Disney in the mid 80's as did a whole flock of former Marriott people pulled over by the Eisner/Wells team. Most of those people have left because they didn't fit in. No offense but I'm sure they ran Marriott brilliantly but a hotel chain is not the same a theme park and definitely not a Disney park.

In any organization the size of Disney there is always waste and savings to be had. Overtime continued cutting can reach the point of being destructive. Remove enough of the "Magic" and the customers start to notice, raise your prices without giving you more value and customers will start to notice. All these things are noted in detail throughout these discussion boards.

Changing training to save money usually means a poorer trained employee. We've noticed. Changing established procedures to save money can be dangerous. I'm just asking if this a pattern reflects the policies encouraged originally by Eisner and continued with his Eisner-ites.

The current remaining major Eisner-ite is Jay Rasulo. The man we can thank for holding the purse strings which strangled DLP's Disney Studio, DL's DCA and Hong Kong's DL. Most of his subordinates are "yes-people" ie: DL's Ed Grier and WDW's Meg Crofton.

My apologies to any offended readers I tend to look for improvements to problems so tragedies do not happen again. I realize at this point in time everything is pure speculation but I was thinking I'd ask for opinions.

There is an unfair implication in the thread title. Nothing has connected the terrible events to anything specific much less any individual or individuals. And it is exploitive to try to make that point. Someday you and others will realize that. How would you feel if you were either a grieving family member or one of the people you implicate? A little empathy is all that is being asked for from you and others since sympathy seems to be lacking from so many.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Personally, I don't find this thread, or the question to be insensitive, offensive nor exploitive in nature. The OP has posted a fair question. And, it's one that WDW/TDO and Disney management should be seriously asking themselves and investigating in order to prevent another tragic death. However, while I see it as a fair question, I don't know that any of us here really have enough factual information to ascertain whether or not this is in fact the case. The two fatalities this month, appear to be legitimate, unfortunate and unavoidable accidents regardless of budget or personnel cuts.

Let the discussion continue, but please be sensitive to the fact that lives have been lost here. I'm just guessing that if I'm a family member, I'm asking the same question, or at the least, my lawyer(s) would be.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

TDO needs change and not just because of the deaths.





In before the lock!:lookaroun

 

[DarthGrady]

Then I'll repeat my initial question:

Do you have information definitively linking all three of these accidents to budget cuts?

This is a pretty serious accusation being floated around with no facts to support it.

No. Not specifically regarding Disney and these deaths. None of us do since the findings have not yet been released. This is all simple, opinionated debate at this point.

I base my opinion on my experience with other entities (not necessarily in the entertainment industry) that have tried to cut costs by reducing maintenance, training, staff, etc. It nearly always has negative results.

We'll see in the near future once the investigations are concluded. If they are found to be unavoidable accidents, then I will gladly admit that my opinion is wrong. It is my strong hope that these deaths are not a result of improper management.

 

[Dabeast]

Penny pinching, bad management,or both?? Take what I say with a grain of salt, as all I know about these situations is what I've read on the internet. Someone made a decision, to run the monorail without the switch control board being monitored at all times.Thus allowing that person to roam the property, performing other functions, as well as directing the monorails around the rail...without looking at a screen to tell him/her where the trains actually are. Did Disney Mgmt. do this to save Money??? In my opinion, that accident would not have happened if someone had been looking at a board, showing exactly where the monorails were. If what other posters are saying is true, that the control board is not left unattended now, then did Disney realize this was a mistake? Or when things cool down again, will they go back to the old way of leaving this post unattended?? If this case should go to court, this is the way it will go...
Lawyer for Austin's family to Disney rep. on the stand: "Was the switch control board left unattended on the night in question"?
Disney Rep: "yes"
Lawyer: Is that same control board now monitored 24 hrs a day?
Disney Rep: "yes"
Lawyer: "why"?
Disney Rep: "Because we found it to be unsafe to run the monorail without someone monitoring the system".
Lawyer: "Your Honor, I rest my case"
The other incidents do not seem to have anything to do with belt tightening, but running a monorail that is not monitored with a human looking at a screen, could be considered a liability..

 

[_Scar]

TDO needs change and not just because of the deaths.





In before the lock!:lookaroun

This won't be locked. :hammer:

 

[takeleus]

I would like to ask the group a question!

How many of you can with the stroke of a pen spend millions of dollars and hold the future of so many employees in your hands?

As a senior level manager of a large flooring company I can say that I can.

Here is my take as compared to decisions I make daily to keep a company afloat is a bad marketplace.

