A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

bclane

Well-Known Member
I feel like the best thing that could happen to Disney fans is for Universal to completely out Disney Disney with every new attraction they build. And the best thing that could happen to Universal fans is for Disney to do the same right back every time. We're all winners in this. Just please Mickey, please be more thoughtful about where you put your new toys and playgrounds!
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
You respond to nearly every critique of Universal with “You just don’t get it and you must like [insert example of crap work by Disney].” You completely disregard the actual criticism of Universal and the possibility of any criticism of Disney.
There are plenty of legitimate debates to be had about both companies. But colored slides and resort style lazy rivers being epic theming fails isn't one of them. You want to talk about the truly impressive cluster f of Universal opening a park that was soooo not ready for prime time? Sure, lots to be said there. You could write a book. You want to talk about "water park as a theme park"? Great, have at it. You want to harp incessantly about the unfinished volcano? I'm gonna call you a dumb***. The Volcano IS finished. You want to talk about exposed show buildings? That's always a lively and legitimate debate. You want to go off on the slashing of the budget on Kong, I'm going to call you on it. That is fake news and a widely accepted talking point. Didn't happen. There was never a scene where a 35' robot was going to chase the truck through the jungle. As a matter of fact, the original Kong plan was for it to replace Disaster! utilizing the existing ride system. The budget was greatly INCREASED in it's move to IOA, but the chase scene was NEVER considered for the attraction.

What I have found is, if you want insightful debate about a company, talk to it's fans, not the fans of the competition. Those almost always devolve into shallow hyperbole on both sides, and of that, I am as guilty as everyone else.

And I actually consider myself a fan of both companies. I've been going to Disney Parks since Christmas 1971. I know Disney. I try to stick to talking about Disney here, and Universal over at Inside Universal aka Orlando United. But I get triggered by so many of the obviously biased comments.
 
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TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of legitimate debates to be had about both companies. But colored slides and resort style lazy rivers being epic theming fails isn't one of them. You want to talk about the truly impressive cluster f of Universal opening a park that was soooo not ready for prime time? Sure, lots to be said there. You could write a book. You want to talk about "water park as a theme park"? Great, have at it. You want to harp incessantly about the unfinished volcano? I'm gonna call you a dumb***. The Volcano IS finished. You want to talk about exposed show buildings? That's always a lively and legitimate debate. You want to go off on the slashing of the budget on Kong, I'm going to call you on it. That is fake news and a widely accepted talking point. Didn't happen. There was never a scene where a 35' robot was going to chase the truck through the jungle. As a matter of fact, the original Kong plan was for it to replace Disaster! utilizing the existing ride system. The budget was greatly INCREASED in it's move to IOA, but the chase scene was NEVER considered for the attraction.

What I have found is, if you want insightful debate about a company, talk to it's fans, not the fans of the competition. Those almost always devolve into shallow hyperbole on both sides, and of that, I am as guilty as everyone else.

And I actually consider myself a fan of both companies. I've been going to Disney Parks since Christmas 1971. I know Disney. I try to stick to talking about Disney here, and Universal over at Inside Universal aka Orlando United. But I get triggered by so many of the obviously biased comments.

Would you agree that Universal hasn't done anything that equals the Potter areas/attractions?
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
You’re not doing any different. You’re arguing the same preconceived argument you’ve argued before that ignores everything that doesn’t align with that preconceived argument.
In all fairness, nearly everyone does this. Cognitive bias is real, y'all. Why do you think so many people still support -----?
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Would you agree that Universal hasn't done anything that equals the Potter areas/attractions?
Well, they obviously haven't done anything on the scale of Potter. But I think Kong is on the same level of quality as Gringott's. And it has a lot of the exact same issues. Wonky pacing, less than successful screen integration, and an anticlimactic climax. I also think as a whole Fallon is a high quality D Ticket attraction. I truly don't see the popular talking point that unless an outside company holds their hand, Universal fails.
 

shortstop

Well-Known Member
I try to stick to talking about Disney here, and Universal over at Inside Universal aka Orlando United.
LOL... I seem to recall you being involved in many of the unnecessary UNI v. Disney debates on here. And you can't call yourself a Disney fan and then generalize all "Disney fans" by saying everyone who likes Disney finds the All-Stars to be the pinnacle of theming.

In any case I don't know why you feel the need to jump to the defense of Universal when certain people don't like the colors of the waterslides they built. You're no better than the "Disney fans" you keep bashing.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
LOL... I seem to recall you being involved in many of the unnecessary UNI v. Disney debates on here. And you can't call yourself a Disney fan and then generalize all "Disney fans" by saying everyone who likes Disney finds the All-Stars to be the pinnacle of theming.

In any case I don't know why you feel the need to jump to the defense of Universal when certain people don't like the colors of the waterslides they built. You're no better than the "Disney fans" you keep bashing.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A reread of what I actually wrote would maybe clear things up. Many does not equal all. And I never said anyone had to "like" the colored slides. Just that them being colored is thematically correct. And what they are demanding is not. So them screaming about theming fails while demanding one is illogical. And I never said that the All Stars are the pennacle of quality theming, just that many Disney fans like it and being there fills their hearts with warmth and they see nothing tacky about it, but they do when looking at Volcano Bay.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
How is it skirting the issue? It is flat out saying the many Disney fans are blinded by their bias and absolutely unwilling to analyze what is actually presented because it doesn't fit in their preconcieved notions on how it should be.

