A Theory as to What Disney is "Missing" These Days

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
What's missing rather is altruism i.e. executives thinking about the Company's well being rather than their compensation plan, Every decision made is made with a short term focus on increasing the stock price which DIRECTLY benefits the executives as much of their compensation comes from stock and stock based incentives, There is no long term planning as the time horizon for decisions is how will this decision affect the current and perhaps next quarter, No thought is given to how these decisions will affect the company 5 years from now.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I think it's more than just a loss of vision and creative imagination. It seems that the general apathy and sense that things are "good enough" that our present society has adopted has permeated the very spirit of the parks themselves. I have been going to MK for a long time (longer than I would care to admit) and have noticed a general decline in the feeling of "magic" in the parks over the last 6 years or so. Now before anyone jumps all over me for offering a critique of WDW, let me explain that I am a true WDW devotee. I make, at a minimum, an annual trip each October with my family and have done so since 1976. Many years we make multiple trips, but our October trip is always the special one. I am fortunate to be able travel often, and to many different areas of the world, but WDW is still my favorite place on earth. It is because WDW means so much to my family and I that I feel a grudging obligation to point out what I feel is the most bothersome issue I have noticed recently.

What I have noticed over the past several years is that the parks are in a less than stellar state of repair. What I am pointing out is areas that need to be re-painted, painted areas where the paint does not match the surrounding areas, and a general dinginess in certain areas where formerly ALL areas of WDW were bright and clean. One of the most amazing things I can recall about every trip was a feeling that I was walking into the park on opening day. There was never a rusty railing, all of the sidewalks looked like they had been freshly painted; and even in the days when people still smoked, there was nary a cigarette butt that remained on the ground for more than a few seconds before a cast member swept it up with a genuine smile on their face. It was like that new toy on Christmas morning that you got to open again and again. Evey trip, every year MK looked just as amazing as it had on my first trip there. It was one of the most memorable experiences of going to "Disney" as my friends and I used to call it. I WAS magic, and I would hate to think that the magical feeling could someday be lost. Lost to a general belief that even if it's not as great as it used to be, it's still head and shoulders above any of the other parks. Of course it is, but that's not the point. WDW is not like any of the other parks, I don't believe it was ever intended to be.
I'm not going to defend Disney necessarily, but, I will have to say that I don't think that anyone can go to the same place as often as you imply that you do and still find the same degree of "magic" that you did when you first went there. It doesn't seem possible. The sameness alone will diminish the magic. Having gone many years myself, I noticed that myself, yet, when I look back at pictures and pick my memories, on the surface, the place looks so much better then it did back then, yet, it doesn't contain the same amount of magic. Is it because it is no longer there, or because we can no longer see it because we can no longer feel the same way emotionally. Kind of like marriage. The spark may be there after 30 years, but, it isn't the same spark for the same reasons. Still love, but a more comfortable, less heart throbbing love. Love and Magic in my mind are the same things.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to defend Disney necessarily, but, I will have to say that I don't think that anyone can go to the same place as often as you imply that you do and still find the same degree of "magic" that you did when you first went there. It doesn't seem possible. The sameness alone will diminish the magic. Having gone many years myself, I noticed that myself, yet, when I look back at pictures and pick my memories, on the surface, the place looks so much better then it did back then, yet, it doesn't contain the same amount of magic. Is it because it is no longer there, or because we can no longer see it because we can no longer feel the same way emotionally. Kind of like marriage. The spark may be there after 30 years, but, it isn't the same spark for the same reasons. Still love, but a more comfortable, less heart throbbing love. Love and Magic in my mind are the same things.

Or like how the first time you watch Ghostbusters, you think "Oh, wow, this movie is cool." When you watch it later, you still enjoy it, but then you think, "Wait, why did Venkman bring all that sedative and a syringe on a date?!?"
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
Personally, I fear that the whole idea of theme parks has reached something of a hurdle. Brainstorming is fun, and I have done it for Disney several times on these boards. Can anyone truly brainstorm a great new bunch of ideas for the theme park setting? For full new parks? For new attractions? For new parades/shows? And will that idea have a long life or only a short-term life? Will they "wow" the public long enough to pay for themselves?

