Answer to Epic Universe?

[doctornick]

Bingo. Thank you.

Pretty much JTTCOTE with a different monster and a 20K either a) left as an empty space for later or b) as a walk through to be turned into a ride later or c) as the ride from day one (unlikely even back then)

would love to see that still added to DAK. Could they carve out some space on the west side of the park along the Africa to Pandora route? I know there’s backstage support there but would really be an ideal area for a non live animal area

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

JTTCOTE is an overrated ride to be honest. The acceleration portion was like less than 10 seconds and it's over. The first part was great with the animatronic monster. The queue for this ride is way better like Gringotts.

I had quite the opposite reaction!

I'd already seen the videos multiple times (I usually don't look at spoilers, but I didn't expect that I'd ever find myself in Japan), and when I went on it, it exceeded my expectations and immediately became one of my very top favorite rides ever alongside DL's Pirates and WDW's ToT.

The detail and realism of the queue, the stunning show scenes, and the "cherry on top" of the high-speed segment just fit together into something much greater than "the sum of those parts," IMHO.

That being said, it would indeed be even better with a few additional show scenes and an even longer high-speed segment. And the vehicles could have been 12-seaters to allow for much higher capacity, if possible engineering-wise.

 

[dav23]

Universal will never overtake Disneyworld parks in attendance (just too much brand recognition for Disney), but thank goodness they’re actually giving them some competition. I think a lot of people are underselling what a brand new, state-of-the-art park will do for Universal as they have grown immensely in popularity the last decade.

As others have said, would love for Disney to continue to add and expand to their existing parks. The last few years of development really have been impressive, just hope they keep it up.

 

[doctornick]

In regards to the main premise, I would be surprised if Disney doesn't do something to counteract the publicity for Epic Universe. Tron and GotG will open in 2022 but they will need something to be opening in the 2023-25 range to be able to publicize and sell and keep some attention. And given the schedules for Disney builds.... do you think we'll hear about anything being approved and started in the next year?

Might they "dust off" some previous plans? Expansion at DAK? New land at DHS? New pavilion at Epcot WS or Mary Poppins? Main Street Theater?

 

[TokyoMiki]

JTTCOTE is an overrated ride

Opposite please.
It is actually underrated. There is nothing in Universal nor anything Disney owns that is as extravagant in detail as Journey to Center Earth. Disney could only wish to own something so mind blowing.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I think WDW's reply to Epic is going to be value or free dining packages........maybe........
WDW sadly could care less.

I think this is 100% true. Disney is not hurting for attendance and seems to be working on a model based on minimum possible expansion of capacity and maximum possible extraction of revenues from each guest. If there is a loss of guests to Epic Universe that might be covered by rising fees and uncharges from Disney's perspective. If they do end up needing to claw back attendance, I'm sure they feel they can give back some of their profit margins on each guest through promotional offers. Honestly, they would probably be right.

A 5th WDW park to compete with Universal's 3rd doesn't make sense from any perspective.

 

[uncle jimmy]

I had quite the opposite reaction!

I'd already seen the videos multiple times (I usually don't look at spoilers, but I didn't expect that I'd ever find myself in Japan), and when I went on it, it exceeded my expectations and immediately became one of my very top favorite rides ever alongside DL's Pirates and WDW's ToT.

The detail and realism of the queue, the stunning show scenes, and the "cherry on top" of the high-speed segment just fit together into something much greater than "the sum of those parts," IMHO.

That being said, it would indeed be even better with a few additional show scenes and an even longer high-speed segment. And the vehicles could have been 12-seaters to allow for much higher capacity, if possible engineering-wise.

Same! It's one of my favorite there!

 

[AFoodie]

I know that Disney & Universal are competitors, and obvi Disney has the higher market share. But I think as both continue to try to one up each other, us fans are the ones that benefit. So play ball!

 

[erasure fan1]

If there is a loss of guests to Epic Universe that might be covered by rising fees and uncharges from Disney's perspective.

