A sequel? Nah, not this one

[LittleBuford]

Not a big fan of Aladdin in Morocco

I've always been struck by how little this example seems to come up in debate given that Agrabah is no more real than Arandelle, though I suppose it would be more controversial if we were dealing with a ride as opposed to a meet-and-greet.

Morocco has some of the most authentic details among all the pavilions. The courtyard especially is so well done that you could almost fancy yourself in the real thing.

 

[deWild]

Iger isn't running for anything anytime soon. Right now his main objective is staying out of the news.

I don’t imagine him running for office at all, or at least only as Kamala’s VP in 2024. Politics aside, he wants to preserve his legacy.

 

[LittleBuford]

I'd buy ALL the Danish flag swag.

Fun fact: it’s the oldest national flag still in use.

 

[rowrbazzle]

I did not know this! But a quick google search turned up several Disney blog posts that take 250 words and lots of ads to tell me the same thing you did in one sentence, so thanks!

Haha That's a great description of seemingly 90% of Disney websites.

 

[deWild]

True, but when have the other pavilions correctly celebrated a country's culture. For instance, I don't think a rat that makes food and a woman with ice powers represent Paris and Norway that well.

Those were both added recently. I think they represent the culture pretty well, but the additions are what people on this board take issue with.

 

[LittleBuford]

The problem here is the story for me. Frozen Ever After and Rat have nothing to do with the culture of the country they are in. They could each be plopped in Studios or Fantasyland with no changes and fit just fine. That's the issue I have. The STORY of the attraction isn't adjusted to meet their location. And, that's flat out lazy to me. You could easily adjust the content of the ride to fully capitalize on the popularity of the characters and still fit Epcot and it's goals. Instead, they try to design something to be copied elsewhere with no changes - and then try to rewrite the story of the park. That's downright offensive to me (personally) as a fan. Are there previous examples of this that people have let go? Sure. But it's going from the exception to the norm - and growing more and more blatant.

Wouldnt you agree that the Mount Fuji coaster that was originally planned for Japan would have been equally opportunistic and culturally uninformative?

 

[RSoxNo1]

I always viewed Song of the South as a way to place Uncle Remus on a glorified pedestal. In spite of all the crap that is slavery, this guy was the “go to” for wise, personified life lessons... just because it’s about a slave, it becomes a racist movie??? I don’t get it- to me, he’s a hero! Why squelch his story?!? Shoot, I am proud of his story!!
wrong thread, I know-
but thanks any way for listening to my Ted Talk

In Splash Mountain he was turned into a frog and now needs Tiana to kiss him to make him human again. It comes full circle.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The problem here is the story for me. Frozen Ever After and Rat have nothing to do with the culture of the country they are in. They could each be plopped in Studios or Fantasyland with no changes and fit just fine. That's the issue I have. The STORY of the attraction isn't adjusted to meet their location. And, that's flat out lazy to me. You could easily adjust the content of the ride to fully capitalize on the popularity of the characters and still fit Epcot and it's goals. Instead, they try to design something to be copied elsewhere with no changes - and then try to rewrite the story of the park. That's downright offensive to me (personally) as a fan. Are there previous examples of this that people have let go? Sure. But it's going from the exception to the norm - and growing more and more blatant.

I think Rat is a better fit, but I hear you.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Fun fact: it’s the oldest national flag still in use.

My mom used to decorate our Christmas tree with garlands of Danish flags. I've kept the tradition going. I used to ask why we never had any Danish variations of Columbus Day in the U.S. and she said that unbelievably, society drew the line at Vikings. In jest, of course (kind of).

 

[LittleBuford]

My mom used to decorate our Christmas tree with garlands of Danish flags.

Fascinating! Was there any particular reason for this?

 

[brianstl]

It would still have been anomalous in relation to the other pavilions, which represent specific sovereign states as opposed to generalised regions. Neither this approach nor the Wakanda proposal do justice to the many real countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa.

Well then one of those real African countries needs to step up with some money.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Fascinating! Was there any particular reason for this?

My mother was first generation American, I think this was a tradition in Denmark with her parents, maybe widespread? That, and rice pudding on Christmas eve. There were others, like... there was no Santa Claus. Instead, my brothers and I were given presents by the Nisseman (I don't know if I'm spelling that correctly). So, when kids at school said Santa wasn't real, I said, "of course he isn't, bu a gnome does hide presents for us around the house."

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I think Rat is a better fit, but I hear you.

I'm interested in why, if you're open to sharing. Having done the one in Paris, it is solely about Remy deciding what dish to cook to impress us as his audience (vs. a story about teaching us about French culinary techniques or showcasing his favorite dishes he learned in Paris to show us). Obviously, they could tweak the story and we aren't aware of it. But, it's still a Remy story that happens to be set in Paris IMHO. And, the area in WDSP is clearly set up to be Remy's Paris vs. actual Paris or romanticized Paris. And, the cartoony Paris behind the pavilion leads me to believe that is the goal at Epcot, too.

