Al Lutz says TDA doesn't want MSE back

[COProgressFan]

WDW is CONSTANTLY in a state of update, upgrade and repairs- just not all of this is in guest areas. DL and DCA are theme PARKS. WDW is a full resort, and as such, requires more infrastructure upgrade and update. I wouldn't be so quick to judge based on what we see "on stage", since only a select few know what's going on backstage.

See, but backstage/infrastrcture isn't my problem as a guest. If I have to shell out nearly $80 for a day ticket to MK or DL, I get better value at DL because the park is cleaner and better kept, there are more attractions, the attractions are regularly improved/plussed, there is more entertainment by a landslide, and the food is better.

The fact that WDW has more infrastructure to maintain is of little importance to guests when comparing the quality of the parks in California vs. Florida.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

You're so right. I've enjoy Al Lutz and his insight for more than a decade, but his attitude towards Orlando is something else.

I agree. He seems to have a bitter attitude towards Orlando.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

Slap me silly, but DL is in desperate need of updates, upgrades and repairs. The park has been neglected for about a decade and a half, and now it is getting what it needs. WDW is CONSTANTLY in a state of update, upgrade and repairs- just not all of this is in guest areas. DL and DCA are theme PARKS. WDW is a full resort, and as such, requires more infrastructure upgrade and update. I wouldn't be so quick to judge based on what we see "on stage", since only a select few know what's going on backstage.

Oh, and DEP (since it's NOT MSEP) is a nice addition. I would still like to see a convergance of EP and Spectro- you know, EP in stereo would be a nice start, and maybe some new music to accompany the world reknowned Baroque Hoedown.

Now, that's WDW.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Just last night my 11 year old told me that she doesn't want to go to WDW again next year because there is "nothing new to see". She wants to go to DL instead because she saw the Disney Channel thing about the World of Color.

THAT is really something that should make TDO take pause and scare them a bit.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

THAT is really something that should make TDO take pause and scare them a bit.

Exactly. WDW will slowly lose attendance and TDO should be scared by that.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

THAT is really something that should make TDO take pause and scare them a bit.

Exactly. WDW will slowly lose attendance and TDO should be scared by that, and I'm not saying that it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if 5-10 years from now, DLR has higher attendance than WDW.

EDIT: Sorry for double post..

 

[SeaCastle]

Al Lutz indeed has excellent information pertaining to Team Disney Anaheim, and yes Team Disney Orlando does mis-manage terribly, but Al can't say anything good about the place and will go out of his way to point out how the Disneyland Resort is superior. In some ways, yes, it is superior and better-managed. But one most keep in mind that Disneyland is essentially a regional resort, with 60% of its visitors coming from within 100 miles of the place. (I believe it was Jim Hill who pointed this out.)

Disneyland has a constant visitor base from which to draw from - Southern California. WDW has a fair share of visitors that are locals, but when most of its visitors are "once-in-a-lifetime" or once-a-year visitors, management must try harder (especially in a rough economy like this) to get visitors through the turnstiles and spending on parks and resorts. Unfortunately, they opt to throw discounts at us instead of building attractions to keep us coming, but it's just something to keep in context.

 

[jt04]

Lutz sour grapes.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if they want the MSEP back.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

Al Lutz indeed has excellent information pertaining to Team Disney Anaheim, and yes Team Disney Orlando does mis-manage terribly, but Al can't say anything good about the place and will go out of his way to point out how the Disneyland Resort is superior. In some ways, yes, it is superior and better-managed. But one most keep in mind that Disneyland is essentially a regional resort, with 60% of its visitors coming from within 100 miles of the place. (I believe it was Jim Hill who pointed this out.)

Disneyland has a constant visitor base from which to draw from - Southern California. WDW has a fair share of visitors that are locals, but when most of its visitors are "once-in-a-lifetime" or once-a-year visitors, management must try harder (especially in a rough economy like this) to get visitors through the turnstiles and spending on parks and resorts. Unfortunately, they opt to throw discounts at us instead of building attractions to keep us coming, but it's just something to keep in context.