Epcot was not an utterly unique idea. It followed the tried and true World's Fair concept of Tech and global enlightenment--a combination of futurism and world travel in one place. World's Fairs had been out of style for some time back in the early 80's, but Epcot was optimistically done anyway. It went against some trends, but it also was a natural expansion of the tried and true Magic Kingdom which was awash in visitors. It made good and obvious sense at most levels, and that was key to its development.

Studios followed because Universal was breathing down Disney's neck, and it was a successful theme park theme elsewhere. In many ways, it was also a no-brainer, but definitely had some overlap with the theming of MK already.

Animal Kingdom was also a no-brainer idea for an expansion because enhancing the zoo experience ala Busch Gardens and Sea World made sense. By far, Animal Kingdom is the best zoolike animal themed park out there, but it is not utterly unique.

What's next? Sports World? Maybe, but the no-brainer ideas for theme parks aren't as obvious as they once were.

I also think that investing in attractions presents a much shorter window for the return on investment these days. How much longer will Frozen be big? Yet the Frozen attraction is barely open. Will they recoup their costs? Luckily, the attraction wasn't a total new build, it was built on the skeleton of Maelstrom. When everything else at WDW was built, a long timeline for recoupment of costs was anticipated. Now, times change so fast that new isn't perceived as "new" for very long, thus scaring bigwigs into thinking that their multi-multi-million dollar investment won't pay off.

As for maintenance, I also agree that the bean counters are taking over a bit too much, and Expedition Everest is a prime example. Yeah, the Yeti has been on the blink, but the disappeared bird at the top, steam effects, and much else have been broken for a long time, and probably comparatively easy to fix. Too few bodies with wrenches and stepladders to keep up, and too few bodies with paintbrushes and brooms to keep it as sparkling.

Why? One must consider the general idea that CMs in the parks can't be outsourced. Today's economy tends toward outsourcing because it lowers costs. Three notable areas cannot do that, government services, health care and entertainment. You can't let people at a call center in New Delhi pick up the garbage, man the gates, or do the 100's of other jobs that are actually at the parks. People here and now do those jobs, and they require wages and a host of other benefits and costs to stay there. By comparison, the number of people needed onsite to keep WDW going is far higher per dollar of return than, for example, an insurance company or manufacturing plant where much of the old American work is now computerized and/or outsourced. Efficiencies in other areas of the economy cannot be significantly realized at WDW. Real people have to do them, and outsourcing and/or tech efficiencies at a theme park happen far more slowly than in other areas where most of us work. Yet what has been getting cut? Employees in government, Obamacare cuts in healthcare, and piddly wages for workers in entertainment.

Thus, expenses rise because onsite people are needed, and the only thing that can make a realistic cost savings is cutting the maintenance and development budget. Sad, but that may be the real underlying reason for maintenance cutbacks.

Yeah, pessimism that Walt might have shrugged off, but the above issues are indeed real, and perhaps contribute to the overall state of perceived decline, and thus the feeling of pessimism. One thing's certain, love him or hate him--Eisner was not a pessimist, and he wasn't overly cautious. He dramatically expanded the parks and enhanced the park experience. Now the expansion is where the new markets are--cruiselines and overseas parks. The markets are there for the taking PLUS both of these have cheaper workforces. Coincidence? I think not.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Personally, I fear that the whole idea of theme parks has reached something of a hurdle. Brainstorming is fun, and I have done it for Disney several times on these boards. Can anyone truly brainstorm a great new bunch of ideas for the theme park setting? For full new parks? For new attractions? For new parades/shows? And will that idea have a long life or only a short-term life? Will they "wow" the public long enough to pay for themselves?

Epcot was not an utterly unique idea. It followed the tried and true World's Fair concept of Tech and global enlightenment--a combination of futurism and world travel in one place. World's Fairs had been out of style for some time back in the early 80's, but Epcot was optimistically done anyway. It went against some trends, but it also was a natural expansion of the tried and true Magic Kingdom which was awash in visitors. It made good and obvious sense at most levels, and that was key to its development.

Studios followed because Universal was breathing down Disney's neck, and it was a successful theme park theme elsewhere. In many ways, it was also a no-brainer, but definitely had some overlap with the theming of MK already.

Animal Kingdom was also a no-brainer idea for an expansion because enhancing the zoo experience ala Busch Gardens and Sea World made sense. By far, Animal Kingdom is the best zoolike animal themed park out there, but it is not utterly unique.

