Another Test Eliminating Standby - now at Anna & Elsa M&G

[RayTheFirefly]

I didn't realize that I was required to respond to every word that you or anyone else types. I thought that this was an internet forum, not my job.

That being said, here's my response to that issue: It is true that having reservations for a restaurant or FP+s for an attraction reduces a person's spontaneity. It is the price of being able to eat where you want or experience a popular attraction without undue wait. That's a trade that I've been willing to make for several years now. Loads of other people also apparently freely chose to make this trade.

Of course it's not your job... I was just trying to get your complete perspective, and what's the point of a conversation when a participant just doesn't respond to certain things that are brought up? I thought forums were for discussion.

You keep saying "without waiting," but you are waiting. You're just waiting somewhere else. And my worry is that if this sort of thing does become more prevalent (and at this early stage of testing, I think it's a valid hypothetical to consider), your time spent "not waiting" will end up being wasted anyway, but with less flexibility. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I just thought it was something valid to be brought up. Clearly you think it's a great idea no matter what.

 

[dadddio]

Well true. But on most times it's an even mix. Now if we're all in the same line, at 3:10 when I can enter the line, I'm an hour out. Before I was behind the people with 2:10 to 3:05 reservations who are physically in front of me, with SB mixed. But your result is more of the person who comes in with the valid FP waits ten minutes or so, the person who got in line with SB at 45 minutes is waiting 45 minutes.

I failed to reply to an important point that you made in your post. You pointed out that before you were waiting in two different lines while now you are in the same line. It should be noted that you weren't in two totally different lines, previously. You were in a merged line. Whoever was working the line allowed X number of SB guests to enter for every Y number of FP+ guests. This merge process kept the SB line moving (slowly) and slowed down the FP+ line. If the ratio between same-day FP+s and prereserved FP+s remain the same as the old SB/FP+ ratio, then a guest with a prereserved FP+ probably is waiting on average the same amount of time as he did prior to the test, I think. The only difference is that the merge happens not toward the front of the line, but at the back of the physical line. Again, I don't think that the merge point would change the prereserved FP+ wait time, as long as the ratios stay consistent.

 

[djlaosc]

I'm not sure if this has been asked in here yet, but would this Fastpass+ count as one of your three? Or does it work as an additional pass (like Be Our Guest)?

 

[dadddio]

Of course it's not your job... I was just trying to get your complete perspective, and what's the point of a conversation when a participant just doesn't respond to certain things that are brought up? I thought forums were for discussion.

You keep saying "without waiting," but you are waiting. You're just waiting somewhere else. And my worry is that if this sort of thing does become more prevalent (and at this early stage of testing, I think it's a valid hypothetical to consider), your time spent "not waiting" will end up being wasted anyway, but with less flexibility. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I just thought it was something valid to be brought up. Clearly you think it's a great idea no matter what.

I do disagree with your apparent idea that your wait time for an attraction starts when you reserve your FP+ for the attraction. That is a novel argument regarding why FP guests have priority over SB guests in a line, but most of that argument went away when FP+ was introduced since you would now be waiting in 3 'virtual' queues (maybe four, depending on how this test is managed) as well as whatever physical queues that you wait in during the time that you hold your FP+s. Also, the concept of trading FP+s for different attractions and times confounds that argument, in my opinion.

Regarding you theory that I think that it's a great idea no matter what, I can only assume that you are not reading my posts as I have listed a few reservations that i have regarding the current test.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I do disagree with your apparent idea that your wait time for an attraction starts when you reserve your FP+ for the attraction. That is a novel argument regarding why FP guests have priority over SB guests in a line, but most of that argument went away when FP+ was introduced since you would now be waiting in 3 'virtual' queues (maybe four, depending on how this test is managed) as well as whatever physical queues that you wait in during the time that you hold your FP+s. Also, the concept of trading FP+s for different attractions and times confounds that argument, in my opinion.