With that, a number of people say it feels more like a fit. I would love to hear more about why - especially if you have seen the one in Paris.

(And, given text on the internet, please note this is genuine curiosity! I'd really like to hear other perspectives, since I think there's a way to really satisfy a bigger percentage of the audience. This isn't intended as a passive aggressive, "Prove your point to me" post. )

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I find this almost impossible to believe, not from the perspective of thematic integrity, but because it would be a massive PR disaster. Disney would rightly be accused of extraordinary cultural ignorance and insensitivity if they chose to represent sub-Saharan Africa through a fictional country.

I also find this rumour baffling as I can't imagine it would get beyond an initial pitch quickly killed by someone raising their hand to explain all the ways this would be an absolutely horrible look for Disney. Forget thematic integrity, I can see this being international news and not in a good way for Disney!

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I've always been struck by how little this example seems to come up in debate given that Agrabah is no more real than Arandelle, though I suppose it would be more controversial if we were dealing with a ride as opposed to a meet-and-greet.

Morocco has some of the most authentic details among all the pavilions. The courtyard especially is so well done that you could almost fancy yourself in the real thing.

I can give a possible perspective. It does bother me - Aladdin being one of the most problematic. But, Aladdin feels like the rest of the meet and greets - i.e. shoved into the pavilion they resemble the most. It was a way to add characters in WDW's favorite way of yore - the ever present meet and greet (and every pavilion needed one). But, I can ignore it relatively easily. Gran Fiesta Tour and Nemo were my first problem, since it focuses more on the character story (i.e. gotta find Donald/Nemo) vs. actually exploring the location). FEA was the next giant step. So, it meant I couldn't ignore the problem any longer. The Epcot I love and want to visit is now being officially killed off (literally in the case of FEA). Don't know if others feel the same - but I thought that may lend one perspective!

 

[LittleBuford]

Well then one of those real African countries needs to step up with some money.

Others can correct me if I’m wrong (I don’t pretend to be a WDW history buff), but of the nine original pavilions, apparently not a single one was paid for by a government:

Yesterland: Two Myths about World Showcase at Epcot

www.yesterland.com

Original sponsors (as quoted from the linked article):

The American Adventure: American Express, Coca Cola
Canada: (no participant)
United Kingdom: Bass Export Ltd., Pringle of Scotland, Royal Doulton
France: Barton & Guestier (B&G), Guye Larouche, Lanson Champagne, The France Chefs (Paul Bocuse, Gaston Lenôtre, Roger Vergé, and Associate Didier Fouret)
Japan: Mitsukoshi, Inc.
Italy: Alfredo, The Original of Rome, Brolio/Ricasoli & Bersano Wines of Italy
Germany: Bahlsen, Brauerei Back and Co., Goebel, Hutschenreuther, Schmitt Söhne
China: (no participant)
Mexico: Moctezuma Brewery, San Angel Inn

 

[FerretAfros]

Denmark could have had representation? Oh, boo. I'd buy ALL the Danish flag swag.

In a way, Denmark has been represented since opening day.

The restrooms that were eventually incorporated into the Norway pavilion were originally intended to be part of a future Denmark pavilion. The free-standing structure opened with the park in 1982; by the time the opened in 1988, the pavilion's concept had morphed from Denmark into an amalgamated Scandinavia, before finally settling on Norway by itself.

Retro Neverworlds – The Lost Potties Of Denmark

How do you tell a Disney nerd? This is how. So, at the Theme Park Review site, they have this swell thread about early EPCOT Center. Of course, its swellness is enhanced by the fact that it says ni…

progresscityusa.com

The facility was remodeled and expanded when the Frozen meet & greet was added. The men's restroom still occupies the original "Denmark" pavilion building, while the women's restroom was moved into the new building next door.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Wouldnt you agree that the Mount Fuji coaster that was originally planned for Japan would have been equally opportunistic and culturally uninformative?

I'm not sure I understand. While not necessarily informative, Mt. Fuji is a legitimate cultural icon of Japan - and the ride would have been exploring the mountain (admittedly not with a lot of education, but still inspired by and focused on a real world location). So, it fits the general notion of showcasing the real world.

Is there something about the original attraction I'm maybe misunderstanding?

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm not sure I understand. While not necessarily informative, Mt. Fuji is a legitimate cultural icon of Japan - and the ride would have been exploring the mountain (admittedly not with a lot of education, but still inspired by and focused on a real world location). So, it fits the general notion of showcasing the real world.

Is there something about the original attraction I'm maybe misunderstanding?

I suppose I don’t see such a ride contributing in any meaningful way to the pavilion’s cultural value (which isn’t to say I’d be opposed to it). That’s what I meant.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Forget Wakanda, World Showcase needs a Zamunda Pavilion.