Exactly. It seems Disney would prefer to have a lot fewer guests, paying a lot more, all while giving less. The funny part is they're giving less, charging more, but people just keep coming. I'm pretty sure Disney doesn't see anything as a threat to them.

 

[Snake]

When Harry Potter land opened Universal saw an increase of over 20% attendance, when Disney open Galaxy Edge? 3-5% attendance increase? Disneyland didnt see any increase in attendance when GE opened btw. And from what I understand Volcano Bay is absolutely destroying both Disney water parks, not even a contest. If a land made a 20% bump, what would a new park with amazing new rides do? Universal is also building better rides now, I mean honestly Hagrids, at least for me, is better than the Galaxy Edge rides, blows them both out of the water. Galaxy Edge is boring to me. Hagrids beats Runaway Railroad too, that ride is such a snooze I can't believe it, and the Slinky Dog Dash. After this, Universal will only be 1 theme park away from matching Disney with offerings, could anyone have imaged that would ever be the case? This is going to be turning point in the rivalry if Disney doesn't do something. I can only assume the Imagineers that defected to Universal are responsible for this, Disney really messed up. Watch them build a monorail connecting their parks . . .

 

[DisneySongbird]

Exactly. It seems Disney would prefer to have a lot fewer guests, paying a lot more, all while giving less. The funny part is they're giving less, charging more, but people just keep coming. I'm pretty sure Disney doesn't see anything as a threat to them.

I mean, bluntly speaking, nothing is a threat to them. Disneyworld has yet to find the ceiling where enough people are priced out that the "give less and charge more" strategy even has a noticeable impact on overcrowding. They're actively trying to drive people away and it's not working.

Both of Universal's Florida parks together (I'm not counting anybody's water parks here) combine for an annual 2019 attendance of 21.3 million, a mere 300k more than Magic Kingdom on its own and I suspect that more than 300k people are "double counted" due to Universal not distinguishing 2-park visitors from 1-park visitors. To be fair, Disney doesn't either, and so I similarly suspect that an overwhelming majority of AK's 13.9 million, Epcot's 12 and HS's 11.4 are already counted amongst MK's attendance. But those numbers are and continue to be heavily skewed in WDW's favor unless we contort them pretty ridiculously by, say, assuming there's actually 0 people counted twice in Universal's attendance (unlikely) AND the actual added WDW attendance from every non-MK park is 0 because every single person park hopped into or out of MK thus they're all already counted (demonstrably false as Park Hopping is an upcharge not purchased by 100% of visitors in 2019.)

Despite Universal doing everything it can to pack its parks at the same time Disney is doing everything it can to drive people away short of keeping its own hotels shuttered and having Josh D'Amaro go on written record to say "don't come here," the only thing that has meaningfully reduced crowding at the Disney parks since they started speedrunning back to 100% capacity is the thing that people who are not me are welcome to discuss in the appropriate threads where I don't have to read it (not this one.)

Bluntly speaking, the biggest threat to Disney in the theme parks and entertainment sector... is Disney. They're more likely to "lose" to Universal by triggering an open revolt by their own fanbase and shareholders than they are to lose to Universal luring 10 million people away from WDW altogether.

 

[Imagineer45]

All 4 of WDW's parks outdraw every one of Universal's parks. End of story.

Universal will never overtake Disneyworld parks in attendance (just too much brand recognition for Disney), but thank goodness they’re actually giving them some competition.

In 2019, Epcot had 12.4 million visitors, DHS had 11.5 million, and DAK had 13.9 million. USF had 10.9 million and IoA had 10.4 million, but that was up 84% and 74%, respectively, since 2010. The growth for those three Disney World parks in that same timeframe? 15%, 19%, and 43%, respectively. Yes, growth quite that high will likely not last forever for Universal, but it would not be unreasonable to see either USF or IoA surpass at least one of those three DW parks within the next decade. Most of the brand recognition goes towards MK, which is why it had almost 21 million visitors in 2019 and will likely maintain a comfortable lead over every other Orlando park for quite some time.