If you can't do anything besides shop during your "virtual queue," then yes, to me, you might as well be in line. I get that's not the case currently; it just seems like it could come to that should the practice be expanded.

 

[prberk]

Since these 'return times' have been folded into the FP+ system, there is some ability to choose a return time that works for you.

That may be a thought, at least different than the paper approach used with BoG Restaurant.

But I still say that the whole thing has just gotten out of hand. A stand-by line is simply self-regulating: it it is too long, I will choose not to wait; if the wait is acceptable to me, then I will wait. Simple.

At some point, the reasonable idea of FastPass has become rediculous, though, and more work than it should be. And I think that the new concept this year of a CREDIT CARD GUARANTEE of most table-service restaurants now combines to make the whole process a land-mine of planning problems that can seriously make your vacation much more like work and penalty-avoidance than it needs to be.

Probably the credit card guarantee for so many ADRs now has really made what used to be a nice planning feature into an inflexible, unnecessary mess -- for a place that already costs so much just to walk in. it takes away from fun and spontaneity. And that is true for us veterans. Can you imagine being a newbie that just decided to come to Disney World and see what it has to offer?

Have you ever tried to explain to a newbie why they would need to know months in advance exactly which park they want to experience on which day, not to mention which new-experience-to-them ride they want to make a solid reservation for, and then explain to them that they also need to pick (again, months in advance) exactly when and where to eat AND PUT DOWN A CREDIT CARD FOR EACH TIME THEY WANT TO SIT DOWN TO EAT? And that, if they get there and decide do so something different, or enjoy something that morning that they may want to continue doing (and change plans for) -- or they get to Anna and Elsa and have come back during their dinner time -- they might need to forfeit $10 per person?

I think the whole thing is becoming a mess. And unnecessarily so.

 

[dadddio]

That assumes we're on the same ratio. If it's all one line from the point you scan your Mickey band - the ratio would grossly change. I guess it all depends on if that FP being given for the day of is considered to be the same as scanning a prereserved FP.

I think that it doesn't matter. As long as the FPs being made available are in the same ratio as the CMs were previously admitting guests at the front of the line, then I think that wait times for prereserved FP+ guests will be the same.

 

[dadddio]

If you can't do anything besides shop during your "virtual queue," then yes, to me, you might as well be in line. I get that's not the case currently; it just seems like it could come to that should the practice be expanded.

I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps a thread to discuss the idea of FP-only being made park wide will give you better discussion on that hypothetical issue. I'm not exactly sure where that would go. The imagineering section, perhaps?

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps a thread to discuss the idea of FP-only being made park wide will give you better discussion on that hypothetical issue. I'm not exactly sure where that would go. The imagineering section, perhaps?

Perhaps. It just seemed like a valid point to bring up in a thread about the testing of that very process. Anyway... moving on..

 

[dadddio]

That may be a thought, at least different than the paper approach used with BoG Restaurant.

But I still say that the whole thing has just gotten out of hand. A stand-by line is simply self-regulating: it it is too long, I will choose not to wait; if the wait is acceptable to me, then I will wait. Simple.

At some point, the reasonable idea of FastPass has become rediculous, though, and more work than it should be. And I think that the new concept this year of a CREDIT CARD GUARANTEE of most table-service restaurants now combines to make the whole process a land-mine of planning problems that can seriously make your vacation much more like work and penalty-avoidance than it needs to be.

Probably the credit card guarantee for so many ADRs now has really made what used to be a nice planning feature into an inflexible, unnecessary mess -- for a place that already costs so much just to walk in. it takes away from fun and spontaneity. And that is true for us veterans. Can you imagine being a newbie that just decided to come to Disney World and see what it has to offer?

