And Bob Igers favorite ride is..

DrAlice

Well-Known Member
Theme Park Revenue
View attachment 416194

View attachment 416195

Look, I'm going to have many if any supports of this point of view with all the uber negative anything Disney has done post 2000 is the worst crowd that permeate the forums. However, Iger must be doing something right as the numbers keep going up. I would not call it dumb luck or in spite of all his horrible decisions, people still come. Guests have a multitude of options and they keep choosing Disney parks to spend at least part of their entertainment dollars.

I'm not a huge fan of the all IP mandate as some of my favorite rides are non IP even fairly recent examples like Mystic Manor. But that does work for the average guest. My cousin and her family are coming to Disneyland this weekend. They come once every few years. I asked what their most looking forward to. The answer was Star Wars and Marvel because that is what they and their kid love. They like the classic attractions, but things like GE and Guardians are the reason they are visiting. They are buying a lightsaber and meeting Spiderman. That is why they are flying in and that is why they are coming to Disneyland over the other theme parks in the area. For a lot of people that is why they choose to come.

You may not like it, but Iger has brought huge shareholder value and much of that is based on the popularity and profitability of the theme park business.

Trying to critically look at these numbers.... Talk through this with me... Shanghai opened in 2009, right? So if these are global numbers, then no matter how successful (or not) Shanghai was upon opening, wouldn't global attendance be expected to go up from 2009? To clarify: you have added a park that people are attending (even if it isn't very many people), so if all the other parks are doing well, then overall attendance should go up. However, it looks flat for a couple of years and then eventually we see a steady increase. So, doesn't that really mean that attendance was DOWN at other parks, and the opening of Shanghai balanced that out? hmm.... Nevermind... my date was wrong, so this is all faulty logic. oops...

Anyway, I guess my real point is this: these numbers would be much more useful to the current discussion if they were broken down by park. I think most people in here only care about the California numbers.

Just my random thoughts.... :D
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
"Michael Nathanson, a longtime media analyst, estimates that Disney will spend $24 billion on new attractions, hotels and ships over the next five years. That’s more than Disney paid for Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm combined."


They were still spending earlier, but the focus was on the cruise ships and International parks early in his tenure.
They were not spending earlier. The vast majority of costs related to Shanghai Disneyland were carried by Shanghai, not Disney. Today’s spending is because they ran out of ideas on how to stop building attractions. The multi billion dollar project intended to forever delay the need for attractions failed. Capacity is strained and costs have spiraled completely out of control. What bought a nondescript coaster themed like India or whatever at the beginning of Iger’s tenure now cannot even buy Pixar Pier (and yes, that is after adjusting for inflation). The return on investment for every dollar spent on development has become much worse under Iger’s leadership of the parks.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
So in your mind the cost of everything in the parks (including parking and tickets) is "where it belongs"?

I honestly don't the answer. I don't have any access to the data. However, it seems obvious that until this summer that no matter how much Disney raised prices, attendance still rose. The market clearly was bearing what Disney was charging and then some. If guests are willing to pay $25 for parking and you only charge $20, you are not doing your job as a publicly traded company. Disney has been incrementally raising prices as Eisner identified they were undervaluing the parks.

It's only been a summer, but perhaps they are hitting a ceiling. Perhaps not. Is this a momentary bump in the road or a sign they have hit a ceiling? How Disney reacts in the next year, especially considering a possible recession is looming will be interesting.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Trying to critically look at these numbers.... Talk through this with me... Shanghai opened in 2009, right? So if these are global numbers, then no matter how successful (or not) Shanghai was upon opening, wouldn't global attendance be expected to go up from 2009? To clarify: you have added a park that people are attending (even if it isn't very many people), so if all the other parks are doing well, then overall attendance should go up. However, it looks flat for a couple of years and then eventually we see a steady increase. So, doesn't that really mean that attendance was DOWN at other parks, and the opening of Shanghai balanced that out? hmm....

Anyway, I guess my real point is this: these numbers would be much more useful to the current discussion if they were broken down by park. I think most people in here only care about the California numbers.

Just my random thoughts.... :D

Shanghai opened in summer 2016. It adds roughly 10 million a year to the attendance number since then. During earnings calls, Disney will mention domestic attendance numbers and they are almost always up year over year even with no new parks in the US,

I understand most people are only interested in talking about the domestic parks, but Iger is responsible for the entire company. He has to be judged through that lens.
 

DrAlice

Well-Known Member
Shanghai opened in summer 2016. It adds roughly 10 million a year to the attendance number since then. During earnings calls, Disney will mention domestic attendance numbers and they are almost always up year over year even with no new parks in the US,

I understand most people are only interested in talking about the domestic parks, but Iger is responsible for the entire company. He has to be judged through that lens.

Oh bother... I totally misread my source of the opening date. You are correct, ignore me. :rolleyes:

Carry on with the arguments...... :D
 

mandelbrot

Well-Known Member
These aren't even complaints people make about modern attractions. Ruining realism? Literally the biggest complaint amongst people regarding Galaxy's Edge is the joke "immersion" aspect of the land. Nobody cares about that kind of junk. People here love the simple and the elegant, exactly what Pirates is.
I think for many of us, Pirates has a massive nostalgia factor because it wowed us as kids. I've taken some adults who were experiencing it for the first time and their collective response was that it was "nice', "relaxing", "long", and "pretty cool". They were not really criticizing the ride but not blown away by it either.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I think for many of us, Pirates has a massive nostalgia factor because it wowed us as kids. I've taken some adults who were experiencing it for the first time and their collective response was that it was "nice', "relaxing", "long", and "pretty cool". They were not really criticizing the ride but not blown away by it either.

Pirates is as popular as it is because it rewards rerides. Same with Mansion.

They're incredibly deep rides with tons going on and tons of history.... They hold up to close scrutiny and reward guests who take an interest in them. That's why they're popular, it's not because of nostalgia.

Many modern WDI rides don't have this level of depth and artistic merit- they're surface level experiences that rely on changing the ride music or something to get guests back on.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
What was the mandate for Ant-Man and the Wasp: Nano Battle?

(To be clear, I didn't hate the ride, but it's the textbook definition of "wasted opportunity")

I haven't been on that one yet. Theoretically it could have been a very good ride.

I don't think Iger would really have anything to do with it being unsuccessful at that level. That's more on WDI or maybe Chapek.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
I think for many of us, Pirates has a massive nostalgia factor because it wowed us as kids. I've taken some adults who were experiencing it for the first time and their collective response was that it was "nice', "relaxing", "long", and "pretty cool". They were not really criticizing the ride but not blown away by it either.
It’s a ride that requires digestion. There’s so much brilliant within that attraction that are just unappreciated.
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
"Michael Nathanson, a longtime media analyst, estimates that Disney will spend $24 billion on new attractions, hotels and ships over the next five years. That’s more than Disney paid for Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm combined."
This number is inflated.

$750 Million of that comes courtesy of the beleaguered Hong Kong government. $2.3 Billion will be invested into Tokyo Disney Sea’s new port. Around $500 Million USD to finish off Tokyo Disneyland's expansion. Say Zootopia ends up costing 300 million, so there's another solid $150+ Million from Shanghai Disneyland. So around $4 Billion of that doesn't even count as a Robert Iger investment. He can thank his many partners for coughing large sums of money.

And a contraction in CapEx at the parks is coming if something is not done soon. Disneyland's parking garage is done, Galaxy's Edge is done, Falcon is finished, and RotR is almost finished (though rather over budget). They have a glorified Spiderman Toy Story Midway Mania coming, some painted warehouses, and clone of a screen based attraction on its way. Disneyland's spending in early 2020 should be a fraction of early 2019. Walt Disney World is finishing up its own Galaxy's Edge, Mickey Ride, Skyliner, and Rat ride in under a year. While it feels like there is a lot in the pipeline at Walt Disney World, most announced major expenditures should wrap up in 2 years.

Disney is doubling down on its old favorite business, the cruise line. Very very high margins and speedy return on investment. Want to know what Iger was doing during the period of neglect in the early 2010s? He was spending it on cruise ships!
I think this would be more accurately stated as "not doing much of anything with the domestic parks."