 

[lightguy]

WDW's attendance numbers are so big largely because so many families go there for one to two weeks at a time vs two to three days for most people at Universal. I doubt any single Universal park will ever exceed the MK, however, Disney is likely to have an issue once Epic Universe opens. Universal is almost certainly going to price everything to strongly "encourage" people to stay with them for a full week. And with 3 full gates and a great water park many will...especially to see the new park.

If Epic Universe really hits it out of the park, people will want to keep coming back and doing that and in a much higher percentage of cases than currently, people will either skip WDW or only spend a day or so there. I could even see Universal partnering with (...or buying...) SeaWorld to round out a week long trip. My guess is that 3-5 years after Epic Universe opens, the total attendance for UOR will have fully doubled...if not more... from where it was right before the pandemic. Epic Universe is likely going to have some killer IP in it. All the Nintendo stuff will be a huge hit, another HP area of some type will be huge, and I actually think a Universal classic monsters area could be really killer. It really depends how good of a job they do on this park.

With all that said, it's not like I'm saying Universal is going to kill Disney. To a certain extent they help each other in drawing more and more people to Orlando. The real question is are there so many people that Universal can gain 20 million+ visits without Disney taking a hit. I don't know, but at least in the near term I think no. Guess we'll see.

As for Disney's answer to Epic Universe and a 5th park- as much as I want to will a Disney villain's park into existence, I just don't see it happening in my lifetime, and I'm only in my 40's. I think it's 50/50 if they ever build a 5th gate. It's just so much more infrastructure, cost and staffing. In my mind, the only thing that will make them build a 5th gate is if the other 4 are so crowded that they need it just to be able to bring more total guests into the resort and/or to build more expensive hotels. On one hand they seem to be getting close to that now, but they are much more likely to just add on to the current parks. Personally, while I would love more E-Ticket rides at each park, I really think what they need is a bunch of B/C/D tickets. Spending a Billion dollars for 2 rides isn't the answer. I'm sure they will be planning something reasonably big to counter Epic Universe (but equally just because they need to add additional capacity) since it's not opening for probably 5 years and all the current construction will be long since complete and open, but it won't be a 5th gate.

 

[erasure fan1]

If Epic Universe really hits it out of the park, people will want to keep coming back and doing that and in a much higher percentage of cases than currently, people will either skip WDW or only spend a day or so there.

If I was to guess, it will be just skip Disney altogether. The fact that going to Disney for only a day or two is just so expensive, I can see a good number just saying forget it. At the rate we are going, I can see single days at or above the $200 mark by the time EU opens. So why not spend 4 days going to the 3 universal parks and a day at the water park and maybe a day at the pool and City walk.

 

[JusticeDisney]

In 2019, Epcot had 12.4 million visitors, DHS had 11.5 million, and DAK had 13.9 million. USF had 10.9 million and IoA had 10.4 million, but that was up 84% and 74%, respectively, since 2010. The growth for those three Disney World parks in that same timeframe? 15%, 19%, and 43%, respectively. Yes, growth quite that high will likely not last forever for Universal, but it would not be unreasonable to see either USF or IoA surpass at least one of those three DW parks within the next decade. Most of the brand recognition goes towards MK, which is why it had almost 21 million visitors in 2019 and will likely maintain a comfortable lead over every other Orlando park for quite some time.

Anything is possible going forward, but WDW continues to blow Universal out of the water in the one and only area where it truly matters to them. Attendance. And I don’t expect that to change anytime soon, if ever.

 

[matt9112]

Anything is possible going forward, but WDW continues to blow Universal out of the water in the one and only area where it truly matters to them. Attendance. And I don’t expect that to change anytime soon, if ever.

Yet we know disney is ok with lower attendance in return for higher guest spending...its legitimately there modern strategy. I dont think attendance matters as much as PGS.