Agreed. I've always seen Al Lutz as the voice of Disneyland Resort that's HIS park, but Jim Hill is the voice of WDW. This is HIS park. Which is why I usually pay more attention to Jim because I'd rather not have to read Al's posts which most of the it's him trying to prove that DL is far more superior. Example not factual that I know of: "Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland will be receiving an expansion... BUT! DL is still so much better because of this and this..."

EDIT: Jt, exactly, it doesn't matter. We have it.

 

[Disneyfanman]

Al is right for the most part and the article is dead on target. DCA doesn't need the parade any longer and it would just complicate things during the construction. Disneyland is getting a wonderful new parade next year that looks like it will be as good as anything they have ever done. The have Fantasmic, the nightly fireworks, and now World of Color and Glowfest at night. All in two parks. All of this is the outcome of YEARS of planning and spending and updating etc. Before 2004 the Disneyland resort was really hurting vs WDW. Now they have risen to the challenge of the APers and continued to raise the bar over the past 5 years.

Need examples? Look at the massive number of little upgrades to attractions that they "overdid" in execution. The reopening of the castle walk-thru is absolutely wonderful. Even just recently the upgrades to the effects in SW. Pixie Hollow here vs. WDW. Same idea but a completely different level of execution. Look at Peter Pans Flight?!!!!!! I cannot even ride it at WDW anymore because the difference in the experience is so poor compared to DL.

Now one could argue that they have to do this stuff due to the different audience. Sure that's true. But in WDW stuff gets upgraded usually if the get a new sponsor, or it generates direct income like shops and restaurants. Or, like in the case of Space Mountain it's falling apart. At DL stuff gets upgraded sometimes because of better show and the INDIRECT affect on income (Happy Guests spend more and come back more frequently). That's a pretty big difference in approach.

Now this is current state. I thought 7 or 8 years ago that DL was done. Maint. issues were actually so bad that it led to accidents.....something that I thought would NEVER happen at Disney. The 50th created an atmosphere of "let's be the best and it will make money" again and it remains today.

But I know that the winds could shift too. Can you imagine if Tony Baxter and John L. took a direct interest in WDW? DL could just as easy degrade and WDW could perk up.

But not today.

 

[misterID]

I think you guys might have taken the MSEP comment too literal, or maybe personal... I think he was saying, more or less, is that TDO was happy to keep the "old parade" so they wouldn't have to replace it, or basically spend any money on anything new. I truly felt that his "swipe" was more feeling bad for us. He used to say the same things towards TDA before they got their act together.

tbh, DL has a right to brag right now... We don't.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

Al is right for the most part and the article is dead on target. DCA doesn't need the parade any longer and it would just complicate things during the construction. Disneyland is getting a wonderful new parade next year that looks like it will be as good as anything they have ever done. The have Fantasmic, the nightly fireworks, and now World of Color and Glowfest at night. All in two parks. All of this is the outcome of YEARS of planning and spending and updating etc. Before 2004 the Disneyland resort was really hurting vs WDW. Now they have risen to the challenge of the APers and continued to raise the bar over the past 5 years.

Need examples? Look at the massive number of little upgrades to attractions that they "overdid" in execution. The reopening of the castle walk-thru is absolutely wonderful. Even just recently the upgrades to the effects in SW. Pixie Hollow here vs. WDW. Same idea but a completely different level of execution. Look at Peter Pans Flight?!!!!!! I cannot even ride it at WDW anymore because the difference in the experience is so poor compared to DL.

Now one could argue that they have to do this stuff due to the different audience. Sure that's true. But in WDW stuff gets upgraded usually if the get a new sponsor, or it generates direct income like shops and restaurants. Or, like in the case of Space Mountain it's falling apart. At DL stuff gets upgraded sometimes because of better show and the INDIRECT affect on income (Happy Guests spend more and come back more frequently). That's a pretty big difference in approach.

Now this is current state. I thought 7 or 8 years ago that DL was done. Maint. issues were actually so bad that it led to accidents.....something that I thought would NEVER happen at Disney. The 50th created an atmosphere of "let's be the best and it will make money" again and it remains today.

