"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!

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Victor

Victor

Active Member
jedimaster1227 said:
Test Track, Mission:Space and Soarin' are considered "Big Thrills" and Honey, I Shrunk the Audience, Maelstrom and Body Wars are considered "Mild but Wild Thrills" on Disney's website.
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Body Wars is 'Mild but Wild'...and Soarin' is a 'Big Thrill'?! There's something wrong there, Body Wars is definitely not mild. I'm sure it's all about marketing though.
 
B

basas

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Why?

Why not, is the better question.

Disney has a huge library of characters that people enjoy. People come to Disney to see that. I don't see how the difference between a stuffy old man hosting a ride, or a character, really matter if the show is done properly.

People like characters, they think they are fun. That is why people go to Disney!

We can call them sheeple, or slow, or what have you, but characters have always been there. The 3 Callebros have been meeting and greeting at Mexico since the park opened. There seems to be this misconception that Epcot used to be devoid of characters - it's simply not true. Doesn't anyone else have pictures of themselves with Minnie in her space suit? The truth is, characters (the walk-around type) used to be much rarer in ALL the parks (even MK). The characters were there, even if they weren't hosting rides.

People keep holding onto this concept they believe Epcot was about, but forget that Epcot has always been, in it's final design, a theme park. We can talk about what Walt wanted to build, but we all know that battle was lost before ground was broke. ANd, to be honest, if they HAD built the city...uh, not so much fun. Practical, but not someplace one would take a vacation to visit.

I LOVE the older dark rides. Horizons, WoM, R.I.P. I love that type of experience, and I do miss it at Disney. But I think in the end, characters or no, it comes down to : is the attraction entertaining. Characters shouldn't be the "be all end all panacea", but they also aren't the bane of existence.

People seem to forget that WDW is not an altruistic experiment, but a vacation destination. You are never going to really "educate" people in a theme park ride; you can give them inspiration, but nothing more than a jumping off point. While a dose of education and to broaden your horizons is a good thing (to pardon the pun), the simple fact is at WDW people come get away from schools/jobs/etc. and while it's great to intertwine it, WDW was never meant to be an educational institution.

Just like people who want MGM to be a "real working studio!", sometimes you just have to let it go.

AEfx
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They are taking a 60+ year old movie few park visitors have ever seen, and throwing it on the attraction. To me, it seems more like they're TRYING to add characters (and coming up with excuses), rather than having a natural fit. The Three Caballeros were probably even more well known in 1982 then they are today, yet the original Epcot folks didn't think they were necessary to teach people about the culture of Mexico.
 
Hakunamatata

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
basas said:
They are taking a 60+ year old movie few park visitors have ever seen, and throwing it on the attraction. To me, it seems more like they're TRYING to add characters (and coming up with excuses), rather than having a natural fit. The Three Caballeros were probably even more well known in 1982 then they are today, yet the original Epcot folks didn't think they were necessary to teach people about the culture of Mexico.
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Maybe I am wrong, but doesnt Mexico still sponser this pavillion, and if so, dont htey have a say in what goes in their pavillion? I swear I have seen something posted somewhere on this board that Mexico asked Disney to utilize the three Cab's to help promote tourism in Mexico....
 
hypercatmatt04

hypercatmatt04

Member
I can't wait until April 1st, when people walk in and realize it is exactly the same and nothing was refurbed. Everyone will be greeted at the exit with a big "April Fools" sign.
 
Lee

Lee

Adventurer
hypercatmatt04 said:
I can't wait until April 1st, when people walk in and realize it is exactly the same and nothing was refurbed. Everyone will be greeted at the exit with a big "April Fools" sign.
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Cute...but no. It's gonna happen. The animation is currently in production.