Look this new park should be mind blowing compared to the existing universal parks. Couple that with additional lodging and its a win win. Remember disney has two huge advantages over universal. One is rooms and two is nostalgia. Universal has publicly stated they want to cut the room gap significantly. Sure there never going to be a disney but is that a bad thing? Being on top breeds complacency. The nostalgia part of disney might not last forever. But we will see. This is a great opportunity for universal to have the best theme park in florida.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Yet we know disney is ok with lower attendance in return for higher guest spending...its legitimately there modern strategy. I dont think attendance matters as much as PGS.

Look this new park should be mind blowing compared to the existing universal parks. Couple that with additional lodging and its a win win. Remember disney has two huge advantages over universal. One is rooms and two is nostalgia. Universal has publicly stated they want to cut the room gap significantly. Sure there never going to be a disney but is that a bad thing? Being on top breeds complacency. The nostalgia part of disney might not last forever. But we will see. This is a great opportunity for universal to have the best theme park in florida.

Best theme park in Florida? Well, now you’re getting into a whole different discussion. And of course, that’s totally subjective.

Anyway, my only point (and I stand by it) is that WDW blows Universal away in sheer numbers at this point. And I would hardly call adding Pandora, SWGE, Toy Story Land, Tron, GOTG, Ratatouille, Space 220, etc being complacent.

 

[matt9112]

Best theme park in Florida? Well, now you’re getting into a whole different discussion. And of course, that’s totally subjective.

Anyway, my only point (and I stand by it) is that WDW blows Universal away in sheer numbers at this point. And I would hardly call adding Pandora, SWGE, Toy Story Land, Tron, GOTG, Ratatouille, Space 220, etc being complacent.

Pandora is the only thing mind blowing on that list....GOTG might be too who knows. Rat is a clone and toy story land was hyped as if it was gods gift to earth and unless you want a good tan its not. I also find SWGE amazingly underwhelming but thats a little bit biased.

I lost faith in disney when i heard they had a ride built and ready to open but just decided not to...because $$ marketing baby $$

It has yet to be seen but i cant imagine epic is worse than universals current parks given its massive size. Its entry and overall design seem to be awesome (if it isnt cut to pieces) so that just leaves the 4 disney parks. HS and Epcot are the weak links here. Granted GOTG could be awesome but i dont think rat really matters in this context. Although its a welcome addition.
But see i consider SWGE a failure from an overall stand point so i just dont think we are going to agree here. As most on this forum believe SWGE is a bit more than that.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Pandora is the only thing mind blowing on that list....GOTG might be too who knows. Rat is a clone and toy story land was hyped as if it was gods gift to earth and unless you want a good tan its not. I also find SWGE amazingly underwhelming but thats a little bit biased.

I lost faith in disney when i heard they had a ride built and ready to open but just decided not to...because $$ marketing baby $$

It has yet to be seen but i cant imagine epic is worse than universals current parks given its massive size. Its entry and overall design seem to be awesome (if it isnt cut to pieces) so that just leaves the 4 disney parks. HS and Epcot are the weak links here. Granted GOTG could be awesome but i dont think rat really matters in this context. Although its a welcome addition.
But see i consider SWGE a failure from an overall stand point so i just dont think we are going to agree here. As most on this forum believe SWGE is a bit more than that.

You’re certainly entitled to your opinions. But to claim that WDW has been complacent these past several years is simply not accurate. They haven’t been. And that’s the only point I was making.

 

[aliceismad]

Universal did a great job in snagging Harry Potter and Nintendo. And using the Jurassic Park franchise well. Like it or not, for a lot of people IP is a primary driver toward a theme park, and Disney IP and their integration of IP is more enduring that Universal's. Uni has fantastic rides for a certain segment of the population, but it's hard to compete with the most well-loved children's stories on earth. The Secret Life of Pets ride looks very impressive - but in 10 years or 20 years, many may not remember SLoP but they'll remember Moana, Snow White, etc.

Universal is being very successful carving a niche for the "older kids" to include adults. I'm sure their other lands will be nice, but I think it's Nintendo at Epic that is going to be the main driver. Most of today's parents grew up playing Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, etc., and we love those games.