Most of the attractive economic growth in the world has not been taking place in California, and only slightly more has happened in Florida. His decision making has reflected that.
Revenue and profit does not. Where has the majority of growth come from over the last decade? Walt Disney World and Disneyland have been on an incredible run. Disneyland's attendance has shot up by nearly 50% since 2009! Walt Disney World has had softer attendance growth, but remarkable hotel occupancy driving the best performance in decades. These supposedly slow growth markets have been the source of almost Walt Disney Parks and Resorts' success. All with minimal investment on the part of Iger. What about the big investments internationally? Let's see... From the beginning of his tenure Disneyland Paris experienced a nightmarishly destructive decade. Hong Kong Disneyland has had hundreds of millions invested while still making essentially no money. Shanghai Disneyland, Iger's legacy project, has either posted losses or essentially broken even since opening.

That's not to say they shouldn't invest in international properties or accept medium term losses for longterm success, but the success has come from the very businesses he hasn't invested in. Adding capacity to these parks shouldn't only be a matter of driving new gate clicks (though that will follow) but also ensuring millions of guest's first exposure to Disney is positive. Most theme park leaders would panic if attendance rose 50% at their complex, and rush to add expansions to make sure each guest felt comfortable and satisfied. Not Disney! As lines get longer and prices go up, a sour taste is being left in thousands of guest's mouths. Often I'm shocked at what they let us experience.

Their product is a theme park, and they do nothing to improve for the sake of improvement. That's like if Apple never updated the iPhone because the iPhone is successful. Yes it is, but in order to keep it at the forefront of design and drive repeat customers constant change should be happening. Is updating the iPhone bad for margins? Yes! But it's worth it to keep customer satisfaction high and drive repeat sales. Plussing should be happening to the attractions constantly. An attraction should look better 10 years after it was built than it did opening day. One off attractions like Tron at the Magic Kingdom should be being announced yearly to constantly expand capacity.

What's really amazing is how affordable what I described is. With depreciation spread over 40 years, Disney could spend $200 Million USD a year on new attractions and updates at each resort, and the whole thing would cost them $10 Million USD a year in additional depreciation. Instead of sinking massive amounts of capital into rock work, Disney could spend on things like the Big Thunder upgrades, Fantasyland dark ride improvements, and the adding the Hatbox Ghost. Relatively cheap things compared to Rise of the Resistance that ended up becoming beloved instantly.

But nah, that's not quite as exciting as a synergistic celebration of one the brands that drives revenue across multiples businesses while maximizing returns for shareholders and creating longterm value for our portfolio all while decreasing risk and improving margins increasing customer satisfaction creating positive guest interactions improving free cash fl...
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
This number is inflated.

$750 Million of that comes courtesy of the beleaguered Hong Kong government. $2.3 Billion will be invested into Tokyo Disney Sea’s new port. Around $500 Million USD to finish off Tokyo Disneyland's expansion. Say Zootopia ends up costing 300 million, so there's another solid $150+ Million from Shanghai Disneyland. So around $4 Billion of that doesn't even count as a Robert Iger investment. He can thank his many partners for coughing large sums of money.
So your point is that Disney is only directly coughing up $20 billion over five years in the parks? As if that is some sort of small investment? Disney fans are hard to please indeed.

Want to know what Iger was doing during the period of neglect in the early 2010s? He was spending it on cruise ships!
As I've said, he was spending. He was growing a new business for the company. That takes a larger initial investment. You can be critical of him for not spending on what you want him to spend it on. He has been spending throughout his tenure though. That's been my point.

Walt Disney World and Disneyland have been on an incredible run. Disneyland's attendance has shot up by nearly 50% since 2009!
Thanks for backing up my point. The parks have thrived in terms of attendance and financially under Iger. I don't agree with all the decisions that have been made, but the results speak for themselves. Iger deserves credit for being in charge during this time.

You have a well thought out post and I agree with some of the points. What I don't agree with by some (not you) is that Iger gets all of the blame and none of the credit for what happens in the parks. He does have an understanding of the parks, especially for what is required of him as the CEO of a large company with multiple segments. He has spent money. I'm not sure why Disney should be expected to open a new billion land every year in every park.

