A long time Disney fan turns sour!

[21stamps]

Not to be pedantic, but reading and researching a vacation/trip *IS* planning. The level of reading and researching necessary to know the "tricks of the trade" for a Disney newcomer is indeed part of the excessive and obsessive planning for their trip.

For sure. Planning and research is important and part of any trip, Disney or not.
I think what Jae99 was saying, or at least what I have been saying, is the claims of - “Disney makes us plan all of our meals at 180 days out” and “all of our rides at 60 days out”- these comments, which are plentiful online, have made people think that’s what must be done.. and then that extends to planning every day almost by the hour, because “Disney forces us to”.
They don’t force us to, and it isn’t necessary to have a fantastic trip. 60 day FP may be needed for 1 or 2 rides if you want the peace of mind of having them before you arrive, 1 or 2 restaurants that are “must dos” can be booked a few months early.. but most restaurants will show availability in less than 30 days from a trip.
The thing is, almost every vacation is similar in that regard.. even if it’s not rides that you’re booking early. For some reason we tend to stress about Disney even more than other destinations, I definitely fell for it. The key is to be flexible if something goes wrong, just like we would if we were anywhere else in the non-disney world.

 

[21stamps]

Reading this thread and forum is research and "planning". So anyone on here who is saying they just wing it is being disingenuous.

I don’t think anyone here said that they “just wing it”. If people are fed up with Disney, fine for them. But disappointments can happen on any trip, anywhere, and at any cost.
Learning how to adapt and be flexible is more realistic than expecting Disney, a place with humans and machines, to always be free of any kind of error.

ETA- I was at WDW for 2 nights the Friday before Thanksgiving. Extreme slim Resort options.. slight road block 1.
Showed up 6 hours late and decided I wanted to switch resorts- Detour 1.
Slept thru our wake up call, woke up late, cancelled our FPs for MK because we were way past rope drop- Detour 2.
Decided on AK instead.
Drove myself to AK- Mistake 14.
Purchased tickets to MVMCP while at AK. Hopped to HS after.
Rode the rides we were most interested in at HS.
Went back to hotel to shower, change for MVMCP.
Noticed the size of the bus stop, decided to Uber instead.
During that time I booked and then cancelled a dinner at Chef Mickey’s.
Started the day with 0 FPs.

Not once were we wandering around aimlessly or couldn’t get a table service if I wanted it.

Do I recommend doing that for more than one day? Nope.
Can it be done? Absolutely

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I don’t post here very often but I read the forums all the time. So, believe me when I say I’m not here to stir anything up. I just wanted to relay my thoughts from my recent trip (Dec 10 – 16).

I just got back from my 14th trip to Disney World and I have to say I was disappointed. For the first time ever, I have to say I don’t look forward to going back. My family started going back in 2002 so I may not be a super Disney goer but I have been enough times that I have plenty of experience and have seen things come and go.

We stayed in an Art of Animation Nemo suite. The room was nice enough with a few things wrong … the fridge didn’t work, the remote in the bedroom wouldn’t turn the TV on, the piece that keeps water in the shower from coming out under the door was missing, and a light over the table was blinking. Not terrible things but annoying.

The parks were crowded for an early December trip (10 – 16). However, I knew crowds have been picking up lately so not unexpected. I remember the days when a trip in December meant a walk on, on all rides!

But here is what really got me. Disney is chipping away at its exceptional guest experience. This is the first trip that I CAN'T say felt awesome or magical. I have worked for a large corporation for better than 20 years and they do the same thing. They chip away at their employees until they can no longer give their loyalty. In fact, I have quit that job and moved on. The same thing is happening to Disney. In the past, I would have argued anyone down that Disney was the best vacation a family would ever take. But not anymore. Like at my former job my loyalty to Disney is fading.

So, what is different? I have been thinking about it and this is just some of the things I have come up with.

Fastpass+

This system is not thought out well and I believe has ruined a positive Disney experience for guests. 60 days prior to arrival I logged in to make my fast pass reservations. Much to my surprise there were no Avatar Flight of Passage or Frozen or Seven Dwarf Mine Train fast passes until 5 days into our trip. What? NO fast passes? I finally got a fast pass for Avatar Flight of Passage for a Thursday night but there was one problem with that. We were going to EPCOT that morning. Therefore, we could make no fast passes for EPCOT that day. You can’t have fast passes spanning parks. Also, how am I supposed to know two months in advance what ride I want to ride at what time. This is beyond crazy. People who know me know that I am a big planner. I have multiple spreadsheets and create food lists and all sorts of things. But when it comes down to it, you just can’t always know exactly where you want to be on any particular day and certainly not minute by minute. And heaven forbid you might change your mind and want to go to a park you haven't planned for. I pity the folks who can’t plan the way I do. I bet they don’t get to do anything at Disney with this new system.