What's next? Sports World? Maybe, but the no-brainer ideas for theme parks aren't as obvious as they once were.

I also think that investing in attractions presents a much shorter window for the return on investment these days. How much longer will Frozen be big? Yet the Frozen attraction is barely open. Will they recoup their costs? Luckily, the attraction wasn't a total new build, it was built on the skeleton of Maelstrom. When everything else at WDW was built, a long timeline for recoupment of costs was anticipated. Now, times change so fast that new isn't perceived as "new" for very long, thus scaring bigwigs into thinking that their multi-multi-million dollar investment won't pay off.

As for maintenance, I also agree that the bean counters are taking over a bit too much, and Expedition Everest is a prime example. Yeah, the Yeti has been on the blink, but the disappeared bird at the top, steam effects, and much else have been broken for a long time, and probably comparatively easy to fix. Too few bodies with wrenches and stepladders to keep up, and too few bodies with paintbrushes and brooms to keep it as sparkling.

Why? One must consider the general idea that CMs in the parks can't be outsourced. Today's economy tends toward outsourcing because it lowers costs. Three notable areas cannot do that, government services, health care and entertainment. You can't let people at a call center in New Delhi pick up the garbage, man the gates, or do the 100's of other jobs that are actually at the parks. People here and now do those jobs, and they require wages and a host of other benefits and costs to stay there. By comparison, the number of people needed onsite to keep WDW going is far higher per dollar of return than, for example, an insurance company or manufacturing plant where much of the old American work is now computerized and/or outsourced. Efficiencies in other areas of the economy cannot be significantly realized at WDW. Real people have to do them, and outsourcing and/or tech efficiencies at a theme park happen far more slowly than in other areas where most of us work. Yet what has been getting cut? Employees in government, Obamacare cuts in healthcare, and piddly wages for workers in entertainment.

Thus, expenses rise because onsite people are needed, and the only thing that can make a realistic cost savings is cutting the maintenance and development budget. Sad, but that may be the real underlying reason for maintenance cutbacks.

Yeah, pessimism that Walt might have shrugged off, but the above issues are indeed real, and perhaps contribute to the overall state of perceived decline, and thus the feeling of pessimism. One thing's certain, love him or hate him--Eisner was not a pessimist, and he wasn't overly cautious. He dramatically expanded the parks and enhanced the park experience. Now the expansion is where the new markets are--cruiselines and overseas parks. The markets are there for the taking PLUS both of these have cheaper workforces. Coincidence? I think not.
Bravo... I could not agree with you more. It is like beating ones head against a wall to get people to realize that the return on investment is much harder to pinpoint then say a cruise line. With that it is an over all expense and whatever is on a cruise ship is what is needed to stay competitive and it doesn't change overnight. They have specific income for a specific cruise along with specific costs for that same cruise. Overseas, investments usually involve other sources of money besides just Disney. Everyone compares Japan to stateside stuff, when the financial aspect is not even a thought for Disney. For Disney it is flat out billing minus cost = profit. They can take chances because they will not take the brunt of an error in judgement. If the costs was higher then the return, it is not Disney's problem, it is the problem of the business that made the decision to go with the idea and whatever massive cost that was involved.

Great post! (expect tons of disagreement though) ;):joyfull:
 

180º

Well-Known Member
In response to the original post, I think philosophically it all comes down to modernism giving way to postmodernism.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I might be wrong, but, it sounds to me, in simple terms like... "The times they are a changing."

Not to diminish your valuable insight, but I would like to read the poster's thoughts about which tenets of the two philosophies he mentioned are believed to be at play and how those views impact(ed) decisions at the company. I think that a philosophical take on the issue is an interesting one and would like to hear what he has to say.
 

wwzesq

New Member
Hello Goofyernmost. I understand what you're saying, but for me it has always been the sameness that made MK special. Though I certainly love progress, innovations in technology, etc., there is still a part of me that has a deep appreciation for consistency in a world that is constantly changing; maybe it's just some inane desire to "go back home" when intellectually everyone knows you never can.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Hello Goofyernmost. I understand what you're saying, but for me it has always been the sameness that made MK special. Though I certainly love progress, innovations in technology, etc., there is still a part of me that has a deep appreciation for consistency in a world that is constantly changing; maybe it's just some inane desire to "go back home" when intellectually everyone knows you never can.
I don't think that is a bad thing. Memories are good especially if those things made you feel good. But, any place has to create new memories and happiness and that newer generations have different definitions of what will make them happy or impressed or warm and fuzzy. Walt himself was a strong advocate of change and keeping up with the times. Many things have been left to feed the desires of those of us that may have experienced the place a while back. But, we are not going to live forever and in order for the place to continue to give those feelings to current generations, they have to reach out to them.
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
You've intrigued me. Would you care to elaborate and lay out your position?