Who are you talking about/to? Who on here that you actually respect has compared AoA favourably to Volcano Bay? Who even has gone on in a similar fashion to Toy Story Land (a far more apt comparison with its equally ornamented bright exposed ride infrastructure)?

I think the perception is that Disney fans let things slide and nitpick Universal, but when you venture into said Disney threads people are ripping it apart even more so.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Well, they obviously haven't done anything on the scale of Potter. But I think Kong is on the same level of quality as Gringott's. And it has a lot of the exact same issues. Wonky pacing, less than successful screen integration, and an anticlimactic climax. I also think as a whole Fallon is a high quality D Ticket attraction. I truly don't see the popular talking point that unless an outside company holds their hand, Universal fails.
Say what?

Kong is better than Gringotts.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Who are you talking about/to? Who on here that you actually respect has compared AoA favourably to Volcano Bay? Who even has gone on in a similar fashion to Toy Story Land (a far more apt comparison with its equally ornamented bright exposed ride infrastructure)?

I think the perception is that Disney fans let things slide and nitpick Universal, but when you venture into said Disney threads people are ripping it apart even more so.
I see MUCH more complaining about VB's colored slides than over Slinky's exposed track. For Slinky it's a lot of "just what the park needs", "it looks fun", "it's ok, it's for kids".
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I see MUCH more complaining about VB's colored slides than over Slinky's exposed track. For Slinky it's a lot of "just what the park needs", "it looks fun", "it's ok, it's for kids".

Of course! That's because the baseline fandom reaction was "it's a hot mess".

On the other hand the baseline reaction to VB was that it was category redefining. Who has ever said that about Toy Story Land? (well... other than Kathy Magnum)

What you are describing is an issue of expectations. They are constantly rock bottom for Disney these days and overinflated for Universal.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
And we always wonder what @WDW1974 thinks about 25 pages of movie talk when park operations is more his pervue. I can see if he just says screw it and leaves for greener pastures.

Parks
Of course! That's because the baseline fandom reaction was "it's a hot mess".

On the other hand the baseline reaction to VB was that it was category redefining. Who has ever said that about Toy Story Land? (well... other than Kathy Magnum)

What you are describing is an issue of expectations. They are constantly rock bottom for Disney these days and overinflated for Universal.

The expectations are as you say rock bottom for Disney and overinflated for UNI because subconsciously most theme park fans have come to understand that todays Disney will no longer wow them with amazing attractions. Yet theme park fans look at HPW at Uni and hope to be wowed again.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Yet they increased attendance by almost a million.
Picture the park before and after wizarding world. There was a studio/spanish mission entrance gate, Waterworld, a haunted house, a special effects show and animal show, the backlot tour, Back to the Future/Simpsons, a Shrek 4d film, Terminator/Minions, Mummy, Jurassic, and Transformers. I literally just named everything in the park so it might sound like a lot, but it really isn't. Some screenz, some live shows, and 2 actual rides. The focus was on the studio backlot, never on theming. This is their first true theme park land and it happens to be one of the best architecturally. The place remains a mess. It is a gain overall, but the ride itself... I'm sorry.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Ok, it must have been the voices in my head then. Thank you for confirming that I am either a) senile at the ripe ol age of 47 or b) crazy. Thanks Obama.

Edit: I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat...so I use the thanks Obama meme in jest only. Don't hate me!

No, somebody mentioned that somewhere.
 
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Pixieish

Well-Known Member
I have come to the conclusion that people will only enjoy things they WANT to enjoy regardless of quality. And once they form their negative opinion, no amount of facts will change their mind.

Just try and convince a Disney fan that the colored visible slides at Volcano Bay are actually in theme. That FACT is irrelevant to them. They cover their ears and scream, "Na, na, na, na, I can't hear you. Slides are ALWAYS tan, na, na, na. Disney said so, na, na, na!" All you can do when one of them goes off on Universal for sucking at theming because of the visible colored slides is shake you head and write them off as hopeless Pixie Dusters. Once a narrative has taken hold in their head they are done thinking about it. So, many of the folks who soil themselves with glee from seeing this,

Disneys-All-Star-Movies-Resort_Full_7567.jpg


Are beside themselves with apoplexy at how cheap, tacky, and epic fail in theming this is.

Volcano-Bay-43.jpg

See, to my kids, the theming at AS Movies blows away the theming in the Universal pic. The way they look at the Andy's Room courtyard is like they've entered kid heaven. They wouldn't be overly impressed by the theming in the above pic of Universal at all. Sure, they'd love the slides and (hopefully - I don't know if they have one) kiddie swim area, but they're big on water play anyway. (Just ask Great Wolf Lodge...hubby and I aren't fans, but they both love it so we're soon going for the second time in less than three months.)

We've stayed at both CBR (pirate room) and AS Movies, and while they loved the main pool and splash area at CBR and could have spent days doing that without even entering the parks, they made sure both my husband and I knew that they missed Movies because of the theming. Personally, I'd rather stay at CBR or Port Orleans because they have theming style I prefer and the convenience of buses...but that's me.
 
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