As managers we try to cut cost (Profit & Loss), keep as much cash on hand as possible, and provide the same level of service on reduced profit margins. Do we make bad decisions, you bet. And in some companies cases we delegate out decisions by telling our people cut cost or cut people. And in the end we do both. Some of your comments infer that Disney is an entertainment venue that should have unlimited resources and never be forced to scale back its offering due to a weak economy. The truth is Disney is a business like any other with stock holders and investors that still want a rate of return on their money even in a sluggish economy. We as managers want our facilities to be automated so we can reduce head counts and sometime that is a great idea, but there are times this places a small price on the life of a human. I hear people complain about having to work long shifts, but the truth is it is cheaper to pay you overtime than to have another person on the payroll. The reality is TDO needs to do what ever possible to cut cost while trying to maintain the current level of service. If fluff must be cut then cut it for the good of the company. It really shows some peoples lack of understanding of business by the comments that Disney should waste money in tough times to keep things at a booming economy level. Lets all say this aloud, Disney is not here for you to micromanage as guests they are here to make money. And in tough times you make tough decisions for the benefit of the company.

So before I get blasted, I do not believe that you cut cost at the expense of human life but again I do not see how these deaths could have been any different in a strong economy.

 

[TOTGuy]

How does someone tripping/rolling, landing on their neck, and dying have anything to do with budget cuts? Disney doesn't train people to be stunt performers, you have to have experience just to audition. Stop creating a witch hunt. I am offended when you think that cuts in budgets affect training quality in safety-related roles. As a Disney trainer at Soarin' I was never pressured to pass someone to prevent them having to take an extra day. If I had been I was to report them to my training manager and there would be hell to pay. We had the power to fail managers in attractions during their re-certs if they couldn't cut it. And there was no room for them to put pressure on us to pass them. If we would be comfortable working alongside someone then we wouldn't pass them. Simple as that. Monorail=Tragic Sequence of events, Performers=Tragic Accidents, that's it. Stop digging around for another reason to skewer TDO, there are enough already.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Accidents of this nature...I wouldn't think it's money related. If it involved the failure of one's surroundings or equipment...Then, yes, I could see it.

 

[WDW Monorail]

Penny pinching, bad management,or both?? Take what I say with a grain of salt, as all I know about these situations is what I've read on the internet. Someone made a decision, to run the monorail without the switch control board being monitored at all times.Thus allowing that person to roam the property, performing other functions, as well as directing the monorails around the rail...without looking at a screen to tell him/her where the trains actually are. Did Disney Mgmt. do this to save Money??? In my opinion, that accident would not have happened if someone had been looking at a board, showing exactly where the monorails were. If what other posters are saying is true, that the control board is not left unattended now, then did Disney realize this was a mistake? Or when things cool down again, will they go back to the old way of leaving this post unattended?? If this case should go to court, this is the way it will go...
Lawyer for Austin's family to Disney rep. on the stand: "Was the switch control board left unattended on the night in question"?
Disney Rep: "yes"
Lawyer: Is that same control board now monitored 24 hrs a day?
Disney Rep: "yes"
Lawyer: "why"?
Disney Rep: "Because we found it to be unsafe to run the monorail without someone monitoring the system".
Lawyer: "Your Honor, I rest my case"
The other incidents do not seem to have anything to do with belt tightening, but running a monorail that is not monitored with a human looking at a screen, could be considered a liability..

The "board" does not tell one where all trains are. As far as I know, the occupancy of Central was never required. Should it be now, I don't think so except for in certain cases.

Timon, your claim is by far the most absurd I have ever read.

 

[Dabeast]

The "board" does not tell one where all trains are. As far as I know, the occupancy of Central was never required. Should it be now, I don't think so except for in certain cases.

Sorry, I thought I read in one of the post back when this first happened, that if someone were in "central", they would have known the location of both monorails. If I am wrong, I offer an apology. Do you know if central is manned at all times now?...and if not needed in all cases, why start now?

 

[LaughingGravy]

The truth is Disney is a business like any other with stock holders and investors that still want a rate of return on their money even in a sluggish economy. ... The reality is TDO needs to do what ever possible to cut cost while trying to maintain the current level of service. If fluff must be cut then cut it for the good of the company.

So before I get blasted, I do not believe that you cut cost at the expense of human life but again I do not see how these deaths could have been any different in a strong economy.

The problem that I have is that of stock holders and investors wanting or expecting a rate of return even in a sluggish economy and them getting it at the expense of others who are actually working. Yes, I said actually working.

Gee, the stockholders are expecting X return this quarter based on predictions and promises made. We'd better cut some staff to make sure that happens.
If it is determined that someone's position of monitoring the monorails, large, heavy and easily potentially dangerous moving objects, was eliminated if even for a minute ( or whatever the time it takes to miss a switch) while the stock dividends remained constant or increased, then there is something wrong.