A sequel? Nah, not this one

[Dizknee_Phreek]

Cancel Culture™

Hardly.

 

[brettf22]

As opposed to representing Africa with a shack and drums?

That would be just a shack now. Drums are gone due to COVID. Moose out front should have told you.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Moose out front should have told you.

I understood that reference!

 

[kingdead]

I wouldn't be surprised if they put Wakanda in as a way to eventually get away from the "real world" theming at Epcot. Back when Epcot opened, there wasn't the Internet, the global supply chain, and relatively cheap airfare, so going to "Germany" or "Japan" was fun and exotic. Today, those attractions are competing with international media and a vastly expanded restaurant scene (especially for the upscale visitors Disney wants to attract). Yeah, putting in a comic book Africa might be offensive IF the Epcot concept was going to stick around forever, but it probably won't.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yeah, putting in a comic book Africa might be offensive IF the Epcot concept was going to stick around forever, but it probably won't.

I thought we had it on reasonably good authority that Brazil and India were planned for the future.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

The Guardians ride at Epcot cost $450 million. I am not messing with you all.

For perspective, the entirety of Diagon Alley was $500M. I'm pretty sure New Fantasyland as a whole also hovered around that price tag (although those were 2009 dollars so YMMV).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I wouldn't be surprised if they put Wakanda in as a way to eventually get away from the "real world" theming at Epcot. Back when Epcot opened, there wasn't the Internet, the global supply chain, and relatively cheap airfare, so going to "Germany" or "Japan" was fun and exotic. Today, those attractions are competing with international media and a vastly expanded restaurant scene (especially for the upscale visitors Disney wants to attract). Yeah, putting in a comic book Africa might be offensive IF the Epcot concept was going to stick around forever, but it probably won't.

You’re right, they should focus more on movies that I definitely can’t watch anywhere at anytime.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I think in the days of war and COVID, World Showcase is even more important as an opportunity to experience a taste of other cultures.

 

[tirian]

It’s also a question of when, not just how. We’re living in a supposedly more aware time than when the Outpost was set up.

Nah, the original Equatorial Africa pavilion would’ve been gorgeous. The Outpost was just a quick theme tossed onto a Coke stand.

 

[LittleBuford]

Nah, the original Equatorial Africa pavilion would’ve been gorgeous.

It would still have been anomalous in relation to the other pavilions, which represent specific sovereign states as opposed to generalised regions. Neither this approach nor the Wakanda proposal do justice to the many real countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[NateD1226]

It would still have been anomalous in relation to the other pavilions, which represent specific nation states as opposed to generalised regions. Neither this approach nor the Wakanda proposal do justice to the many real countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa.

True, but when have the other pavilions correctly celebrated a country's culture. For instance, I don't think a rat that makes food and a woman with ice powers represent Paris and Norway that well.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

It would still have been anomalous in relation to the other pavilions, which represent specific countries as opposed to generalised regions. Neither this approach nor the Wakanda proposal do justice to the many real countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa.

Agreed. And I truly wish we were having a heated debate over why the Equatorial Africa pavilion doesn't fit (given your assessment above) vs. the debates we're now facing.

 

[LittleBuford]

True, but when have the other pavilions correctly celebrated a country's culture. For instance, I don't think a rat that makes food and a woman with ice powers represent Paris and Norway that well.

I don’t criticise World Showcase for its lack of realism—all the pavilions are Disneyfied to a greater or lesser extent. But I think there’s a difference between a pavilion that represents a real place in fantastical ways and a pavilion that is altogether fictional.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It would still have been anomalous in relation to the other pavilions, which represent specific sovereign states as opposed to generalised regions. Neither this approach nor the Wakanda proposal do justice to the many real countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa.

Norway started as a Scandinavia pavillion.

 

[LittleBuford]

Norway started as a Scandinavia pavillion.

That too would have been an unfortunate anomaly, though (given various historical contexts that are probably best discussed elsewhere) not as problematic as a generalised Equatorial Africa pavilion.

 

[_caleb]

Either World Showcase will continue to be "based on real places, but with remotely-related IP thrown in," or these additions are the beginnings of a move toward replacing some/all of the real-world-based places with entirely fictional places (Wakanda). I think they'll straddle the line with the hybrid approach for now. With this approach, Wakanda wouldn't be a standalone pavilion, but rather an attraction/sub-pavilion within a proper pavilion themed to specific African-country/countries.

I would only hate a Wakanda boat ride in a Mozambique pavilion about as much as I hate Arendelle in Norway, which is to say-only a little. For some reason, I love the idea of Coco in Mexico. Not a big fan of Aladdin in Morocco, but Ratatouille in France somehow works for me.

For the record, I'm still a World Showcase purist at heart- I think the places based on real-life with some representation of authentic food, music, and culture is the best and most Epcot approach.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I don’t criticise World Showcase for its lack of realism—all the pavilions are Disneyfied to a greater or lesser extent. But I think there’s a difference between a pavilion that represents a real place in fantastical ways and a pavilion that is altogether fictional.

This is a really important point to make. If you want more realistic representations, I think DAK wins there hands down. Epcot is about the overarching story - one world taking time to learn about various cultures in an afternoon. Obviously, there are problems in what is and is not represented. But, the pavilions are meant to be postcards to the romanticized version of each country. But, it's still about humanity coming together.

I think the biggest issue I have now is the hodgepodge. It feels anymore like Disney gets a survey and then has to appease each crowd. Some want characters. Some don't. So, we'll do half and half. But, that abandonment of overall theme is the exact problem. It's the issue we've seen in TL, Studios, etc.

I honestly would rather have a World Showcase where we explore "cultures around the world that inspired some of our favorite Disney stories". But, then the pavilions all need to fit that story. Writing the story to match a mixed up mess is the antithesis of Disney Parks' best offerings.

 

[_caleb]

Norway started as a Scandinavia pavillion.

I did not know this! But a quick google search turned up several Disney blog posts that take 250 words and lots of ads to tell me the same thing you did in one sentence, so thanks!

 

[Parker in NYC]

Norway started as a Scandinavia pavillion.

Denmark could have had representation? Oh, boo. I'd buy ALL the Danish flag swag.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Either World Showcase will continue to be "based on real places, but with remotely-related IP thrown in," or these additions are the beginnings of a move toward replacing some/all of the real-world-based places with entirely fictional places (Wakanda). I think they'll straddle the line with the hybrid approach for now. With this approach, Wakanda wouldn't be a standalone pavilion, but rather an attraction/sub-pavilion within a proper pavilion themed to specific African-country/countries.

I would only hate a Wakanda boat ride in a Mozambique pavilion about as much as I hate Arendelle in Norway, which is to say-only a little. For some reason, I love the idea of Coco in Mexico. Not a big fan of Aladdin in Morocco, but Ratatouille in France somehow works for me.

For the record, I'm still a World Showcase purist at heart- I think the places based on real-life with some representation of authentic food, music, and culture is the best and most Epcot approach.

The problem here is the story for me. Frozen Ever After and Rat have nothing to do with the culture of the country they are in. They could each be plopped in Studios or Fantasyland with no changes and fit just fine. That's the issue I have. The STORY of the attraction isn't adjusted to meet their location. And, that's flat out lazy to me. You could easily adjust the content of the ride to fully capitalize on the popularity of the characters and still fit Epcot and it's goals. Instead, they try to design something to be copied elsewhere with no changes - and then try to rewrite the story of the park. That's downright offensive to me (personally) as a fan. Are there previous examples of this that people have let go? Sure. But it's going from the exception to the norm - and growing more and more blatant.