An Untouchable’s Eventual Fate?

[Homemade Imagineering]

I think the biggest reason why Splash could get completely changed whereas The Haunted Mansion or Pirates will probably live on forever is the drop. Anyone could go on flat dark rides but millions of people will never experience the greatest dark ride of all time simply because of the drop. The more kid, parent, grandparent accessible the ride is the better chance it survives as each new generation experiences it with their family.

This exactly. You can attribute this to IASW's survival, as well as Potc and HM's survival so far. Looking back on it, maybe I thought too much into this and quarantine just has me going a bit insane haha! I definitely think there is a certain amount of sacredness when it comes to the core quintessential attractions, and most of them are still popular to this day among guests. Also, might I mention that there are many people using the argument that Splash will be "the same ride" when it transforms into PatF, simply because the ride system is being reused, and let's be honest, your average guest isn't riding splash mountain to see the reused America Sings figures, (although there are many including myself who ride if for that reason) but rather to experience the drop and the overall thrill element Splash offers. This thrill is nonexistent when it comes to the core, sacred, quintessential Disney attractions, such as IASW, or Potc. people ride those attractions for nostalgic purposes, or because many generally enjoy them. Changing the theme on any of those sacred attractions completely changes the attractions appeal, because everyone originally rode them for the purposes I previously mentioned, and if they're no longer appealing, and the nostalgia factor disappears, and the attraction falls flat. Regardless of what happens with Splash, it will still be the one ride that everyone rides because of the thrill element. I hope this makes sense.

 

[networkpro]

I understand your first statement, I was trying to capture the OP's intent that rides can be viewed as works of art created by Imagineers and so many talented people. Imagineers who built these rides really paid attention to the details to create them. Similar to how a painter puts so much effort into a painting.

As per your second statement, we know what the OP's intent was, and "considered too important to be changed" is a definition of the word "sacred." It does, however, have religious meaning when used in different context as well, but that is not the case here so it isn't a misuse of the word, IMO. A bit to strong of a word for a theme park attraction? Perhaps, yes

Not if you're a nihilist, then nothing has a meaning other than the one you hypocritically make up yourself.

 

[champdisney]

First off, paragraphs would be really helpful.

Instead of complaining, why don’t you just highlight as you read along?

 

[drizgirl]

Instead of complaining, why don’t you just highlight as you read along?

I assume the OP posted to get as many opinions as possible. They want people to read it. But many will just bypass a wall of text.

Regardless, they made paragraphs, and it's helpful. Thanks OP!

 

[champdisney]

I assume the OP posted to get as many opinions as possible. They want people to read it. But many will just bypass a wall of text.

Regardless, they made paragraphs, and it's helpful. Thanks OP!

My regards towards those who can’t find the time to highlight sentences as they read along, I was under the impression that we’re just killing time on here. I’m just not one to act like I’m grading papers.

As for the conversation at hand. I think the established attractions at the parks (HM, POTC, IASW, Pan’s Flight and so on) will remain as is but will continue doing as it’s been doing for years already, and that is evolve as the landscape of our society continues to change. I don’t see these attractions not existing and I don’t think it matters if the generation who experienced these attractions firsthand are no longer here. These Disney stables have been passed down through generations and will continue to do so.

It’s the circleeee of lifeeee and it moves on even if the changes made in these attractions aren’t remotely likable. As Iger not so long ago stated, “We are not a museum!”

 

[larryz]

At the end of the day however, I'm the consumer, and if I don't enjoy the product, I'm not obligated to consume that product.

Unless you're addicted to it...

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

(HM, POTC, IASW, Pan’s Flight and so on) will remain as is but will continue doing as it’s been doing for years already, and that is evolve as the landscape of our society continues to change. I don’t see these attractions not existing and I don’t think it matters if the generation who experienced these attractions firsthand are no longer here.

I agree 100%, and I think these attractions should receive changes and upgrades from time to time, which is completely okay! Change is good when something you love is being plussed, and despite many feeling resentful towards some of the changes to these attractions, (see the auction scene or Disney characters in IASW) many guests love the new changes and additions.