Have you ever tried to explain to a newbie why they would need to know months in advance exactly which park they want to experience on which day, not to mention which new-experience-to-them ride they want to make a solid reservation for, and then explain to them that they also need to pick exactly and where to eat AND PUT DOWN A CREDIT CARD FOR EACH TIME THEY WANT TO SIT DOWN TO EAT? And that, if they get there and decide do so something different, or enjoy something that morning that they want to continue doing and change plans for -- or they get to Anna and Elsa and have come back during their dinner time -- they might need to forfeit $10 per person?

I think the whole thing is becoming a mess. And unnecessarily so.

I don't think that I was aware of the credit card guarantee being expanded to all TS restaurant ADRs. Several restaurants had them last fall when we were there.

It should be noted that I am not completely against the idea of having to give your credit card when making these reservations because it will stop people from making superfluous reservations and then simply not using them. It should, therefore, make it a bit easier for people who actually intend to keep their reservations to obtain them.

 

[bethymouse]

again.

 

[righttrack]

Coming soon IaSW Fastpasses out 120 days in advance

 

[CDavid]

I'm not seeing how that could happen.

X=total guests interested in meeting A&E
Y=total guests that can be accomodated
Z=total guests that cannot be accomodated

X-Y=Z no matter which process that you are using.

The total number of guests interested in meeting Anna & Elsa, X, is not a constant. With most any attraction, as the wait time decreases (price charged for the experience), more persons are willing to wait (pay) that amount, and thus demand for the Anna & Elsa meet & greet rises.

The point you make about waiting somewhere other than a traditional line also potentially raises demand. You may not be willing to wait in a 3 hour line, but if you can ride other things instead while waiting (even if the wait is longer), you may then decide to see Anna & Elsa as well. Either way, more guests will now be competing for the same (fixed) number of 'slots'.

Not really. Either way, the guest is being disappointed.

A guest or family making a conscious choice to pass on an activity, because they aren't willing to wait in such a long line doesn't produce the same disappointment as being shut-out of the experience.

A more important question, in my opinion, is whether these same-day FP+s increment against your FP+ allotment. In which case, I imagine that those people who made FP+ prereservations that did not include the A&E M&G are going to be shut out every time.

This is a valid question, particularly as guests may find it necessary to (much like the debacle over at Be Our Guest) to claim their return time FP+ early in the day before they are all given out, and quite possibly before they have had a chance to use their pre-reserved FP+'s.

 

[flynnibus]

I didn't realize that I was required to respond to every word that you or anyone else types. I thought that this was an internet forum, not my job.

This thread was 10x better until you came in and derailed it. Go take your stuff to any number of FP+ threads you've already soiled.

 

[snayak]

I don't think that I was aware of the credit card guarantee being expanded to all TS restaurant ADRs. Several restaurants had them last fall when we were there.

It should be noted that I am not completely against the idea of having to give your credit card when making these reservations because it will stop peopl4e from making superfluous reservations and then simply not using them. It should, therefore, make it a bit easier for people who actually intend to keep their reservations to obtain them.

I agree with the principle of credit card guarantee - however in practice it kind of stinks. We're going with a group of 8 (so we have the honor of paying $80 to not eat a meal somewhere) and have basically cancelled all of our ADRs that weren't character meals/must-dos (so we have just 1 at Akershus).

Just too many variables to ensure that the stars will align and we'll be ready, willing, and physically at a particular location to eat within 15 minutes of what we scheduled months ago...I'm not willing to bet $80/meal for that, especially since you have to cancel the day before (till midnight) and I can't seem to find a way to call/reschedule on the fly ("hey, we have a 3pm ADR, we'll be there at 3:30, please don't charge me $80 for being a no-show!"). At least you get an hour return window for FP+.

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[BrianV]

again.

Agreed. I'm not touching this one.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Guest satisfaction increases from lower waits can just be negated by increased crowding. Theme parks are still being designed with the idea that sizable numbers of people will be standing in line somewhere. The more Disney invests in going wait-less the more they need to invest in additional capacity. Ideally this would be done with a lot of A and B attractions that people can easily wonder into for brief moments; not E attractions that have a higher capacity but draw additional crowds. The problem though is that such small attractions are not considered cost effective and FastPass never seemed to have lived up to its expectations for increased spending.

 

[rct247]

Can anyone else confirm if the standby return times (which uses FP+ Kiosk) and Fastpass+ (which are the advanced bookings) are combined in one line for this test? If so, how long is the wait?

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

That's the idea... you see it clearly in Epcot, where rides that used to be walk-ons now have 30 minute lines. Fastpass+ is designed to spread crowds evenly across all attractions, as it's based on a guest survey that said people don't care what they ride, just the number of rides they get to see.

That stinks for those who are interested in specific attractions though.

I know they did a trial over this at Soarin a couple months back. Now let's say they implement the new no stand by procedure for good at Soarin and Test Track. Those 2 have the longest waits in the parks, by far. Now all those guests who would have been in those standby lines are free to do whatever they want. If the guest survey said they don't care what they ride, just the number or rides they get to see.... where are these people going to head? They're going to increase the wait times at SSE, M:S, Imagination, Nemo, The Land, etc... These rides usually never have much of a line. With FP+, the wait times increased. Now add all the people no longer in stand by for T and S and you have yourselfa 15-20 minutes wait for Imagination. That's still not a long wait time, but about 15-20 longer than it usually would be.

I just had a thought... if based on guest surveys that state they want to be able to ride MORE attractions.... why would they think these guests would go and spend money if they're not waiting in line? Guests who wants more rides are going to go wait standby for something else, not go spend money. You would think they would want to build MORE attractions, since that's what the guests want, right?

 

[prberk]

I don't think that I was aware of the credit card guarantee being expanded to all TS restaurant ADRs. Several restaurants had them last fall when we were there.

It should be noted that I am not completely against the idea of having to give your credit card when making these reservations because it will stop peopl4e from making superfluous reservations and then simply not using them. It should, therefore, make it a bit easier for people who actually intend to keep their reservations to obtain them.

I think that it is not for all but for most TS restaurants now, at least all character experiences and at least good number more.

I understand your idea about the credit card guarantee for keeping people from making reservations that they do not intend to use; but I think that there are now a few problems:

1. The company has marketed the reservation system (and now FP+) as to seem to make it like you are expected to plan out and make reservations for your whole vacation months before you leave, to the point that many people almost feel like they have to... which itself perpetuates the problem of availability.
2. Once you have done that, it is hard to allow in time for changing your mind and being spontaneous, without feeling you might not have a decent place to eat if it is not planned; and now, with widespread credit card guarantees for TS, you are likely to be penalized if you change your mind once onsight from what you planned two months before leaving. And you have to let them know by the day before (not sure the exact timeframe, but it is not the day of). So, you cannot have any spontaneity on the day of your reservation if it affects your reservation (unless you can afford the penalty).
3. The property is so large that a newbie (or even some veterans) may not have enough time to get to their ADR on time in another park if they have to now wait for return time for Anna and Elsa (or BoG), as opposed to just waiting in line if they choose.

Again, my main point is that the amount of planning now expected for a $100-day theme park that used to pride itself in customer service and taking you away from the real world has gotten rediculous.

As for the ADR part, it made more sense (especially with the size of the property and allowing for spontaneity) when they were not called reservations but were treated as "priority seating"... The Priority Seating system seemed to work more like the orginal FastPass, in that it guaranteed you a good spot on the wait list, but not an actual reservation. You were "on the list" at check-in, and sat down to wait. And no credit card required. If you did not show, the inside line went faster.

Anyway, I just think a few good ideas (FastPass, Priority Seating reservations) have been taken too far by some MBAs or corporate lifestylers, and have passed the point of no longer helping the experience but actually hindering it.

Again, for a $100-per-day experience that not too long ago was about $70 a day with a lot less hassle and lot more flexible.