If people don't like the IP on everything mandate, then support and be more vocal of the original stuff. HM is three times busier during the portion of the year it has an IP attached to it. If HM wasn't a walk on most of the time it was in regular mode and slammed when it has an IP overlay, then Disney may change their tune. All they are seeing is that attractions are more popular when IP is involved.

One of the biggest criticism's of GE is that it doesn't look like the movies. I loved the idea that they were using Star Wars as an inspiration to go out and create something new with Star Wars DNA in it. The lesson they learned from the less than stellar opening is that people want a carbon copy of the movies. Guess what we'll get next time. And when we do it will be Iger's fault even though guests have told him time and time again that is what they want.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
As I've said, he was spending. He was growing a new business for the company. That takes a larger initial investment. You can be critical of him for not spending on what you want him to spend it on. He has been spending throughout his tenure though. That's been my point.
What new business? His early tenure was him shutting stuff down to focus on core competencies, a plan that involved selling the parks. The primary driver of spending on actual attractions and capacity has been reluctantly under external pressures.

Thanks for backing up my point. The parks have thrived in terms of attendance and financially under Iger. I don't agree with all the decisions that have been made, but the results speak for themselves. Iger deserves credit for being in charge during this time.
You don’t derserve credit for just sort of maintaining the status quo. That isn’t your work attracting people. You’re just not making it worse.

You have a well thought out post and I agree with some of the points. What I don't agree with by some (not you) is that Iger gets all of the blame and none of the credit for what happens in the parks. He does have an understanding of the parks, especially for what is required of him as the CEO of a large company with multiple segments. He has spent money. I'm not sure why Disney should be expected to open a new billion land every year in every park.
What understanding does he have? He thought it was a dead-end business that could not grow. If he really understood things he wouldn’t be spending $1 billion on a land and he wouldn’t keep thinking that others with no experience will be able to reign in those ridiculous costs.

If people don't like the IP on everything mandate, then support and be more vocal of the original stuff. HM is three times busier during the portion of the year it has an IP attached to it. If HM wasn't a walk on most of the time it was in regular mode and slammed when it has an IP overlay, then Disney may change their tune. All they are seeing is that attractions are more popular when IP is involved.
The franchise mandate has absolutely nothing to do with “business.” It came about after the success of the nondescript coaster, which remains a better return on investment than any of Iger’s franchise projects.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
While there's not doubt that POTC is a 'safe' choice for the CEO's favorite because of it's popularity among fans and casual visitors alike, and the Walt connections, but let's not forget another reason that it's sure to give Iger the warm fuzzies in a way that no other attraction does:
Capture.JPG


In addition to their strong performance at domestic box offices and ongoing merchandise sales, the Pirates films pull huge numbers internationally, in a way that very few franchises can manage. They're especially successful in China, which has often eluded other franchises due to their censorship laws and audiences' lack of affinity for legacy franchises (Star Wars). It's also Disney's only real home-grown franchise in the modern era that has had mass success cornering the "boy market" that Disney so often struggles with.

Iger has been on record saying Pirates is his favorite ride for many years now. Given his affinity for IPs and wide-reaching franchises rather than original content, is it any surprise? Sure, people visiting the parks enjoy it, but it's so much more than that to the chief of a global multimedia conglomerate.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
You don’t derserve credit for just sort of maintaining the status quo. That isn’t your work attracting people. You’re just not making it worse.
Attendance growth and profits have accelerated since he took over.

The franchise mandate has absolutely nothing to do with “business.” It came about after the success of the nondescript coaster, which remains a better return on investment than any of Iger’s franchise projects.

I'd love to hear about Everest being a better ROI than Pixar or Marvel.

His job is to bring shareholder value and he has done that. He has shown he knows what he is doing because of the results that were achieved. The numbers speak for themselves

I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Feel free to continue the irrational bashing. I'm off to pick up my cousin and her family from the airport now and head to Disneyland for the weekend. The once happiest place on Earth only to be ruined by Bob Iger.
 

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