Anti- Autism Suit Against Disney Update

[righttrack]

It's hard for a large company with process to proceduralize something like handling someone with autism. I'm sure it's very different situationally and by person affected. I think having a number of flexible options to deal with and make their experience special is what's most important. It's not a condition where A+B=C. Good training and flexibility are the key watchwords in this area I'm sure and I'm no expert at all, just an idiot commenting on a messageboard.

 

[smile]

I think it all goes back to what is reasonable accommodation? Many of the things that we take for granted - handicapped parking spaces, entrances, restroom facilities, ramps, etc were hotly debated way back when, with many people calling them unreasonable.

imagine the effectiveness of handicap parking if it relied on the honor system, tho.

to this, giving privilege to one based on the honor system while charging others for the same is highly questionable and ripe for abuse, regardless of intent.

 

[The Mom]

imagine the effectiveness of handicap parking if it relied on the honor system, tho.

to this, giving privilege to one based on the honor system while charging others for the same is highly questionable and ripe for abuse, regardless of intent.

Many cities had free meter parking in handicap parking spots. Many cities are thinking about, or already do, charging everyone to park due to abuse. People were "borrowing" placards to avoid paying. Now, even those who can legally park in one will still have to feed the meter. I'm sure some are/will be very angry about it. No one likes to have a "perk" removed.

And WDW/DL changed the system because the ADA insists upon an honor system - which, as you pointed out, leaves it ripe for abuse.

 

[Willmark]

Yep.

Anyone who thinks this will “just work out”or “people won’t abuse the system” are fooling themselves when it comes to human nature.

Add in the, as I like to call it the “opportunity cost” that is Disney parks? People are going to look for any angle.

Add to this Americans are not the most patient people on the planet? I see LOTS of unintended consequences to this.

 

[thomas998]

True, a disabled parent or grandparent doesn’t really NEED to watch a kid’s hockey game, if it means someone like you might have to park a few feet further away.

I'm not talking about a ice skating rink. There is one near where I used to live that was roller skating, no place for spectating just a locker room type area to put on skates and that was it. So I really don't think it was going to have any grandparents standing around watching.

 

[thomas998]

You've never seen handicapped skiers? I have. They have to park and then get inside to get into their specific adaptive equipment.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Paralympic+sports+list&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

I see a couple on the list that take place in a skating rink, and on ski slopes.

I used to ski all the time in the northeast back in the 90's and never once saw a handicapped skier. And while I could understand a handicapped parking space in the large resorts where you had restaurants and bars at the resort I never understood the ones at the very small places that had nothing beyond skiing.

 

[thomas998]

You do realize that handicap people can and do drive cars.

I am guessing your not familiar with what a Sonic Drive-in is... It is a fast food place where you drive up in a car, roll your window down and order from an intercom after which a person brings the food to your car. You the customer never get out of your car. There is no public restroom available and no place for anyone to order food from except the intercoms by the car windows. In other words the driver whether in a wheelchair bound or not never gets out of their car. Now do you understand why it makes no sense to have handicapped parking at a place like this?

 

[The Mom]

I used to ski all the time in the northeast back in the 90's and never once saw a handicapped skier. And while I could understand a handicapped parking space in the large resorts where you had restaurants and bars at the resort I never understood the ones at the very small places that had nothing beyond skiing.

I used to ski all the time in the late 80s and 90s in the Rockies including many tiny areas, and saw many disbaled skiers - I'm sure there are more now.. That is part of the problem - just because someone doesn't see someone with a handicap using a facility doesn't mean that they don't exist. So any public accommodation has to be accessible.

 

[The Mom]

I am guessing your not familiar with what a Sonic Drive-in is... It is a fast food place where you drive up in a car, roll your window down and order from an intercom after which a person brings the food to your car. You the customer never get out of your car. There is no public restroom available and no place for anyone to order food from except the intercoms by the car windows. In other words the driver whether in a wheelchair bound or not never gets out of their car. Now do you understand why it makes no sense to have handicapped parking at a place like this?