Personally, the changes to those attractions haven’t really affected my enjoyment levels of them, and while I do feel some of the changes are a bit weaker, I don’t mind them too much. Also, the reason I mentioned age may play a factor into how these attractions continue to exist, is because technology is evolving so quickly nowadays, and the current generation is growing up with phones and so will the future generations. Now I understand that this is a completely separate discussion, but it does play a factor into how the parks evolve. Heck, it was even discussed in the Imagineering story, episode 5 I believe. My point is, that the older generations who got to experience these attractions in their heyday’s have great nostalgia for them, and the attraction’s will have to evolve from their current states to stay popular among guests, even if that may be decades from now. One question remains of course, and that is whether Disney will want to invest money into updating the classics or if they’ll eventually find it more convenient to just replace them with the hottest IP. Only time will tell.

 

[champdisney]

Heck, it was even discussed in the Imagineering story, episode 5 I believe. My point is, that the older generations who got to experience these attractions in their heyday’s have great nostalgia for them, and the attraction’s will have to evolve from their current states to stay popular among guests, even if that may be decades from now.

If the attraction is worth it to them, they’ll do whatever is necessary to refreshen it. I think what Disney is aiming towards to is getting their attractions to go “SMART” such as having characters and environments interact with guests. It’ll happen one attraction at a time but Lord knows when.

One question remains of course, and that is whether Disney will want to invest money into updating the classics or if they’ll eventually find it more convenient to just replace them with the hottest IP. Only time will tell.

Your guess is as good as mine. Just sucks that the current leadership at TWDC more particularly the parks solely depends on what’s currently hot. The problem is, Disney doesn’t know how to create timeless attractions out these popular IPs.

 

[UNCgolf]

Hardly analogous. You can paint any number of paintings, with no need to paint over an original masterpiece. But real estate is limited within the existing parks. If a new attraction needs to go in, then something's got to give way. Logic says the victim will be the least attended.

I have a violent dislike of using the word "sacred" in relation to a theme park attraction. It's just really bad misuse of the word. Some would say blasphemous. Call them iconic. Call them beloved. To that I can relate. But please stop calling them sacred.

Real estate is eventually limited, sure, but all of the parks at WDW currently have room to add new attractions without replacing anything. They should fill out every available spot before they start replacing anything that currently exists. That's one of the major problems with Hollywood Studios -- they "added" 5 new rides recently between Toy Story Land, Galaxy's Edge, and MMRR, but they all replaced previously existing areas and attractions so the park didn't actually gain that much in terms of capacity.

Sacrosanct is probably the word you'd like them to use instead, although sacred seems like a strange hill to die on. It's been used as a synonym for sacrosanct for several decades at least.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Alright everyone, I feel like I owe you all a bit of an explanation to my sudden posting spree and the creation of this thread. So, last night, I began talking to YouTuber Alex the Historian, who is a former cast member who knows some people in WDI. He and I conversed about the subject of untouchable attractions, and during this conversation, it’s a small world was brought up.

When this happened, Alex mentioned how he believes the attraction has around 5 to 10 years to survive, because back in 2018, management considered a removal of the attraction along with ToonTown. Now, yes, 2018 was a while ago, but he still believes that Disney could revive this concept at any time. Of course, if they were to do this, nothing would really happen to ToonTown because Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway is saving the land from demolition, but they could still use IASW as an expansion pad for fantasyland.

Anyways, when I was informed of it’s a small world’s vulnerability, I immediately took to the forums to create this thread because I’ll admit, I got pretty worried when I heard such an iconic attraction was on the chopping block at some point, and may make its way towards the chopping block in the future. It’s truly upsetting to think about, and for someone with anxiety and an obsession with the attraction to hear this, I naturally freaked out and immediately started this thread as a comfort zone to hear what others thought of untouchable attractions, seemingly hoping that many would agree with me that sacred attractions do exist and matter.

So in conclusion, I apologize if this thread seemed unnecessary to some of you, or just plain silly, but at least you now know why I created it. I’m not trying to create some viral rumor here, I feel like talking to people about this will help me feel better about the situation. I’m okay, and I would never do anything to hurt myself if the attraction was indeed being removed. I’m simply obsessed with the attraction, and it’s played an integral part of my life so far, so losing the attraction would hurt beyond belief. Feel free to call me dramatic, or over anxious, it’s okay, because I understand. I thought I just owe you all an explanation. I also want to make it clear that I am in no way attempting to hurt anyone’s reputation in any way by posting this. I simply don’t know what do do with this information, and it’s making me feel generally upset that Disney would even consider the removal of such an iconic attraction.

