Apple Pay to be available at Walt Disney World by end of the year

[Voxel]

That has to depend on many things. When I had my Galaxy, I used NFC among friends all the time. But when I switched to the Moto X, I use it for tap to pay all the time.
I guess I'm lucky to live where I do because most places I frequent already had paypass machines. But Apple finally getting in the game will add to the number of vendors and improve the feature even more for all phones.

Agreed, Apple understands vendors, you have to court vendors they won't come to you. Apple does this very well, I also thing the unified platform under one company gives them this advantage. Samsung, moto, HTC don't want to pay vendors to come to them, and Google is more of a God watching over giving them the software but not helping with the expansion so that the tools can be useful in the realworld.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I was meaning more of bringing Apple Pay to Android

We already have several digital wallet solutions out there.. Google.. Paypal.. Bitcoin.. Square.. etc

It's interesting to see apple didn't simultaneously announce a POS solution.. which would allow businesses to ACCEPT Apple Pay... and take the problem on from both sides.

They wouldn't be able to use it on Android, since it requires fingerprint authentication, and I cannot see Apple licensing the tech to any other company for their TouchID system. It all works together with the secure enclave in the processor.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't think you are going to see ApplePay on Android because too much of what makes it up is actually within the hardware and software on the phone/watch.

The way it's pitched - that doesn't mean that is the only way the data can be secured. The protection in the 'token' isn't what defines how the whole system interacts. Just as we have replaced hardware tokens with software... if you are willing to alter your requirements you can get the same output.

It's about the way they are encrypting the credit cards in custom silicon and storing that data on the phone and the fingerprint sensor they have as part of the authorization mechanism. All of that is what they did to get the payment card industry to buy off on supporting their solution.

It's how they have convinced the banks to give them a discount and treat it as card present (http://bankinnovation.net/2014/09/apple-said-to-negotiate-deep-payments-discounts-from-big-banks/) but not necessarily what would be needed to buy into the concept.

That's not something they are likely to license to anyone else as they would consider it a competitive advantage

Yes, but it's a system that relies upon critical mass... it's not just a stand-alone system that will thrive if just your own users use it. Your users will be constrained by market adoption.

I don't see Apple getting into the POS business, it's not what they do. They are just providing an API in the OS that allows someone who develops a POS to support ApplePay.

Apple is in the making money business. Plus its about ensuring their model's adoption.

 

[Bob]

They wouldn't be able to use it on Android, since it requires fingerprint authentication, and I cannot see Apple licensing the tech to any other company for their TouchID system. It all works together with the secure enclave in the processor.

Licensing from Apple would not be needed by other vendors. See the Motorola Atrix, which came out two years before the 5S.

 

[Voxel]

Licensing from Apple would not be needed by other vendors. See the Motorola Atrix, which came out two years before the 5S.

Exactly, just a rebuild of the API to correspond with the Various Android API's

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Ultimately the biggest issue with Android, They create wonderful technology and software but the fragmentation with companies using it creates a massive gap in how that technology is use in the real world. NFC is big example of it. Early Samsung phones could transmit information through NFC but only to other Samsung's not HTC or Moto. I would blame google on not getting NFC out there. Apple has and had a better interaction with businesses getting their tech out there. Best Buy is testing (And implementing) sales through iPhones, alone with jcp and a few other retailer. Android could easily do that, but no company goes after it. Instead they are waiting for retailers to come to them, which won't happen.

I think that had to do with Samsung's touchwiz software. Google ask Samsung to cut back on the touchwiz software recently because it was holding them back from making changes & improvements to Android.

I wouldn't say "Ultimately the biggest issue with Android, They create wonderful technology and software but the fragmentation with companies using it creates a massive gap in how that technology is use in the real world."

Android doesn't do that. The manufacturers do. Samsung, HTC, LG, Moto, and other manufacturers aren't getting together and deciding what to do with their phones next. Many times one of them will throw out a feature and others then follow a year or two later. While Apple has the advantage of being the only decision makers on what IOS does.

That will always be a problem for android.. they have to make a system that can accommodate manufacturers doing their own thing. The one thing that makes Android great (being available under so many different phone companies) is the one thing that holds them back too.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Agreed, Apple understands vendors, you have to court vendors they won't come to you. Apple does this very well, I also thing the unified platform under one company gives them this advantage. Samsung, moto, HTC don't want to pay vendors to come to them, and Google is more of a God watching over giving them the software but not helping with the expansion so that the tools can be useful in the realworld.

Well services like Google Wallet didn't go to manufacturers, they went to Mastercard. So it became a thing of, who evers accepts mastercard, accepts google wallet.
And Isis (softcard), idk what the deal with them was.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

They wouldn't be able to use it on Android, since it requires fingerprint authentication, and I cannot see Apple licensing the tech to any other company for their TouchID system. It all works together with the secure enclave in the processor.