Your experience may not be universal. Some Sonic's apparently do have restrooms and picnic tables - so national policy may be for all of them to be accessible. I believe I also mentioned that the intercom may be set up differently in the handicapped lane. The fact that you cannot see a reason doesn't mean that there isn't one.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am guessing your not familiar with what a Sonic Drive-in is... It is a fast food place where you drive up in a car, roll your window down and order from an intercom after which a person brings the food to your car. You the customer never get out of your car. There is no public restroom available and no place for anyone to order food from except the intercoms by the car windows. In other words the driver whether in a wheelchair bound or not never gets out of their car. Now do you understand why it makes no sense to have handicapped parking at a place like this?

Most Sonics have an outdoor seating area in front of the building and have restrooms located on the back.

 

[smile]

Many cities had free meter parking in handicap parking spots. Many cities are thinking about, or already do, charging everyone to park due to abuse. People were "borrowing" placards to avoid paying. Now, even those who can legally park in one will still have to feed the meter. I'm sure some are/will be very angry about it. No one likes to have a "perk" removed.

And WDW/DL changed the system because the ADA insists upon an honor system - which, as you pointed out, leaves it ripe for abuse.

either density or stress or both can coerce even the best of us to snag one in a rush - i prefer the fire lane if i need to dash in real quick, anyways
add in a couple folks that don't know and a whole heap of folks that don't care and there you have it.

but i'm also now considering that while often abused, handicap parking in many places not so crammed can actually be a great example of the honor system

the ADA insists upon an honor system

i'm not wholly educated on the topic, but is it safe to assume that's the generally held view of those it represents?

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think it all goes back to what is reasonable accommodation? Many of the things that we take for granted - handicapped parking spaces, entrances, restroom facilities, ramps, etc were hotly debated way back when, with many people calling them unreasonable.

Years ago when I traveled south to get to WDW, it always made me cringe when the handicapped parking was located at the furthest spot away from the entrance of restaurants or stores. Sort of like the handicap parking at MK. At MK your only hope is to be disabled enough to have to use a wheelchair or scooter because the walk would take you out. Down in the ravine and up the other side. A real challenge. In the beginning they couldn't even get the trams to negotiate that very easily.

Of course, back then the smoking areas in restaurants were right in the middle of the dining room. No separation from the general public at all. If you were lucky they had an exhaust fan over head. Not often though.

 

[LAKid53]

Because what you generally have with a large percentage of people using the ADA law is not people wanting equality but people wanting special treatment. I'm always baffled by handicapped parking, I can understand having some spaces wider to insure a wheelchair can be moved easily near the car; that makes sense. But if every parking spot in your parking lot were extra wide affording the ability to get a wheelchair in and out easily why require handicap parking at all, that would truly be equal treatment of everyone. I know some people will say but some people can't walk very far... which may be true, but if you can't walk very far why would you be going to places like malls where you are going to have to walk a long way no matter where you parked. Why not allow places to scatter handicapped parking all over the place some places near the entrance some far far away and some in the middle, wouldn't that insure that the person using that special parking place was being treated equally and being given preferential treatment? In the end everyone wants to be treated better than the next guy, and in the US a lot of people have found that the weapon to get that special treatment is the ADA.

Handicapped parking is not just about parking spaces with sufficient room to maneuver a wheel chair. It's also about proximity to a building entrance. I worked with someone who had RA. It was very difficult and exhausting for her (she was in her mid 20s) to walk distances of more than 20 feet or so. Same for people who have other non-visible handicaps, such as COPD. My brother's ex-FIL had severe emphysema. Even after he was on oxygen, it was difficult for him to walk 30 feet.

 

[The Mom]

either density or stress or both can coerce even the best of us to snag one in a rush - i prefer the fire lane if i need to dash in real quick, anyways
add in a couple folks that don't know and a whole heap of folks that don't care and there you have it.

but i'm also now considering that while often abused, handicap parking in many places not so crammed can actually be a great example of the honor system



i'm not wholly educated on the topic, but is it safe to assume that's the generally held view of those it represents?

