Any 411 on EPCOT redo?

[PeterAlt]

I don't need to tell you all, but let's refresh...

- The original charm of EPCOT Center is gone. No Journey into Imagination. No Horizons. No World of Motion. No decent scene for Spaceship Earth.

- Wonders of Life closed and not replaced, like a boarded up building of a department store that went out of business in a dilapidating, once-thriving downtown.

- World of Showcase hasn't been updated (for the most part) since Norway was added in 1988.

Knowing that John Lasseter has pushed for the current redo of DCA and for the FLE, it is only natural to assume that he has pushed for an EPCOT redo as well. One of the following must be true (a) an EPCOT redo master plan is being planned but hasn't been finalized yet for approval, (b) an EPCOT redo master plan had been finalized but had not been given the go-ahead of upper management and/or CEO Bob Iger, or (c) EPCOT redo planning may not be an Imagineering priority.

Can any "insiders" out there some shed light on this subject?

EDIT - removed bullet point about Innovations.

 

[AndyS2992]

I hope so. EPCOT needs a lot a love right now. Extremely dated for something that is supposed to be futuristic..

 

[The Empress Lilly]

My take on all four of your points:

- The people who destroyed FW need to be publicly flogged.

- WoL closed indeed. However, it did get replaced. Just not by attractions. But as headquarters of special events. It looks silly, oddly located, but the replacement use is there. EPCOT transitioned from theme park into event-driven F&B property.

- Innoventions is being kept up-to-date. Innoventions shows off modern corporate America better than ever before. In a stroke very representative of modern corporate America, the anti-obesity children's health adition was closed after an intense astroturf campaign against it from Big Food. (What WDW1974 would call Big Food's social media prostitutes and planted articles and news items)
Otherwise too Innoventions totally reflects corporate America's contemporary passion for innovention: there's not very much of it.

- WS is totally being developed. Into a kind of UNI Citywalk, a zoo, an 'all-u-can-eat while you get ed drunk in a family theme park'. We may clamour for Rhine River Cruises in Germany, but WDW management regards WS as their F&B adult entertainment district.

 

[Hakunamatata]

One of the following must be true (a) an EPCOT redo master plan is being planned but hasn't been finalized yet for approval, (b) an EPCOT redo master plan had been finalized but had not been given the go-ahead of upper management and/or CEO Bob Iger, or (c) EPCOT redo planning may not be an Imagineering priority.

Or (d) there are higher priorities and an EPCOT "redo" isnt even on the radar.

 

[bigeternity]

This is exactly why any logical talk of a 5th gate is absurd. Disney can't even care for the existing four parks.

 

[tomman710]

Or (d) there are higher priorities and an EPCOT "redo" isnt even on the radar.

Exactly. I think TDO has positioned WS as the premiere dining/drinking spot in WDW, add to that the constant festivals, and I'm sure the attendance levels look fine. Now take that with their "unless it's really broke, like burned to ashes broke, don't even think about a fix it" mentality then EPCOT is probably not on their radar at all ... SADLY.

 

[PeterAlt]

Or (d) there are higher priorities and an EPCOT "redo" isnt even on the radar.

That's C.

 

[PeterAlt]

This is exactly why any logical talk of a 5th gate is absurd. Disney can't even care for the existing four parks.

No. What's absurd is that Disney used the excuse of needing to concentrate on the existing parks for not building the fifth gate this decade, but they have done very little so far regarding that promise of concentrating on redoing and building out the existing parks (with the exception of MK's FLE)!

 

[bearboysnc]

Knowing that John Lasseter has pushed for the current redo of DCA and for the FLE, it is only natural to assume that he has pushed for an EPCOT redo as well

Granted, EPCOT is a shadow of it's former self, but, why would you assume he's pushing for a EPCOT redo? DCA has had underperformed for a decade, and FLE was becoming a dangerous bottleneck with mild attendance because of all the strollers. With the addition of the Lucas characters, and the still unused Marvel characters, overhauling EPCOT is the last thing on their minds.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I've heard rumblings of some Epcot related projects and some are very intriguing. Having said that, none of them look to be anywhere near as solid as World of Avatar or Carsland.

Here's hoping the Test Track re-do is a step in the right direction.

 

[afar28]

It seems like all the parks besides MK need an upgrade. Very sad, considering how the parks used to be

 

[muteki]

Knowing that John Lasseter has pushed for the current redo of DCA and for the FLE, it is only natural to assume that he has pushed for an EPCOT redo as well

Granted, EPCOT is a shadow of it's former self, but, why would you assume he's pushing for a EPCOT redo? DCA has had underperformed for a decade, and FLE was becoming a dangerous bottleneck with mild attendance because of all the strollers. With the addition of the Lucas characters, and the still unused Marvel characters, overhauling EPCOT is the last thing on their minds.