Aren't these new system ApplePay systems, the same as paypass already in place?
If so, Android & Windows wouldn't need to get ApplePay, the would continue to use Google Wallet & Softcard.
But the HTC ONE does have a fingerprint scanner though, so they could create their own version of it probably.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Aren't these new system ApplePay systems, the same as paypass already in place?
If so, Android & Windows wouldn't need to get ApplePay, the would continue to use Google Wallet & Softcard.
But the HTC ONE does have a fingerprint scanner though, so they could create their own version of it probably.

Same but not the same. The current systems actually pass your card number over the system, and you use a pin. The vendor retains your CC information on their systems. With the Apple system, you scan your CC with your iPhone, verify with the bank that it is actually yours (they did NOT explain how this is going to work), and then a token is stored in the encrypted secure enclave of the processor on your iPhone. Your CC is NOT stored on the phone at all. When you want to make a payment, you use your fingerprint via the TouchID to authorize the transaction. The token is used to create a one-time code sent to the bank. The vendor never sees your CC or your pin. Even if the transaction is caught on the wire, the code can only be used for that one transaction and no others. That is the beauty of the system. Much more secure than anything we have at the present time.

Could the Android family do all of this. Absolutely. But they would need to spend millions of dollars to develop the same sort of system, and work with the banks and CC processors to make it work. Will they? Well, they haven't up until now, so who knows if they will in the future.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Agreed, Apple understands vendors, you have to court vendors they won't come to you. Apple does this very well, I also thing the unified platform under one company gives them this advantage. Samsung, moto, HTC don't want to pay vendors to come to them, and Google is more of a God watching over giving them the software but not helping with the expansion so that the tools can be useful in the realworld.

I feel like there isn't much Google can do.
Samsung, Moto, LG, HTC aren't going to sit down together and plan things out. They are each others competitors. The fact that the 2013 Note 3 didn't have the ability for tap to pay was kinda sad when you saw that androids from 2011 had.
Google didn't even promote Wallet and Verizon blocked tap to pay from their phones because they said it was unsafe. So it never stood a chance really.

Even though I use wallet everyday, I think ApplePay is better executed and I'm hoping Google Wallet wakes up and start upgrading their app.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Same but not the same. The current systems actually pass your card number over the system, and you use a pin. The vendor retains your CC information on their systems. With the Apple system, you scan your CC with your iPhone, verify with the bank that it is actually yours (they did NOT explain how this is going to work), and then a token is stored in the encrypted secure enclave of the processor on your iPhone. Your CC is NOT stored on the phone at all. When you want to make a payment, you use your fingerprint via the TouchID to authorize the transaction. The token is used to create a one-time code sent to the bank. The vendor never sees your CC or your pin. Even if the transaction is caught on the wire, the code can only be used for that one transaction and no others. That is the beauty of the system. Much more secure than anything we have at the present time.

Could the Android family do all of this. Absolutely. But they would need to spend millions of dollars to develop the same sort of system, and work with the banks and CC processors to make it work. Will they? Well, they haven't up until now, so who knows if they will in the future.

I'm curious how not sharing your CC number with merchants will work when it is time for refunds?

When I ask about the tech being the same, I mean at the terminal, not the way its handled.
As long as the terminal handles nfc the same, neither Android or Windows would need to alter want they already do, wouldn't cost them anything right?
With many international areas outside of the US already using contactless payments, many cards are going contactless in the next couple years, & android os running on 85% of worldwide phones. Wouldn't it benefit businesses to make a system that works with all phones/cards using tap to pay? Not just Apple?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I'm curious how not sharing your CC number with merchants will work when it is time for refunds?

When I ask about the tech being the same, I mean at the terminal, not the way its handled.
As long as the terminal handles nfc the same, neither Android or Windows would need to alter want they already do, wouldn't cost them anything right?
With many international areas outside of the US already using contactless payments, many cards are going contactless in the next couple years, & android os running on 85% of worldwide phones. Wouldn't it benefit businesses to make a system that works with all phones/cards using tap to pay? Not just Apple?

Well, first off, that 85% is really a stretch. Most of that number (well, I think most of it is made up, since only Apple reports sold numbers, and the rest report shipped, and the media is making up a lot of "others", but I don't want to start THAT argument) is for phones that are not top tier phones with NFC in them.

The bank still has the transaction, so there shouldn't be an issue with a refund.

It doesn't have to just benefit the business, but the banks and CC processors as well. So why haven't they embraced it before now? Seems like it would have been a no-brainer, but according to your earlier post, none of the major banks, and only MC supports Google Wallet? Why is that? I think the main reason is a lack of security, but who knows. Maybe Google just hasn't taken the time to work with them.

 

[flynnibus]

The vendor never sees your CC or your pin. Even if the transaction is caught on the wire, the code can only be used for that one transaction and no others. That is the beauty of the system. Much more secure than anything we have at the present time.

It's basically the same thing as Chip+PIN except replace PIN with the finger scanner. It's way more secure than swipe+sign... but not radically different than what the rest of the world has already moved to.