Learned lots today...mainly that I must be "slow" since I like Epcot a little more every time it inches away from the original "Center". I'll just be over here fiddling while the old :)snore:) Epcot burns. :wave:
 
speck76

speck76

Well-Known Member
basas said:
They are taking a 60+ year old movie few park visitors have ever seen, and throwing it on the attraction. To me, it seems more like they're TRYING to add characters (and coming up with excuses), rather than having a natural fit. The Three Caballeros were probably even more well known in 1982 then they are today, yet the original Epcot folks didn't think they were necessary to teach people about the culture of Mexico.
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Have you ever wondered why Epcot 1982 was trying to teach us about the culture in Mexico, and why that might not be as important of a message today, and might not even be the correct delivery of the message, and perhaps not even to the correct audiance?
 
speck76

speck76

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Cute...but no. It's gonna happen. The animation is currently in production.

Learned lots today...mainly that I must be "slow" since I like Epcot a little more every time it inches away from the original "Center". I'll just be over here fiddling while the old :)snore:) Epcot burns. :wave:
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I can't wait until the traditionalists realize that the "slow" people only look slow because they are moving so fast....

:cool:
 
GenerationX

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
None of those are at the fault of the EPCOT Center, or the designers and Imagineers that created it. Those are the faults of the generally.....let's say......."under-intelligent" public that didn't see the near genius that had been plopped down before them.
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Your inference that only intelligent people can appreciate the "near genius" of a particular theme park attraction is not accurate. I'm smart enough to see what they're trying to do. It just doesn't hold my interest. Am I willing to invest time in an attraction? Yes, as long as there's a payoff. El Rio and SSE are prime examples of attractions that have limited return for my invested time.
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
speck76 said:
I can't wait until the traditionalists realize that the "slow" people only look slow because they are moving so fast....

:cool:
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so fast that when mistakes are finally uncovered you are so far down the path as to blame something for them that really has nothing to do with them.

But, I digress, because I don't think this argument is really valid. I don't think being "slow" has anything to do with your enjoyment of EPCOT Center. I know a LOT of highly intelligent people who adored and understood the original park. I know many highly intelligent people who did not. It is about entertainment. It worked very well for millions of people. It did not work for others. At this point, Disney feels that there are more of the latter and/or enough of a combination of the latter and former that don't care that much that change will bring in more people. Whether that is true or not has yet to be seen. Just like the effectiveness of the original EPCOT Center was yet to be seen. It is entertainment and audiences are fickle. Unless you are able to tap into concepts that transcend audiences and unanticipated trends, you will have to change constantly. However, Disney, perhaps moreso than any amusement park-like entertainment company knew how to do this. There are not too many attractions built in the 1970's that carry the longevity of Pirates, Mansion, or Space Mountain absent a few roller coasters. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It is preferences. It comes across to me like understanding Epcot takes more creativity and understanding and that those who don't like it were too bored or closed off to "get it." But, of course I think that, because I LIKED the park the way it was. It was the reason I fell in love with WDW. That doesn't mean those that disagreed were objectively wrong or less creative, though. It is just different.

However, having said all that, DO NOT sit and argue this "move on" BS. I am fully willing to understand that people like the application of characters and that certain people will like that. Therefore, I ask that those people are also willing to see that EPCOT Center was very successfully executed. But, it did not necessarily reach the size of an audience Disney wanted or appeal to the broad base. If you like the changes, I am happy for you. But, as I have said before, at least have the respect to see that these are very troubling to people because they do, in fact, symbolize the death of the exact things people loved about Disney World. Remember, "People" means everyone.
 
mousermerf

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Original Poster
Would it make everyone feel better if I had proof that the final scene is meant to be the 1980's "modern" Mexico city and thus should for all intents and purposes be demolished/removed/redone as much as possible?

The EPCOT Center book says so.
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
mousermerf said:
Would it make everyone feel better if I had proof that the final scene is meant to be the 1980's "modern" Mexico city and thus should for all intents and purposes be demolished/removed/redone as much as possible?

The EPCOT Center book says so.
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Definitely does, but I guess I don't see the relevance of that. I didn't think that anyone was advocating status quo on the attraction (and I apologize if someone is). I like the attraction a lot, but it really does need updating as did/do all of the WS travelogue-type attractions. The finale really does need to go/get a large overhaul. It is solely whether the direction should or should not include the characters.
 
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