In the case of Carsland DCA I feel that was more his attachment to the place and association with the new content. What connection, if any, does Lasseter have with Epcot other than working for the company that owns it?

 

[articos]

Imagineering priority is very different from TDO priority. And both can be different from JL's priority.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It seems like all the parks besides MK need an upgrade. Very sad, considering how the parks used to be

I think the needs can be addressed in two different ways: Adding capacity and Addressing issues. Ideally, these two things can be accomplished simultaneously. Looking at something like the Fantasyland expansion, they added capacity and enhanced the theming of Fantasyland. A similar approach to Tomorrowland would be much appreciated, but it seems that capacity may now be less of an issue. In my opinion, the order of need after the Fantasyland expansion is as follows:

1. Addressing Issues Hollywood Studios: Creating a more unifying theme while having clearly defined lands is probably the biggest area of weakness in any park.
2. Adding Capacity Hollywood Studios: In this case these two will likely be accomplished together. It's possible that a true capacity increase doesn't happen, but converting shows to rides is typically looked upon favorably by guests.
3. Adding Capacity Animal Kingdom: Thematically, this park is exceptional (provided you don't look at Dinorama). What it needs is for that exceptional theming to continue while they add capacity. They accomplished this by adding Expedition Everest (and to a lesser extent replacing Tarzan Rocks with Finding Nemo the Musical). This would be the goal of Avatar
4. Addressing Issues Epcot: Future World is a mess, World Showcase is far less messy from an issues standpoint.
5. Adding Capacity Magic Kingdom: If the Fantasyland Expansion was meant to add capacity, it addressed this issue somewhat. However, this park still seems to be the likeliest candidate to go to phased closing. Adding capacity in Adventureland will help spread out crowds
6. Addressing Issues Magic Kingdom: Tomorrowland could use an overhaul
7. Addressing Issues Animal Kingdom: While the priority for fixing the Yeti should be much higher, addressing Dinorama shouldn't be at the top of the priority list. The park needs to make up for lost capacity if they take down Dinorama
8. Adding Capacity Epcot: Capacity has never been an issue at this park

 

[Hakunamatata]

That's C.

There is a distinct difference between what is on Imagineering's radar and what is on TDC's radar......

 

[AndyS2992]

It seems like all the parks besides MK need an upgrade. Very sad, considering how the parks used to be

Magic Kingdom needs a HUGE upgrade in my opinion. The Fantasyland dark rides need new Little Mermaid style animatronics, new facades for Peter Pan, Small World and Philharmagic, Tomorrowland needs a big refurb to bring it up to date, Adventureland needs a new attraction badly and Frontierland needs sprucing up. Haunted Mansion needs its external effects to work again. The only land I am fully satisfied with is Main Street USA.

But EPCOT also needs a huge upgrade, Animal Kingdom need more rides and Hollywood Studios also needs new rides. Expanding Pixar Place would be a great start.

 

[marni1971]

I did ask this. The park is in dire straights, thematically, capacity and physically. I was told aside from isolated projects there are no long term cohesive plans at the moment. So long as the styles keep clicking they don't or don't want to see the problems,

With a VP who thinks Food and Wine is a good thing for the park that says it all. Sadly the park is slipping even further down my personally favourites list.

 

[DisneyDad1977]

It is so sad to see something so close to Walt's heart be so far from TDO's

 

[Hakunamatata]

It is so sad to see something so close to Walt's heart be so far from TDO's

The version of EPCOT you saw on opening day was not really close to the vision Walt had......

 

[PeterAlt]

The version of EPCOT you saw on opening day was not really close to the vision Walt had......

That may be true but at least it was done in the spirit of the original, with many of the original people on board lending their designs. Much of the designs originated in Walt's original EPCOT plan. Also, the idea for EPCOT Center was to have public focal point for an eventual build out that would eventually - over time - include Walt's city of the future but in revised form. Of course this never happened and those plans faded from corporate memory. Eisner at least tried adhere to those plans by authorizing the creation of Celebrations with his own "vision" of the city of the future, not Walt's vision. During Eisner's tenure, many Future World attractions closed but they've been replaced with other attractions that cost the company over $800 million in total. To put this cost in perspective, this is the same as what DAK had cost to open. Eisner authorized a plan to fully redo Future World code named Project Gemini. Project Gemini included Soaring and a complete redo of Future World. It seemed Project Gemini was well under way - in revised form - when construction of Soaring begun. Eisner left the company around this time and -since then - Project Gemini (or any incarnation thereof) either died just after it had begun or was simply forgotten about (i.e. Iger never got the memo). In any case, at least there was a plan of action, perhaps a guilty conscience to fill in for all the destruction done earlier, but a new management team - taking no responsibility for the destruction done by previous executives - has no such guilty conscience (since it wasn't them who did the damage) and, therefore, have no plans for fixing it. Sad.