Apple's play is.. they register a digital token/seed with the CC company.. vs having to use the physical smartchip from the existing card the existing chip+pin system uses. So Apple can effectively 'digitize' your cards and keep them in your digital wallet..

Apple is basically acting like a 'second copy of your card' by registering another chip for your card. But instead of a physical card, it's a digital token/seed stored securely in the phone... unlocked by a biometric instead of a PIN.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It doesn't have to just benefit the business, but the banks and CC processors as well. So why haven't they embraced it before now? Seems like it would have been a no-brainer, but according to your earlier post, none of the major banks, and only MC supports Google Wallet? Why is that? I think the main reason is a lack of security, but who knows. Maybe Google just hasn't taken the time to work with them.

One of the biggest hurdles has been merchants. Those terminals cost money and business owners are not interested in replacing them just because some people have a new method of payment. There merchants have not been interested in buying new equipment when for them, what they have works just fine. The various banks and card companies have not been interested in footing the bill for upgrading all of that equipment out there.

 

[flynnibus]

One of the biggest hurdles has been merchants. Those terminals cost money and business owners are not interested in replacing them just because some people have a new method of payment. There merchants have not been interested in buying new equipment when for them, what they have works just fine. The banks have not been interested in footing the bill for upgrading all of that equipment out there.

Yup.. but that major hurdle was finally eclipsed after the Target breach and lit enough of a fire for them to set the Oct 2015 date as the line in the sand over liability changes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What happens Oct 15th?

Merchants still only swiping cards will become financially liable for fraudulent charges.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Well, first off, that 85% is really a stretch. Most of that number (well, I think most of it is made up, since only Apple reports sold numbers, and the rest report shipped, and the media is making up a lot of "others", but I don't want to start THAT argument) is for phones that are not top tier phones with NFC in them.

The bank still has the transaction, so there shouldn't be an issue with a refund.

It doesn't have to just benefit the business, but the banks and CC processors as well. So why haven't they embraced it before now? Seems like it would have been a no-brainer, but according to your earlier post, none of the major banks, and only MC supports Google Wallet? Why is that? I think the main reason is a lack of security, but who knows. Maybe Google just hasn't taken the time to work with them.

It is 85% of phones shipped. Apple has 13% of phones shipped.
Still impressive considering they only make one phone vs the hundreds of androids on the market.
Apple is number two in phone sales worldwide behind Samsung.

I only ask about the refund because I know many retailers need the CC number to issue refunds. But I'm sure it will work out some how.

I have said in previous post why mobile NFC payments haven't taken off, so I won't repeat it.

You can use any bank you'd like with google Wallet.
Google wallet then assigns you a Mastercard number. That is what retailers see. They don't see your CC through Google Wallet. You're always required to enter a pin number to access your wallet or its funds. But your right, Google didn't work with individual vendors. You can only use Google wallet where MasterCard is accepted. But you can have any Visa, Amex, etc linked to pay for what you buy.

 

[glimmerman76]

The point really is that other companies have thrown in NFC chips in phones to make it look good on a Spec sheet, but they did not do the difficult part - thrashing out the deals with banks and merchants to actually make it work in the real world. Apple on the other hand have done just that.

now you do realize that all those places that apple had on there little slid show already take contactless payments aka NFC right? And google wallets uses a virtual card that mastercard and visa back. Visa announce today they created the token system apple is using. So apple had nothing to do with it really

 

[donsullivan]

It is 85% of phones shipped. Apple has 13% of phones shipped.
Still impressive considering they only make one phone vs the hundreds of androids on the market.
Apple is number two in phone sales worldwide behind Samsung.

I only ask about the refund because I know many retailers need the CC number to issue refunds. But I'm sure it will work out some how.

I have said in previous post why mobile NFC payments haven't taken off, so I won't repeat it.

You can use any bank you'd like with google Wallet.
Google wallet then assigns you a Mastercard number. That is what retailers see. They don't see your CC through Google Wallet. You're always required to enter a pin number to access your wallet or its funds. But your right, Google didn't work with individual vendors. You can only use Google wallet where MasterCard is accepted. But you can have any Visa, Amex, etc linked to pay for what you buy.

The refund should work exactly the same as it did before. Instead of swiping your card at the POS for the return, you would select the payment card you used for the original transaction and complete another ApplePay transaction with the same authentication to complete the credit transaction.

One of the things that is really cool about Apple's solution vs. Google's is you'll be able to use your current AMEX, VISA, MasterCard and potentially many other merchant cards in the future. All of those cards would be stored on your phone and you select the card you want to use at the point of purchase instead of all transactions rolling to one predefined card. That will create the ability to add a large number of merchant cards in the future if this all takes off.

 

[willtravel]

Merchants still only swiping cards will become financially liable for fraudulent charges.

Thanks. Just looked that up. Recently someone from Dubai made a purchase with my card. Card was cancelled and a new one was issued. In the future, who would be responsible for the fraud in this situation? On my old card there was a silver, shiny square on the back. What was this for? I always thought that was a chip. On my new card I have a white small square on front and the same silver square on back.