Finally, I don’t really feel like I have many other interests in life. Ever since a child I was just never able to get into sports or anything like that, it’s always been Disney and animatronic technology for me. Losing it’s a small world for me, means losing my entire interest in the Disney Parks, because at that point I’ll no longer even want to visit. I also feel horrible for Rolly Crump and Richard Sherman, since they worked on the attraction and are so talented. Destroying IASW will destroy their imprint on the parks, and it makes me feel gutted inside knowing this. I had the pleasure of meeting Richard a few years back, and I’ve written to Rolly before. I’ve even met Bob Gurr before, so I am quite fond of the Disney legends and I have an extreme amount of respect for every one of them. If this is the way the company decides to head from here on out, I just can’t see myself enjoying Disney, and to me that’s just insane. So at the end of the day, If anything ends up happening with the attraction, I will be okay. Life will go on just as it always does, but there will be a part of me that will be missing. I hope you all can understand where I’m coming from. Anyways, take care of yourselves everyone. Stay healthy, and I wish you all the best!

Here is the screenshot of Alex’s reply:

 

[champdisney]

Alright everyone, I feel like I owe you all a bit of an explanation to my sudden posting spree and the creation of this thread. So, last night, I began talking to YouTuber Alex the Historian, who is a former cast member who knows some people in WDI. He and I conversed about the subject of untouchable attractions, and during this conversation, it’s a small world was brought up.

When this happened, Alex mentioned how he believes the attraction has around 5 to 10 years to survive, because back in 2018, management considered a removal of the attraction along with ToonTown. Now, yes, 2018 was a while ago, but he still believes that Disney could revive this concept at any time. Of course, if they were to do this, nothing would really happen to ToonTown because Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway is saving the land from demolition, but they could still use IASW as an expansion pad for fantasyland.

Anyways, when I was informed of it’s a small world’s vulnerability, I immediately took to the forums to create this thread because I’ll admit, I got pretty worried when I heard such an iconic attraction was on the chopping block at some point, and may make its way towards the chopping block in the future. It’s truly upsetting to think about, and for someone with anxiety and an obsession with the attraction to hear this, I naturally freaked out and immediately started this thread as a comfort zone to hear what others thought of untouchable attractions, seemingly hoping that many would agree with me that sacred attractions do exist and matter.

So in conclusion, I apologize if this thread seemed unnecessary to some of you, or just plain silly, but at least you now know why I created it. I’m not trying to create some viral rumor here, I feel like talking to people about this will help me feel better about the situation. I’m okay, and I would never do anything to hurt myself if the attraction was indeed being removed. I’m simply obsessed with the attraction, and it’s played an integral part of my life so far, so losing the attraction would hurt beyond belief. Feel free to call me dramatic, or over anxious, it’s okay, because I understand. I thought I just owe you all an explanation. I also want to make it clear that I am in no way attempting to hurt anyone’s reputation in any way by posting this. I simply don’t know what do do with this information, and it’s making me feel generally upset that Disney would even consider the removal of such an iconic attraction.

Finally, I don’t really feel like I have many other interests in life. Ever since a child I was just never able to get into sports or anything like that, it’s always been Disney and animatronic technology for me. Losing it’s a small world for me, means losing my entire interest in the Disney Parks, because at that point I’ll no longer even want to visit. I also feel horrible for Rolly Crump and Richard Sherman, since they worked on the attraction and are so talented. Destroying IASW will destroy their imprint on the parks, and it makes me feel gutted inside knowing this. I had the pleasure of meeting Richard a few years back, and I’ve written to Rolly before. I’ve even met Bob Gurr before, so I am quite fond of the Disney legends and I have an extreme amount of respect for every one of them. If this is the way the company decides to head from here on out, I just can’t see myself enjoying Disney, and to me that’s just insane. So at the end of the day, If anything ends up happening with the attraction, I will be okay. Life will go on just as it always does, but there will be a part of me that will be missing. I hope you all can understand where I’m coming from. Anyways, take care of yourselves everyone. Stay healthy, and I wish you all the best!

Here is the screenshot of Alex’s reply:

View attachment 510979

Yikes Disneyland.

Yeah... pretty sure Disneyland would bulldoze Small World real quick in favor of a Frozen attraction if it were up to them.

Still a terrible thing to think about considering the originality and creativity that went into developing IASW.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Still a terrible thing to think about considering the originality and creativity that went into developing IASW.