I don't mean to speak for @180º , but I actually wrote a short paper on that during my time in graduate school while taking a class that was more in American Studies than in history, though I focused more on the changing architecture, the perceived need for "stories" in every attraction, and the addition of gift shops at the end of nearly all of them. Part of modernism involved a sort of sense of trust toward larger institutions that gave way to a more (often warranted!) postmodern cynicism, which I think one could make an interesting case about concerning management and creative at companies like Disney. Heck, think of the old Tiki Room overlay with Iago and Zazu; the entire new "story" of the attraction centered on Iago going for a blatant cash grab, and although he winds up punished for it by the Tiki gods he still finishes the show with a line about heading over to the Hall of Presidents because he needs a nap.

Anyway, I'll parrot what some are saying concerning the prominence of shareholders; it's a sad fact of modern business that most companies do no look further into the future than the next two quarterly earnings periods, so it's more convenient to simply focus on what's hot at a given moment to make those shareholders happy than it is to risk ideas that may pay off in the long term even if they're tough to explain in the short run.

To tie this back into the question of the OP - my personal feeling (doesn't have to apply to everyone, obviously) is that the parks of WDW used to do a magnificent job of creating life-long fans not necessarily based on Mickey and friends, nor based on Disney movies, but based on the experiences within the parks themselves. This meant rides and shows, yes, but also larger theming, smaller details that brought the whole thing together, helpful CMs (who hopefully were getting better compensation), good upkeep, etc. There was a feeling, I think, that one could not be a huge fan of Disney shows or movies yet still get a tremendous kick out of and become a lifelong fan of the theme parks because of such experiences.

In today's rush to appease those looking for short term business gains, I fear that the parks will have a harder time creating those lifelong fans, especially as the company becomes more dependent on preexisting IPs to create buzz and hype. It's already a very reactionary position to take ("Universal made it work, so WE have to make it work now!"), but it's moving away from the park experience creating new fans and instead latching onto pre-existing fandoms (e.g. a Star Wars fan now wanting to visit Star Wars Land first and foremost, and not as much wanting to visit DL or Studios first and foremost). To me, that's a dangerous position to take; many franchises come and go in terms of popularity, and people are more likely to eventually walk away from the parks if what's drawing them are the IPs instead of the greater park experience.

Again, just my personal perception, and it could be completely off-base to others.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There was a feeling, I think, that one could not be a huge fan of Disney shows or movies yet still get a tremendous kick out of and become a lifelong fan of the theme parks because of such experiences.

I would say that I had this feeling when I was younger, though I didn't know anyone else who really felt the same. It's interesting to find out that I wasn't the only one.

but it's moving away from the park experience creating new fans and instead latching onto pre-existing fandoms (e.g. a Star Wars fan now wanting to visit Star Wars Land first and foremost, and not as much wanting to visit DL or Studios first and foremost).

This is an interesting point. I can't say that I'm convinced of the concept (at least on the macro level) but it has actually given me something new to think about and a new angle to view things from.

I appreciate that.. I needed to waste more processing time on WDW ;)
 
entrepreneurial spirit, vision beyond the short term balance sheet, a thirst for original and inventive approach to park experiences.
But most of all an understanding of their own brand and its heritage.

The common occurrence is that the companies lost their founder. Their security blanket. If an idea isn't going well he can calm the waters and give everyone a chance to do their job. But when the founder is gone there is no patience or optimism and the board focuses on profits and let's profit increases become the measuring stick of success . The company leaders in this environment can't afford a misstep or they are voted out and replaced. Thus the focus on short term success. Why worry about the future when they probably will be long gone by then. I worked for Walmart when Sam died and the corporate philosophy totally changed after his death. It got ugly quick. You can't go back. The founder and his vision are gone and those left are trying to claw their way to a bigger piece of the pie
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
I would say that I had this feeling when I was younger, though I didn't know anyone else who really felt the same. It's interesting to find out that I wasn't the only one.



