APs getting screwed?

[AEfx]

Thank you I was about to say the same, I keep getting the AP monitor claiming magic bands are coming to AP's meaning you should be able to reserve fastpasses however long in advance. Remember we are not the target demographic Disney wants, which is beyond stupid. Look at how Disneyland does their business model with AP's, if WDW were to do half of what they do they would see a huge increase, not that the community isn't there. Everywhere I go in orlando all I see is the WDW passholder sticker at least 4 times in each parking lot.

While I agree with the overall sentiment, expecting AP's at WDW to ever be more than a shadow of Disneyland is wholly unrealistic. The fact of the matter is, many millions more people live within 3-hours of Disneyland than do WDW. Nearly as many people live in the Los Angeles area than the entire state of Florida.

That said, in many ways Disney has reduced the passholder experience. At least mine personally, as I no longer find the need to keep one. For a good number of years I did, even though I live over 1200 miles away. They have added here and there (the merchandise discounts are a relatively new thing), but overall the cost effectiveness has gone down, and the price gone up (just like regular tickets).

Just for fun, I went to the Disney website right now and my jaw dropped - I can't believe an AP is $650 now. Disney has lost thousands of dollars a year from me since I don't buy one anymore. I only go every few years now - when I used to go 3-4 times a year, minimum. So I'm not spending any money there at all most of the time now.

Unfortunately, the truth is - Disney doesn't much care. I'm sure their studies show that, overall, we spend less there than everyone else on the things they really care about - merchandise, food, and lodging. People like me who spent more on that stuff because I'm not a "local" are few and far between - the locals don't spend nearly as much - particularly on food and lodging. If you are local, there is much more chance that you eat like one meal on a typical Disney day - it's easier to eat when you get home or before you leave, not to mention way way much cheaper. Often, like Disneyland finds I am sure, AP's for locals end up being babysitting services for local kids or, worst of all in perception, a hang out for teenagers who aren't spending any money and are perceived to be up to trouble more often than the average guest.

So I may not like it, but the truth is - as far as business goes - there is little reason to court the locals because admission cost is really a small portion of what Disney gets in revenue from most other guests who remain captive, and the folks like me who use it for multi=trip admission are few and far between.

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling AP's that expect to get a Magic Band and have unlimited access to the FP+ system (or the same access that resort guests have) are going to be sorely disappointed. All Disney has said is that they will get bands to AP holders - but I have a feeling they are only going to be admission media and you won't get true FP+ access unless you are staying at the resorts, or if they do, it will somehow be a super-slimmed down version. I just don't see them doing it.

 

[NearTheEars]

Unfortunately, the truth is - Disney doesn't much care. I'm sure their studies show that, overall, we spend less there than everyone else on the things they really care about - merchandise, food, and lodging.

This is very true. As a local, we often eat on the way or head over to 192 between hopping parks. We do buy some merchandise here and there and at least 1 Coke. But aside from the $100 up front and $32 each month we pay for the Fla. resident pass, they don't get that much out of us.

I'd estimate we've spent at least 20 days at WDW since September, often 2 parks per day. So for us, we've gotten a lot out if the pass in just a few months.

That said, I am getting a little concerned about being left hanging here. I know we will eventually get access to FP+ but if we can't book in advance I'll be sad.

Not sad enough to not renew next year, but pretty disappointed.

 

[Sped2424]

So what kind of "perks" are worth it?

Higher discount rates for merchandise and hotel stays, throw in some exclusive annual passholder events just like Disneyland throws, little things here and there to convince someone that its far more than just a repeat ticket and free parking, but an experience/benefit in itself.

 

[MissM]

Not too long ago, they used to do little events and perks for AP's like giving out things like free Dumbo lithos or a calendar with Disney art. They had special Passholder only merchandise you could buy. (Pins, hats, shirts, etc.) Or, special screenings of a movie or early entry for new rides and such. And before that, they had AP lounges with a few couches and some soda. Such minor things but those kinds of things are HUGE goodwill gestures. They say, "we appreciate you" and generally speaking, that's all someone really wants. Disney doesn't even need to really appreciate us, they just have to make us believe they do. But that seems like it's just too much work these days and we're not even worth the effort.

Taking AP's for granted is a mistake. There may not be as many millions as in Disneyland, but if you've seen the sheer numbers that turned up for those special events or giveaways, there are a LOT more than you might think.

A Passholder is a gift: loyal fans who are going to not only going to keep coming back because they're invested in the parks (each visit a chance to get more money out of them and less resources since many of us won't bother getting in long lines for attractions knowing we can just come back another day), but because they're also built-in brand ambassadors. They talk Disney, share Disney things with their friends, and provide all kinds of free social media interaction. Because a loyal fan eats up all kinds of warm, fuzzy things related to the park and shares them with others.

I don't know why WDW is so anti-AP these days. It makes no sense logically, or from a marketing or public relations point of view. But ing off your most ardent supporters is bad business no matter how you try to spin it. And excluding those supporters from accessing the same attraction experience as a resort guest is a sure fire way to make more former Passholders. After years and years of being one myself, I don't see us renewing this August again with the way things are going right now. And that's pretty darn sad.

 

[disney4life2008]

The experience you're describing of having access to FP+ advance res. after a resort stay has been the case since somewhere around September. However Disney has made absolutely no communication as to what AP's should expect from FP+ in the future other than the vague statements posted on the website last spring (still there today and not updated). We have no idea if this is just a software bug they haven't fixed yet, or if it's what we'll experience. We also don't know if this is the experience, when we will actually get that privilege. I actually saw a report today from a guest stating that a FP+ CM told them AP's would not be activated until late 2014.

And this is also my point. I have been consistently purchasing AP since I have been financially able to. Even if I travel to disney once a year I know having it makes me feel VIP. But once my current pass expires the likelihood of me renewing is low. I see no purpose because I have no idea how we will be treated in the coming year. In years past I knew that I could come and go as I pleased in the parks, tour as quick and as fast as I wanted, obtain paper FP and enjoy my time. While I have enjoyed playing on the MM+ site - only picking 3 selections is terrible and from the app I see extremely high wait times for attractions that normally is walk on.

 

[donsullivan]

I think the underlying issue here is the fact that Disney is refusing to provide an update on what's going on and what (if anything) we should expect. They communicated back in the Spring that we should expect participation 'later this year' but since that point there has been no communication other than 'still testing' on what AP eligibility would (or would not) be and when it would be implemented.

It would go a long way for them to stop hiding behind the 'testing' story and just tell us what they are planning and when it will become effective. At that point everyone can make a decision based on whether they like (or dislike) how it is going to play out.

That vacuum of information from Disney has resulted in a mountain of random speculation all over the internet on how it will play out but it's is all just that, speculation and rumor. I do not think it unreasonable to request that Disney communicate what (if any) privilege will be available Passholders and when it will become effective.

They've just about finished the rollout with the final removal of KTTW cards that can use legacy FP by EOM and the shutdown of legacy FP at AK. They know what they are going to do but for some reason (I fear a negative one) are refusing to update on their plans and schedule for Passholders.

 

[donsullivan]

.......

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling AP's that expect to get a Magic Band and have unlimited access to the FP+ system (or the same access that resort guests have) are going to be sorely disappointed. All Disney has said is that they will get bands to AP holders - but I have a feeling they are only going to be admission media and you won't get true FP+ access unless you are staying at the resorts, or if they do, it will somehow be a super-slimmed down version. I just don't see them doing it.

I'm certainly one who does not think it's even remotely reasonable for a Passholder to expect unlimited FP+ reservation access. That can easily be constrained by limiting the number of them you can get per interval of time such as max of X per quarter. For those worried about AP's reserving them all and then not using, that can easily be remedied by having your no-shows still decrement from your 'quarterly' eligibility. Loosing unused ones will quickly resolve any issue with folks abusing their eligibility and booking for every day. The reality is that most local Passholders are only there on weekends anyway so the impact days of this are limited as well.

 

[CohibaMan]

Why should APs have anything less than three FP+ reservations per day just like everyone else? Who is really going to go to the trouble of going online and making reservations every day of the week and then not show up? If someone does that, they REALLY have too much free time and obviously don't work or live in the real world. But if Disney is worried about APs booking FPs and then no-showing, all they have to do is implement a set number per month/quarter/year. Possibly an even easier solution would be monitoring when your magic band is scanned at the gate. If you don't scan into the park an hour or two before the scheduled FP, POOF... it's gone?

Or APs are not allowed to make FP choices more than a week in advance. That might be my best idea yet!

 

[AEfx]

I don't know why WDW is so anti-AP these days. It makes no sense logically, or from a marketing or public relations point of view. But ing off your most ardent supporters is bad business no matter how you try to spin it. And excluding those supporters from accessing the same attraction experience as a resort guest is a sure fire way to make more former Passholders. After years and years of being one myself, I don't see us renewing this August again with the way things are going right now. And that's pretty darn sad.

While I really absolutely agree with your sentiment - I would be willing to guess that if WDW thought they could, they would do away with the passholder system completely. It would be press-worthy to attempt, though, and it would make them in-congruent with other Disney parks - those are the only reasons they haven't, IMO - they are trying to price it out of range, though. I quit once it got over $500 - but now that it's $650...and it's only been a few seasons since it broke $500 (I want to say the last time I did it - 2011 - it was like $515 with tax).

At WDW, Disney just isn't in the business of selling admission tickets. They are in the business of selling vacation packages. Passholders are the least likely to buy a vacation package - I don't even think they let you do the 1-day pass thing anymore, do they? At most we might book a discounted room-only reservation - though I personally know I stopped doing that years before I stopped having an AP - it's just a lot cheaper to stay elsewhere and I like having my own vehicle anyway (I could be from my off-site hotel to walking into a park quicker than if I had stayed on-property and waited for a bus).

Unfortunately, I don't think they recognize the value of having us as "ambassadors" - which I wholly agree with you is exactly what happens - but it's intangible to them, so they don't even acknowledge it. They are only interested in those folks that go to the website and book a $3000-4000 dollar vacation package.

It's definitely something I think Universal does better than WDW - there, you feel like a valued guest as a passholder. Discounts everywhere - even fast food (heck, they even ask you most places if you are a passholder even if you haven't mentioned it yet). The different levels are great as well - it's funny, because at nearly $400 their premium annual pass feels like a lot more value than a WDW pass - less parks, of course, but - free valet parking each visit (which is awesome at Universal, I often pay for it anyway because it's so convenient), free HHN ticket, free express pass at 4PM, and many other discounts - it feels like a huge value even at that price (especially since Universal doesn't restrict monthly payment passes to FL residents).

I used to love being a Passholder, even living as far away as I do it was so great to be able to get a cheap plane ticket at the last minute or just drive down (I had it down to about 22 hours) and know I could arrive and just walk in. But Disney made it pretty clear with the price increases and other things that I just wasn't the market they are looking for. On the bright side, they have added or changed so little, that I haven't missed a whole lot, either, LOL.

 

[AEfx]

Why should APs have anything less than three FP+ reservations per day just like everyone else?

It would be awesome if they did, but I think most of us just don't see Disney extending the same privileges to what amounts to a discounted admission ticket as they do someone who would have to spend 365 days staying in their very profitable resorts to be entitled to.

 

[Killnme]

My family and I were in the parks over the past few days and I said to my wife "we might have to cave and stay at an All-Star resort just to get the bands". The reason I say cave is I remember getting the All-Star resorts and Pop from $35 to $50 a night and now we can't get it for under a $100.

I keep trying to hold out but who knows. I am really up in the air right now about renewing or not renewing.

On a side note when we were in the parks with some friends that have the bands, my nine year old daughter borrowed their daughter's (who is 5) band to ride Star Tours and the next day borrowed the husband's band to ride Haunted Mansion. None of the CMs batted an eye at the info. So how does that help with Disney Data collection on Magic Bands?

 

[Foolish Mortal]

I don't know why WDW is so anti-AP these days. It makes no sense logically, or from a marketing or public relations point of view. But ing off your most ardent supporters is bad business no matter how you try to spin it. And excluding those supporters from accessing the same attraction experience as a resort guest is a sure fire way to make more former Passholders. After years and years of being one myself, I don't see us renewing this August again with the way things are going right now. And that's pretty darn sad.

In my opinion because TDO even Glendale is so arrogant when it comes to WDW that they know even if all AP's canceled they have enough vacationers/tour groups coming in they dont need the AP's the way DL does.

And I was extremely disappointed they didnt do AP pins at Studios in 13 or the Christmas ornament at Epcot

 

[armyfamilyof5]

We didn't renew our APs this year due to the FP issues. We like to arrive by rope drop, ride a ride, get a FP for later, go ride another ride or two or see a show, then back to collect another FP, use the one we have and then eat lunch, usually by the time we've done all this the second FP has matured and we then use it as our last ride and out by 1 or 2 PM. We got Uni passes for this year and have yet to collect them and go to the park, will probably do it later this month or next month. I will miss Disney but without a fastpass system our enjoyment would be greatly reduced.

 

[Glasgow]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but do you think wdw is going to cater to resort guests spending 5-10k a year or AP holders spending ~1-2k or those staying offsite? It's the business model .. Obviously they are not hurting for guests, as you can see from the constant crowds. To be honest, I think ignoring the AP holders is more of a strategy of reducing less lucrative guests .. call it crowd control, if you will. Not saying I agree or anything, just my take on the situation.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

If everything at WDW wasn't so overpriced maybe AP holders would be more willing to go ahead and eat in the parks, but given the pricing structure it doesn't make sense to eat in the parks if you are going to pass 1000 better and cheaper restaurants on their way home.

 

[EOD K9]

My question is this, Who isn't getting screwed?

 

[draybook]

My question is this, Who isn't getting screwed?

According to the report I posted, Bob Iger.......

 

[EOD K9]

According to the report I posted, Bob Iger.......

Touche. Besides him though, what little people aren't getting screwed?

 

[luv]

When I got my plastic AP last year, they volunteered the info that we'd be getting bands. They didn't say when (I asked, they dodged), but they were very up and perky about it.

Disney really doesn't appreciate repeat visitors, but it goes for both local and tourists. You could fly in four times a year, stay in their hotels, buy their stuff and eat their food...they still wouldn't give you any incentive to return.

They really believe that everyone will just keep coming, no matter how much they let things slide, no matter how expensive they make it.

 

[Goofnut1980]

In November, I was a passholder, my family was not. What a headache trying to get everyone the same FastPass times.

Agreed! It was a complete pain in the a$$... We had to do this for December.. We have PAP and the in-laws purchased Military Tickets at their base and was a ticket you had to swap for a real ticket.. We couldn't make FP reservations because their tickets were not "active".. what... the... heck... Anyone associated with MM+ should probably be in the budget cuts for 2014 and free up some money to do something that would actually create value...

The band was cool, but didn't do anything "new" my old Key to the World couldn't do...