Exactly. It really does make me sick to my stomach to think about. it’s a small world to me is the most important attraction ever, one that is often overlooked as a “kiddie ride”, and I will tell you right now that it is ANYTHING but that. There has never been another theme park attraction ever built that has encouraged world peace and racial equality.

We unfortunately live in a world of famine, war and sickness. We as humans were put on this planet to treat each other with kindness and love, and that’s why I love the attraction so much. To me the attraction is the most important thing the imagineers have even conceived. There I said it. And yes, just like Richard Sherman loves to say, it is a prayer for peace, and I don’t care how cliche that may sound, because it’s true.

There is so much hate in our world. People killing each other, people killing themselves, it’s incredibly sad, but it’s our harsh reality we all must face. For Disney to overlook this beautiful message really does disgust the absolute hell out of me. The fact that they’d rather have a 4 minute frozen boat ride in its place says ALOT about where the company is headed. Also, it would be a HUGE insult to Rolly Crump, Richard Sherman and most importantly, Walt himself. No, Walt was not a saint, he wasn’t perfect, but he cared about people and societal problems. He was, for his time, progressive. Also, it’s incredibly hurtful to see those on social media constantly bashing the attraction as “annoying”, or just plain “stupid”. It’s anything but that. It’s innocent and loving, and our world needs innocence and love, especially nowadays. To me, the attraction should never, ever be removed. It’s message is too important. I don’t care, go ahead, give the attraction some new animatronics, or projection mapping effects if it eventually needs it. Do anything but remove the attraction and it’s message. It simply must stay, because we need love and compassion in this world, and even if it may seem cliche, the attraction is such an important reminder that we as humans need to treat each other with love and kindness everyday, and that hate has no place on this earth.

With all of this said, that does bring me to wonder whether TDA really did consider removing IASW back in 2018. For that reason, I’ll tag you Feather, and I’ll also tag you Martin @marni1971 @Magic Feather

If you two see this, I just want to let you know that I’m not trying to create some sort of viral rumor or unnecessary drama. I just want to clarify whether IASW at Disneyland was really looking at being removed by TDA back in 2018, and it worries me because they could still remove the attraction for something else if they feel it’s necessary 10 years or so down the line. I know you two mostly associate yourselves with the WDW side of things, but I thought I’d tag you two just to give it a shot and see if you two know anything about this. To see my original post, it’s on this thread a couple messages above. Anyways, if you two aren’t able to reply simply because you don’t know, then no worries at all. Take care.

 

[Raineman]

Sorry kid, but there is no such thing as sacred in business except profit. And Disney is nothing if not a business. If an attraction can't pull it's weight as far as attendance goes, then say bye bye. Stop worrying about it, since there's nothing you can do to change it. You don't have to like it, but you will have to accept it.

I don't have to accept it if I just stop going to WDW.

 

[rio]

Remember that if they removed some of the older attractions (such as Peter Pan), they might not be able to replace them with new ones. Building codes and accessibility guidelines have changed since these attractions were originally built, and almost all of these changes simply require more space. This is more of a problem for California but it has to impact Florida too.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

One more thing I’d like to mention, is the inevitable fate of the Matterhorn, which I’m sure many of you are aware of. The structure is very much unstable, and they can only do so much restoration work within the attraction’s structure until it is deemed completely unsafe, and the entire structure has to be razed. Of course, they could just raze it and rebuild it from the ground up, but in today’s day and age, with the current leadership within the company, I worry that they’ll just decide to replicate some E ticket like BatB in its place. Combine this with TDA’s past desire to remove IASW, and I really do worry about where Disneyland is headed. I do believe there will always be someone in the company against this, but it’s still worrisome to think about nonetheless.

 

[Trackmaster]

I don't see how Splash was any less untouchable than anything else. Anything is untouchable until an exec comes in and declares that its touchable again. I don't see why you'd be keeping that stupid Tiki Hut show around forever when you're shutting down Splash Mountain.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I don't see how Splash was any less untouchable than anything else.

I wouldn’t say Splash was necessarily “untouchable” or “sacred”, not at least to the level of Walt’s attractions. The true “sacred” attractions are the ones that Walt himself along with his talented team at WED worked on. The ones that stood out back then, and continue to stand out as Disney park staples that can remain but receive updates here and there from time to time. Now, yes, I would call Splash Mountain iconic, but was the attraction’s theme sacred? In my opinion, not so much. The SotS theme was a bit controversial to begin with, and so if you removed the SotS theme from the attraction, you would still have singing geese, alligators, birds etc... The most “sacred” thing about splash mountain is the structure and ride system itself. The majority of guests visiting from around the world or out of state won’t associate Splash Mountain with recycled America Sings AAs and SotS. They’ll think of the attraction’s thrill factor. The PatF
re-theme can implement itself into the attraction seamlessly if done well, and the attraction would still feel like Splash Mountain. Again, IF done well. In this case, TDA’s consideration to bulldoze IASW for something completely different is unlike anything the company has ever done parks wise. Now, it may never happen, but that fact that it was considered is worrisome. Splash Mountain isn’t being razed, it’s receiving an extensive, permanent overlay.

 

[Trackmaster]

I wouldn’t say Splash was necessarily “untouchable” or “sacred”, not at least to the level of Walt’s attractions. The true “sacred” attractions are the ones that Walt himself along with his talented team at WED worked on. The ones that stood out back then, and continue to stand out as Disney park staples that can remain but receive updates here and there from time to time. Now, yes, I would call Splash Mountain iconic, but was the attraction’s theme sacred? In my opinion, not so much. The SotS theme was a bit controversial to begin with, and so if you removed the SotS theme from the attraction, you would still have singing geese, alligators, birds etc... The most “sacred” thing about splash mountain is the structure and ride system itself. The majority of guests visiting from around the world or out of state won’t associate Splash Mountain with recycled America Sings AAs and SotS. They’ll think of the attraction’s thrill factor. The PatF
re-theme can implement itself into the attraction seamlessly if done well, and the attraction would still feel like Splash Mountain. Again, IF done well. In this case, TDA’s consideration to bulldoze IASW for something completely different is unlike anything the company has ever done parks wise. Now, it may never happen, but that fact that it was considered is worrisome. Splash Mountain isn’t being razed, it’s receiving an extensive, permanent overlay.

I was thinking that part of what made Splash a mainstay was the fact that it was a top tier attraction that hadn't been blemished by having an IP slapped on it. Don't get me wrong, its Disney World and they're all about cross branding, and why forfeit some of the strongest IPs in the world, but I think that there's a certain quality to keeping some classic attractions that aren't IPs where you just pledge to update theme, switch around the animatronics and theming, and keep it up to a high standard. Slapping an IP on one of the remaining that's survived without needing one is a big eyeroll for a lot of people. They could have added some Princess and the Frog Scenes without having to make the whole thing Princess and the Frog. Or God forbid just make a new ground up ride themed to it and not slashed Splash.

I'm not sure if they were trying to be SJW's about it, but I'm not sure if the timing was great. The country is very divided and touchy right now, and this just comes across as either virtue signaling or trying to stir the pot. Plans may have been in place for a while now, but they should have waited a bit, or as I was saying before just use them for a ground up new ride. You don't want to go down the road of the NFL, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, etc. and take too many stances when you're just there to entertain.

 

[DisneyTransport]

I was thinking that part of what made Splash a mainstay was the fact that it was a top tier attraction that hadn't been blemished by having an IP slapped on it. Don't get me wrong, its Disney World and they're all about cross branding, and why forfeit some of the strongest IPs in the world, but I think that there's a certain quality to keeping some classic attractions that aren't IPs where you just pledge to update theme, switch around the animatronics and theming, and keep it up to a high standard. Slapping an IP on one of the remaining that's survived without needing one is a big eyeroll for a lot of people. They could have added some Princess and the Frog Scenes without having to make the whole thing Princess and the Frog. Or God forbid just make a new ground up ride themed to it and not slashed Splash.

I'm not sure if they were trying to be SJW's about it, but I'm not sure if the timing was great. The country is very divided and touchy right now, and this just comes across as either virtue signaling or trying to stir the pot. Plans may have been in place for a while now, but they should have waited a bit, or as I was saying before just use them for a ground up new ride. You don't want to go down the road of the NFL, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, etc. and take too many stances when you're just there to entertain.

Is song of the south not disney IP? We’re starting to move this thread into rough waters as well!

 

[Capsin4]

JC could go. I get not everyone goes to AK, but JC isn’t needed. Put a boat ride with real animals in AK and use JC plot plus the expansion pad to make a great, modern Adventureland. IMO it’s only saving grace is it’s a ride that infants can go on.