But I know that the winds could shift too. Can you imagine if Tony Baxter and John L. took a direct interest in WDW? DL could just as easy degrade and WDW could perk up.

But not today.

I'm hoping this will happen with WDW for the 40th.

Oh how I hope for the day. I think they should when they are done with DL.

 

[tirian]

Need examples? Look at the massive number of little upgrades to attractions that they "overdid" in execution. The reopening of the castle walk-thru is absolutely wonderful. Even just recently the upgrades to the effects in SW. Pixie Hollow here vs. WDW. Same idea but a completely different level of execution. Look at Peter Pans Flight?!!!!!! I cannot even ride it at WDW anymore because the difference in the experience is so poor compared to DL.

Now one could argue that they have to do this stuff due to the different audience. Sure that's true. But in WDW stuff gets upgraded usually if the get a new sponsor, or it generates direct income like shops and restaurants. Or, like in the case of Space Mountain it's falling apart. At DL stuff gets upgraded sometimes because of better show and the INDIRECT affect on income (Happy Guests spend more and come back more frequently). That's a pretty big difference in approach.

Now this is current state. I thought 7 or 8 years ago that DL was done. Maint. issues were actually so bad that it led to accidents.....something that I thought would NEVER happen at Disney. The 50th created an atmosphere of "let's be the best and it will make money" again and it remains today.

But I know that the winds could shift too. Can you imagine if Tony Baxter and John L. took a direct interest in WDW? DL could just as easy degrade and WDW could perk up.

All true.

But not today.

Sooner than you think.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

All true.


Sooner than you think.

:lookaroun

Hopefully it's for the 40th!

 

[SeaCastle]

Agreed. I've always seen Al Lutz as the voice of Disneyland Resort that's HIS park, but Jim Hill is the voice of WDW. This is HIS park. Which is why I usually pay more attention to Jim because I'd rather not have to read Al's posts which most of the it's him trying to prove that DL is far more superior. Example not factual that I know of: "Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland will be receiving an expansion... BUT! DL is still so much better because of this and this..."

EDIT: Jt, exactly, it doesn't matter. We have it.

To his credit, Al Lutz has done his fair share to save Disneyland from the atrocity that was Paul Pressler's rule.

I disagree that Jim Hill is WDW's insider, because to be honest we don't really have one. Yes, I believe he has sources on the inside, but posts a lot less on news and rumors than Al does, and often tends to report projects as more solid than they actually are. There is no Al Lutz equivalent for Walt Disney World.

I've found that most people who report on rumors always have some sort of bias or agenda. It's inescapable but is a fact of life.

I think you guys might have taken the MSEP comment too literal, or maybe personal... I think he was saying, more or less, is that TDO was happy to keep the "old parade" so they wouldn't have to replace it, or basically spend any money on anything new. I truly felt that his "swipe" was more feeling bad for us. He used to say the same things towards TDA before they got their act together.

tbh, DL has a right to brag right now... We don't.

MSEP was brought in (and further upgraded at Walt Disney World) so money (potentially a lot of it) could be spent on refurbishing SpectroMagic.

Al is right for the most part and the article is dead on target. DCA doesn't need the parade any longer and it would just complicate things during the construction. Disneyland is getting a wonderful new parade next year that looks like it will be as good as anything they have ever done. The have Fantasmic, the nightly fireworks, and now World of Color and Glowfest at night. All in two parks. All of this is the outcome of YEARS of planning and spending and updating etc. Before 2004 the Disneyland resort was really hurting vs WDW. Now they have risen to the challenge of the APers and continued to raise the bar over the past 5 years.

Need examples? Look at the massive number of little upgrades to attractions that they "overdid" in execution. The reopening of the castle walk-thru is absolutely wonderful. Even just recently the upgrades to the effects in SW. Pixie Hollow here vs. WDW. Same idea but a completely different level of execution. Look at Peter Pans Flight?!!!!!! I cannot even ride it at WDW anymore because the difference in the experience is so poor compared to DL.