This is an interesting point. I can't say that I'm convinced of the concept (at least on the macro level) but it has actually given me something new to think about and a new angle to view things from.

I appreciate that.. I needed to waste more processing time on WDW ;)

And don't mistake me; I grew up in a very Disney-friendly house, nearly wore out my VHS copy of Sword in the Stone as a little kid, watched a lot of Disney Channel, mom was a pretty big fan so she often had magazines or items around that my brother and I got a kick out of, etc., so the studio side of Disney definitely played a large role in our media upbringing.

However, both my brother and I, even on trips when we were very young, seemed to get more of a kick out of original WDW creations than at, say, going on rides at Fantasyland. We still loved getting character autographs through our early years, don't get me wrong, but his favorite ride was always Imagination, I was always an EPCOT kid, etc. It was the overall vibe; it was stuff we couldn't see at home on Disney Channel (outside of a given show they might put on about one of the theme parks), which made it special, but it all still had that "Disney feel" to it, so we also associated it with the movies and cartoons we enjoyed back home.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
The common occurrence is that the companies lost their founder. Their security blanket. If an idea isn't going well he can calm the waters and give everyone a chance to do their job. But when the founder is gone there is no patience or optimism and the board focuses on profits and let's profit increases become the measuring stick of success . The company leaders in this environment can't afford a misstep or they are voted out and replaced. Thus the focus on short term success. Why worry about the future when they probably will be long gone by then. I worked for Walmart when Sam died and the corporate philosophy totally changed after his death. It got ugly quick. You can't go back. The founder and his vision are gone and those left are trying to claw their way to a bigger piece of the pie
A rather sad indictment of modern business culture.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
A rather sad indictment of modern business culture.
Why? It is really pretty normal. It's like having a wonderful automobile and the engine blows up. The car may be beautiful, but it is useless until another engine is installed. If that engine is not as good as the original then the car is not going to be what it used to be. Business is the same way especially if it is run by a strong personality. When that person is gone the engine dies. Someone else steps in and has a theory of their own and they have control. If the original had a strong enough personality, there are many that basically fight every effort the new person makes to operate under their own philosophy. Instead of having a close knit organization you have people fighting one another with no unity or purpose. When elements are missing that are not replaceable, it never is what it used to be. It can't be... an essential part of what made it work is missing.

This whole discussion is about what is missing these days in Disney. The answer, of course, is Walt Disney. His influence has held on pretty strong over the 50 years he has been dead. Amazing really... no Disney even has a financial toe hold and yet so many of things that Walt believed has been carried on. The difference is that all the current leadership have to answer to a different group of leaders.

They have to answer to stockholders that may or may not have a clue about how a Disney Theme Park should work. Their only method of judgement is what the earnings on their investments are. If they are unhappy, the sell out, unload a portion of their ownership at a lesser amount and overnight, the company is way poorer then it was when everyone was happy. We like to think that they don't matter, but, they matter just as much as any other part of the organization that is no longer held together by the strong personality that it once was.

Even Walt had problems with stock holders and as soon as he could he bought back controlling interest so he could once again make the final decisions. Well, folks, there currently is no Walt Disney. There is no one that even if they had the power would know what decisions to make. The only thing that they can do is live for today and hope that tomorrow holds together, because those stockholders are looking at the value of their investments today. Not what it might be in five years. You cannot spend five years from now in todays supermarket.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
So the stock buy backs then are the greatest visionary thinking in a generation.
Where did I say that? I along with every other stinking rich person on the boards do not really know how that is going to work out. But, I did say that Walt bought back controlling interest. We got what we have from that happening. I'm thinking that's not all bad, but, to be honest I have no actual idea what that is going to eventually create.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Where did I say that? I along with every other stinking rich person on the boards do not really know how that is going to work out. But, I did say that Walt bought back controlling interest. We got what we have from that happening. I'm thinking that's not all bad, but, to be honest I have no actual idea what that is going to eventually create.

The current Disney Co is not buying back stock to maintain a controlling interest like Walt, so it's not a proper comparison. The current buybacks can be attributed primarily to manipulating the price to earnings ratio.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom