Abandoned FW pavilion concepts?

steve2wdw

WDW Fan Since 1973
An earlier post said "the living sea's has to go". I disagree. The basic concepts are still good. It just needs to be freshened up a bit with some new exhibits. An awful lot goes on under the sea. Earthquakes, volcanos, and just think of the shipwrecks on the bottom (maybe some Titannic related exhibits). The possibilities are endless. All they need is a sponsor with some cash. I agree with some other posts that a weather themed pavilion on this side of Future World would do wonders. Place "The Weather", with the TDS attraction, Stormrider, between The Land and The Living Seas, allow access from both pavilions (all three affect each other) and from the outside, and you've got a mega-pavilion that would certainly draw lots of people to Future World West.
As far as abandoned Future World ideas go, going back to my 1975 Walt Disney Productions Annual Report, Future World Theme Center was going to be divided into three big areas. This is from the report; "Surrounding the Comminicore will be three major Theme Center Pavilions, where American corporations, industry associations or consortiums, foundations and government will be invited to sponsor major Disney-designed and operated showcase attractions. The Science and Technology Pavilion will present the future world of energy, transportation, agriculture and food production, oceanography and outer space. The Community Pavilion will present future concepts in education, health and medicine, and the various and vital components of a community--economics, planning and design, and government services for people. The Communication and the Arts Pavilion will simulate and demonstrate the future world of information and communications, and the role of all the arts--performing, visual, design--in our global environment."
As you can see, most of these ideas have been used in the current Future World, just not in their original format. In fact, Epcot, as we know it now, was actually going to be two different parks. Epcot Future World Theme Center, and the World Showcase park which was to be located near the Transpotation and Ticket Center, near or in the middle of the Magic Kingdom parking lot.
The Walt Disney World Showcase was to be housed in a giant circular building, cut in half. It looked like a giant shopping mall, with a huge courtyard in the middle. Each country was like a store front (with equal exposure). From the stock report " No matter how large the interior area of a nation's pavilion, the outside exposure will be equal for all." The depth of each country was decided on the amount of sponsorship money and what was to be housed in the particular country. Everything was indoors, like the current Mexico pavilion. Amazingly, the concept art for Mexico looks almost exactly like what actually materialized.
By the time the 1976 sock report came out, the company was deciding to combine the two concepts into one park and by the 1977 report, the artwork of pavilion concepts was starting to look like what is now built in Florida. Back in the 70's and early 80's, the company actually gave out a lot more info on their future theme park projects than they do now. I remember looking forward to January each year, waiting for my Annual Report to arrive, with all the artwork and concept idea's being tossed around by the imaginneers. There was a lot that never materialized, but a lot more that did. I love browsing through that old material.
 

josh_e_washie

New Member
Hey everyone,
I know that this post is somewhat old as WDWMagic posts go, but I just found it! Anyways, I have a couple of inputs and questions. First of all, I love the concept of EPCOT. The idea of bringing together different elements and parts of our lives and portraying them for us to not only be entertained, but educated, is brilliant. I haven't been to Disney in a while, but I love the entire electrifying atmosphere of EPCOT. The Imagineers really hit something when creating this original park.
With that said, I think that they (The Imagineers or whoever)should keep with this theme of bringing together all of the elements and parts of our lives and communities. The weather concept, posted numerous times before here, is an awesome idea. I don't think that The Living Seas should be taken out though, not only for the incredible sentimental value, but instead the educational value. A lot is learned in the opening movie. I do however believe that it does need to be refurbished...it has so much potential!
The Mission: Space concept sounds awesome, and I'm sure it will be a great replacement for Horizons because, let's face it, people nowadays want more thrilling rides. As much as we want to deny it, no one liked Horizons for it's thrill element or because it was 'fun' to ride...it was just a great, old fashioned Disney ride, like the Carousell of Progress and It's A Small World. The sentimental value was there, not the real elements of a ride. I do think, however, that Disney is learning about that with the creation of Test Track and now, Mission:Space.
Another pavillion that I think might need some attention is The Land. This has been, and probably still is one of my favorite pavillions. I find what is contained in Living with The Land and Food Rocks very interesting, but at the same time, I think something new needs to be done. I was at The Land to witness the refurbishment with color and decor, and I think it was a wise decision! The drab colors of the early 80's were nicely replaced with the airy pastels of today. But some of the attractions still lack...and unfortunately I think that this will be a very VERY hard theme to make into some type of major ticket attraction. Nevertheless, it is still a great peice of work, artistically and technically.
Let's remeber the name of the two 'worlds' in EPCOT. Future World and World Showcase. Future World should showcase the future! Mission:Space, Test Track, Wonders of Life, The Land and the Universe of Energy have all got this down pat. Each does a great job showcasing all of the aspects of the effects of the future on what they present. Now if one notices(and in this thread, they have!) all of these pavillions are on one side of Future World, with the exception of The Land. This would mean that something needs to be refurbished on the other side of Future World, and that has already began with Imagination! But, like The Land, I don't think that this pavillion can expand too much into the 'future' part of Future World. Imagination is more of a here and now thing...still a wonderful and beautiful pavillion, though...amd I love Figment!
So I come back to my first argument...fix The Living Seas!! Everyone can see the potential there!
On another issue... get rid of that stupid sign over Spaceship Earth! It completely ruins the entire atmosphere of Future World, and makes it so kiddish! I think that Spaceship Earth was meant to be something of a work of art, and that it was. It abstactly represented earth, and I thought it was beautiful. But now I have somewhat 'lost respect' for it, it looks so immature!
By the way, can anyone tell me where to get one of those imagineering books? I find that stuff very interesting... Thanks for listening to my babble!
:wave:
 

FanofDinsey1981

Active Member
I though that at some time, disney wanted to build switzerland or portugal or something into the other countries, posibly where the millinum village is?

:confused:
 

kaos

Active Member
Switzerland was to be built where the Germany train display is, and was supposed to have a Matterhorn attraction. It's ironinc, at one point, Israel was supposed to go in between Germany and Italy, but that was called off due to terrorism fears. Africa as a continent was supposed to join the World Showcase, but instead, the refreshment outpost took its place.
 

FanofDinsey1981

Active Member
Originally posted by kaos
Switzerland was to be built where the Germany train display is, and was supposed to have a Matterhorn attraction. It's ironinc, at one point, Israel was supposed to go in between Germany and Italy, but that was called off due to terrorism fears. Africa as a continent was supposed to join the World Showcase, but instead, the refreshment outpost took its place.

hm thought so!
 

WDWspider

New Member
Originally posted by mickeykid79
Why not an attraction that deals with the element of FIRE.You realize EPCOT touches on all the elements of Earth.
Earth=The land
Wind=Rumored Weather ride
Sea=The Living Seas
Sky=SPACE
Heart=WondersofLife
Imagination=Imagination!

So you see Fire is a missing element.Maybe something like the Backdraft ride @ Universal or Journey into a Volcano:sohappy:

You forgot the Universe of Energy, and Energy or Friction is the basis of Fire, this pavilion also focuses on fuels which help fire to burn, so it has been covered more or less.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by raven
I would LOVE to sere the old Millenium building turned into another country pavillion.

Well the space where they put the millenium building was a vacant space left for a future Pavilion someday and still could be.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
SO many good points have been made here! i agree with those who said living seas should stay, but it needs a refurb! and i think the Titanic exibit is a good idea! when i went to the aquarium in Gatlinberg, TN last month, they had a Titanic exhibit, and it was pretty cool. mainly had facts and such and a timeline of the Titanic. had two scenes set up of what the inside of the boat looked like while filling up with water...one was a stairway leading up to a hallway with water spilling from the hallway down the stairs...was a really creepy feeling, and it immediately reminded me of the 1997 movie, with all the white walls, ceiling, and floors. very authentic stuff! then they had an tank with different objects found on the ocean floor from the Titanic. you could press different buttons, and it would light up different objects while telling you what it was, and what it was used for, etc. and, of course, they had tanks with different Titanic type scenes, with the type of fish found in that part of the Atlanic swimming around. but by far the coolest thing was a little black box in a corner. you reached your hand into it, and it had water which stayed at the same temperature as the water was on that fateful night. 28 degrees, i believe it was. just imagining being completely submerged in water that cold was such a reality check! i think an exhibit like this would be really great in Living Seas! and i think they could also use a children's play area...a small one, of course. just something to give kids a little something extra to do. and not something based on one of their movies, nessasarily...a nautical themed one would be great...maybe a playarea inside a mini sunken ship or something. another thing that the Gatlinberg Aquarium had was where you could pick up horseshoe crabs, which was neat (but i was too afraid to touch one) and also where you could pet sting rays. and as i've mentioned before, a walk through underwater tunnel, which i still say would be so cool instead of the seacab ride. but i agree, they need more scenery in the main tanks...not so much as to block people's view or anything...just to make things a little more interesting.

as for SSE...i agree that the Epcot should be taken down...i loved the 2000, but the Epcot is just taking things too far. SSE should be how it was before the hand.

i too really wish they'd put a new pavilion where the village was/is. but i thought they were using it for some type of convention thing (as if they really need one!)

and i'm all for the new wind/weather based ride! they really do need some type of new thrill attraction on the other side of FW...BUT as long as they do NOT mess with or tear down the buildings already there.

btw, using the former Odyssey building for an attraction (or new restaurant *FW is now running really low on these...they have, what? 2?*...anything!) is a great idea!! what are they using it for now? convention center? :rolleyes: just curious..why didn't they use that instead of Garden Grill for the AP lounge?
 

djmatthews

Well-Known Member
Lets face it guys, the "real" E.P.C.O.T. was never built. The E.P.C.O.T. the Walt had planned (the original idea for WDW) was totally different to how E.P.C.O.T. is now.
 

kaos

Active Member
Originally posted by Dizknee_Phreek
btw, using the former Odyssey building for an attraction (or new restaurant *FW is now running really low on these...they have, what? 2?*...anything!) is a great idea!! what are they using it for now? convention center? :rolleyes: just curious..why didn't they use that instead of Garden Grill for the AP lounge?


Odyssey is being used as a Special Events center.. i.e. VIP events and so forth
 

bearboysnc

Well-Known Member
Lets face it guys, the "real" E.P.C.O.T. was never built. The E.P.C.O.T. the Walt had planned (the original idea for WDW) was totally different to how E.P.C.O.T. is now.
Lets face it guys, Disney was a dreamer not a business man. EPCOT was a bankrupt idea from it's inception. In order for these attractions to work they need to make money. If you look closely at it... EPCOT was just a giant MALL where people lived.

Disney was not the first person to melt LIVE, WORK, ENTERTAINMENT facilities. He just got people excited about civic planning. After WWII the Nation was all about looking towards the future, living better, and co-habiting with our World neighbors.

If you look at almost any city built after 1970, many work/play ideas Walt had on the drawing board are incorporated into their design. In a way, Epcot has been built all across the nation.

Remember Disneyland was originally designed as a small park near the Studio in Burbank, CA. It's a good thing the idea was fleshed out to the themepark that started it all.
 

NiCKEY NoUSE

Member
Original Poster
The Odyssey Building is only used as a restaurant for special occasions (like the food & Wine Festival); I think that the bathroom area there is still open but not sure about that one....the former Millenium Village is now used for corporate events/conventions.

Regarding the sad state of Future World West, I completely agree that something needs to be done soon to freshen up and bring life to that side of the park. In due time, all of the pavilions will be updated. The question is therefore not if, but when. New corporate sponsors are needed for Wonders of Life and Living Seas as of now, and I don't see anything major happening to those pavilions until that's taken care of. Who knows? Maybe Disney will instead focus on the "neglected" World SHowcase which hasn't seen a major new attraction in....a long time.

I predict that over the next decade each of the remaining untouched pavilons will be updated slowly but surely. Well I can dream, can't I? :animwink:
 

leeocean

New Member
I agree - the Living Seas should stay but get some attention. The Epcot sign on SE has got to go - I liked the 2000 though. Another country would be really cool but I wouldn't want it to be Middle Eastern - that's asking for an attack.
 

NiCKEY NoUSE

Member
Original Poster
The Odyssey Building is only used as a restaurant for special occasions (like the food & Wine Festival); I think that the bathroom area there is still open but not sure about that one....the former Millenium Village is now used for corporate events/conventions.

Regarding the sad state of Future World West, I completely agree that something needs to be done soon to freshen up and bring life to that side of the park. In due time, all of the pavilions will be updated. The question is therefore not if, but when. New corporate sponsors are needed for Wonders of Life and Living Seas as of now, and I don't see anything major happening to those pavilions until that's taken care of. Who knows? Maybe Disney will instead focus on the "neglected" World SHowcase which hasn't seen a major new attraction in....a long time.

I predict that over the next decade each of the remaining untouched pavilons will be updated slowly but surely. Well I can dream, can't I? :animwink:
 

CmdrTostada

Member
EPCOT would have worked when Walt came up with the idea, because people then wanted to live in an urban type place. People now want to live in small town type places, Celebration. Celebration has been a sucess so what makes you think EPCOT wouldnt have been.
 

RobFL

Account Suspended
Where to find space...

Between the Land the Seas is definately a prime spot. The "Wonders" plot is also in consideration since the venue is rumored to be on its way out.

The Odessey still houses first aid, restrooms, and lost children. Not to mention, an entire Cast Member area in the rear which is probably twice the size of the guest area.

Switzerland was supposed to be build with the Matterhorn, and to balance out the look of the showcase, Japan was supposed to get Mt. Fiji with an elaborate river rapids ride. I remember seeing the concept art on display when I was younger.

I remember there being some ideal number allowed for the world showcase, one which is conserably higher than the current number of pavillions.

On the note of "never came to light" projects... The Outpost was meant to have been a billion different things and could easily be scrapped for a new country or attraction.


Just think of all the areas that come and go every year for the Flower and Garden festival. They are never apparent during the rest of the year, but when a designer does some mnor changes the space seems to open up to a million possibilities.

-Rob
 

NiCKEY NoUSE

Member
Original Poster
The Odyssey Building is only used as a restaurant for special occasions (like the food & Wine Festival); I think that the bathroom area there is still open but not sure about that one....the former Millenium Village is now used for corporate events/conventions.

Regarding the sad state of Future World West, I completely agree that something needs to be done soon to freshen up and bring life to that side of the park. In due time, all of the pavilions will be updated. The question is therefore not if, but when. New corporate sponsors are needed for Wonders of Life and Living Seas as of now, and I don't see anything major happening to those pavilions until that's taken care of. Who knows? Maybe Disney will instead focus on the "neglected" World SHowcase which hasn't seen a major new attraction in....a long time.

I predict that over the next decade each of the remaining untouched pavilons will be updated slowly but surely. Well I can dream, can't I? :animwink:
 

TinkerBell9988

Well-Known Member
That friggin' hand on top of SSE needs to go!!!!!!! :fork:

Yes, I agree with everything you guys are saying... If only Disney would do something about it.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by steve2wdw

In fact, Epcot, as we know it now, was actually going to be two different parks. Epcot Future World Theme Center, and the World Showcase park which was to be located near the Transpotation and Ticket Center, near or in the middle of the Magic Kingdom parking lot.
The Walt Disney World Showcase was to be housed in a giant circular building, cut in half. It looked like a giant shopping mall, with a huge courtyard in the middle. Each country was like a store front (with equal exposure). From the stock report " No matter how large the interior area of a nation's pavilion, the outside exposure will be equal for all." The depth of each country was decided on the amount of sponsorship money and what was to be housed in the particular country. Everything was indoors, like the current Mexico pavilion. Amazingly, the concept art for Mexico looks almost exactly like what actually materialized.

Is this what your refering to??
 

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jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by steve2wdw
Back in the 70's and early 80's, the company actually gave out a lot more info on their future theme park projects than they do now. I remember looking forward to January each year, waiting for my Annual Report to arrive, with all the artwork and concept idea's being tossed around by the imaginneers. There was a lot that never materialized, but a lot more that did. I love browsing through that old material.

Me too...... I am disapointed that stockholders don't get the inside buz like we used to. I a disapointed that we cant preview new parks before they opened like I did in the summer of'70 with WDW.

Looks like stockholders don't get the respect they once did!!
 

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