Now one could argue that they have to do this stuff due to the different audience. Sure that's true. But in WDW stuff gets upgraded usually if the get a new sponsor, or it generates direct income like shops and restaurants. Or, like in the case of Space Mountain it's falling apart. At DL stuff gets upgraded sometimes because of better show and the INDIRECT affect on income (Happy Guests spend more and come back more frequently). That's a pretty big difference in approach.

Now this is current state. I thought 7 or 8 years ago that DL was done. Maint. issues were actually so bad that it led to accidents.....something that I thought would NEVER happen at Disney. The 50th created an atmosphere of "let's be the best and it will make money" again and it remains today.

But I know that the winds could shift too. Can you imagine if Tony Baxter and John L. took a direct interest in WDW? DL could just as easy degrade and WDW could perk up.

But not today.

I'm not a TDO apologist, but all of those upgrades may have to do with the fact that Glendale is only about an hour drive from Disneyland (if less). :shrug:

One thing fans must understand is that Walt Disney World never was, never will be, and never was meant to be Disneyland. They were built and operated by different corporate teams with different agendas for entirely different purposes. Are the people managing Walt Disney World arrogant and out of line? Perhaps, but things are getting better. Disneyland was in a horrid state for years before they finally woke up to the fact and fixed everything up.

Everyone has their own bias as to which parks are their favorite, but if you look at the wider scope of things, you'll realize that everything is different for a reason.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Al Lutz has chosen to specialize on Disneyland. Jim Hill covers the entire company and has contacts in parks and resorts, movies, merchandise, etc.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

To his credit, Al Lutz has done his fair share to save Disneyland from the atrocity that was Paul Pressler's rule.

I disagree that Jim Hill is WDW's insider, because to be honest we don't really have one. Yes, I believe he has sources on the inside, but posts a lot less on news and rumors than Al does, and often tends to report projects as more solid than they actually are. There is no Al Lutz equivalent for Walt Disney World.

I've found that most people who report on rumors always have some sort of bias or agenda. It's inescapable but is a fact of life.



MSEP was brought in (and further upgraded at Walt Disney World) so money (potentially a lot of it) could be spent on refurbishing SpectroMagic.



I'm not a TDO apologist, but all of those upgrades may have to do with the fact that Glendale is only about an hour drive from Disneyland (if less). :shrug:

One thing fans must understand is that Walt Disney World never was, never will be, and never was meant to be Disneyland. They were built and operated by different corporate teams with different agendas for entirely different purposes. Are the people managing Walt Disney World arrogant and out of line? Perhaps, but things are getting better. Disneyland was in a horrid state for years before they finally woke up to the fact and fixed everything up.

Everyone has their own bias as to which parks are their favorite, but if you look at the wider scope of things, you'll realize that everything is different for a reason.

Then I'm guessing Kevin Yee is the closest thing to an official insider we have for WDW?

Also, MSEP was upgraded at WDW? I thought it was the exact same thing from DCA. I'm not doubting you, simply curious.

 

[SeaCastle]

Then I'm guessing Kevin Yee is the closest thing to an official insider we have for WDW?

Also, MSEP was upgraded at WDW? I thought it was the exact same thing from DCA. I'm not doubting you, simply curious.

As an example, his information about Crush's Coaster coming to the Studios is very out of date, and while he does post very informative and insightful articles, I wouldn't call him the insider for Walt Disney World (nor do I know of anyone else that could be). Then again, this is just my opinion.

And yes, MSEP was tinkered with/upgraded before it started performing at the Magic Kingdom. Link

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

As an example, his information about Crush's Coaster coming to the Studios is very out of date, and while he does post very informative and insightful articles, I wouldn't call him the insider for Walt Disney World (nor do I know of anyone else that could be). Then again, this is just my opinion.

And yes, MSEP was tinkered with/upgraded before it started performing at the Magic Kingdom. Link

Ahh, yes, I remember that.

 

[wm49rs]

Then I'm guessing Kevin Yee is the closest thing to an official insider we have for WDW?

Also, MSEP was upgraded at WDW? I thought it was the exact same thing from DCA. I'm not doubting you, simply curious.

No, you will find much more factual information from the insiders on this site than you will in any of Kevin Yee's articles, some of which are nothing more than a recap of what was discussed in these forums.....