There are different levels - the requirements can be different for government services (such as parking permits) versus businesses. In some instances you have to prove that you have a disabilty, or the extent of your disability (paralympics comes to mind, where people with varying degrees of disabilty compete, so someone who is legally blind, for example, might have an advantage over someone who is totally blind ) but in others no one can legally force you to present proof - which is the case here. Then others are in a grey area where people are strictly on the honor, and common sense system - such as using a handicapped stall. Most people would use one if 1. the restroom is really crowded 2. They really have to go 3. there is no one visible who appears to need it.

So, to answer your question - it depends. Not all people with disabilities think the same. Some would be more than happy to have the law changed to require proof - if it would cut down on abuse. Others do not want to have to carry "proof" as they consider that to be intrusive.

 

[thomas998]

Years ago when I traveled south to get to WDW, it always made me cringe when the handicapped parking was located at the furthest spot away from the entrance of restaurants or stores. Sort of like the handicap parking at MK. At MK your only hope is to be disabled enough to have to use a wheelchair or scooter because the walk would take you out. Down in the ravine and up the other side. A real challenge. In the beginning they couldn't even get the trams to negotiate that very easily.

Of course, back then the smoking areas in restaurants were right in the middle of the dining room. No separation from the general public at all. If you were lucky they had an exhaust fan over head. Not often though.

There is of course the option of having the person that has no mobility issues dropping off the person that has mobility issues at the entrance and then going to park, that would actually result in the person with mobility issues having to walk less than if they used the handicapped parking.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is of course the option of having the person that has no mobility issues dropping off the person that has mobility issues at the entrance and then going to park, that would actually result in the person with mobility issues having to walk less than if they used the handicapped parking.

Unless, of course, they drive themselves there, but, I'm sure you feel that if you are disabled you should lock yourself into a room and never go out in public.

I truly hope that you are trolling, because if you aren't I am fairly convinced that you are probably one of the most self centered and uncaring people ever to pollute these boards. I, for one, am done with reading anything you put on here because it is totally irrelevant to human life. I hope that others follow that lead.

 

[thomas998]

Most Sonics have an outdoor seating area in front of the building and have restrooms located on the back.

You do realize that the tables outside are intended as a place for the workers and not customers... I have even seen signs that state they will not serve walk-ups at the parking spots. They may have some Sonics somewhere in the world that actually have a place to order if you just walk up but I've never seen one. Which again leads to the question of why require special parking in a place where no one is expected to actually get out of their car.

 

[LAKid53]

There is of course the option of having the person that has no mobility issues dropping off the person that has mobility issues at the entrance and then going to park, that would actually result in the person with mobility issues having to walk less than if they used the handicapped parking.

Seriously? What if that individual was your child? Or your Alzheimer's afflicted parent who also had balance issues and thus problems walking, like my dad? I'm just supposed to dump him at the entrance to the doctor's office and then hope there's an available handicapped spot or a close spot in general in a very crowded parking lot?

 

[thomas998]

Unless, of course, the drive themselves there, but, I'm sure you feel that if you are disabled you should lock yourself into a room and never go out in public.

I truly hope that you are trolling, because if you aren't I am fairly convinced that you are probably one of the most self centered and uncaring people ever to pollute these boards. I, for one, am done with reading anything you put on here because it is totally irrelevant to human life. I hope that others follow that lead.

Well I have noticed that you often have a habit of reading things into what people write that aren't actually there, but I'll spare you my insight into who I am convinced you are.

 

[thomas998]

Seriously? What if that individual was your child? Or your Alzheimer's afflicted parent who also had balance issues and thus problems walking, like my dad? I'm just supposed to dump him at the entrance to the doctor's office and then hope there's an available handicapped spot or a close spot in general in a very crowded parking lot?

Well to begin with I was responding on how a poster could avoid what they perceived as handicapped parking that was too far from the entrance of MK... My suggestion was only for a method that would allow someone that had trouble walking having to walk even less than if you used the MK handicapped parking. But clearly you want to believe that I was somehow trying to tell you how to handle dropping people off at a doctor's office - I wasn't.
You might want to try looking at the whole of conversation before making assumptions about what a response was directed to.