In addition, the system of fast passes is driving traffic to other rides. I saw a 40 minute wait for The Land! During a “slow” time, “off season” time there was a 40 minute wait for The Land! Now, I have read on this great forum that Disney wanted to do that. But now there are no rides that have short waits. This can really make for a long day. What do you do when you are waiting for your fast pass. I guess you wait 40 minutes for The Land.


Food

We got the free quick service dining this time. We have had it many times before. We no longer want the table service dining. First everything was covered. Then tips were not covered. Then you no longer could get appetizers. And I don’t know what all may have changed since the last time we had that plan. Can you see the trend? Chipping away at the guest experience until someone like me no longer even wants it. The quick service food is the same way. Disney has streamlined everything. You can get the same hot dog no matter where you go. The thing is I don’t want the same hot dog or hamburger everywhere. The choices are really limited too. I can remember when quick service restaurants had all kinds of choices, including free hot cheese which my daughters loved. Sorry, they don’t have the cheese any more or maybe they do for a buck. (Chipping Away!)


Buses

Don’t even get me started on the buses. Waited 45 minutes on a bus at Disney Springs. Stood on every single bus back and forth from the parks except maybe once. They let every single scooter and their families on the bus FIRST even if I had been waiting there forever and they just pulled up. The driver refused to go until we had so many people standing we couldn’t even move. “Keep moving back! I can see you can still breathing there sir so there must not be enough people on this bus!” If a bus had an accident we would most likely all be dead. If I drove around with no seat belt I would get a ticket. How can they get away with 10000 people on one bus? You talk about not a good guest experience. That may be the worst of them all! Or how about when they drop you off, not at your bus stop, but at no place in particular nowhere close to the park.


Anyway, sorry for my rambling on. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m getting older and I don’t see things the same way I used to. But I won’t be going back for a while. A long, long while. Disney has chipped away at costs and such until they have ruined my guest experience. I don’t pay top dollar to go to Disney so I can go to an average park. If I wanted that I’d going to that other place. They need to get back to what made them great and not just settle for “okay” with a lot more profit.

Not seeing a lot here with which I can sympathize or empathize.

If you read here a lot, I would think you would have set more realistic expectations. It’s hard for me to take people seriously who are complaining about Fastpass+ as if that hasn’t been discussed ad nauseum and as if that’s the cause of long waits when the parks are crowded.

With a little deviation from the way you used to do things, and a little positive attitude, you can have a very fulfilling time, even on busy park days.

I’ve said this many times, proven it, and documented it in my TR’s: you can go last minute and (with a little flexibility) get the best table and the hottest attraction. You may need to stand in line for the newest one, but you don’t quit looking after the morning of your 60 day mark. You keep trying for the important ones, especially in the days just before your trip, and the odds are in your favor to get most of them except maybe if you have a huge party with you.

Complaining about scooters getting on the bus before you is not a good look.

Food: if you choose QS only, you still have good options if you look for them. That shouldn’t be difficult for a big planner. Columbia Harbor House, Pandora, etc. etc.

But if you want better food, it’s your choice to go beyond QS or not. You make your own experience based on what’s important to you.

Yes, it’s more crowded now. That’s a cultural thing more than Disney’s fault. As new attractions open and age, that may even out.

Yes, things get reduced everywhere. It’s big business in America.

But bottom line: if I can make it work, so can you.

 

[21stamps]

Not seeing a lot here with which I can sympathize or empathize.

If you read here a lot, I would think you would have set more realistic expectations. It’s hard for me to take people seriously who are complaining about Fastpass+ as if that hasn’t been discussed ad nauseum and as if that’s the cause of long waits when the parks are crowded.

With a little deviation from the way you used to do things, and a little positive attitude, you can have a very fulfilling time, even on busy park days.

I’ve said this many times, proven it, and documented it in my TR’s: you can go last minute and (with a little flexibility) get the best table and the hottest attraction. You may need to stand in line for the newest one, but you don’t quit looking after the morning of your 60 day mark. You keep trying for the important ones, especially in the days just before your trip, and the odds are in your favor to get most of them except maybe if you have a huge party with you.

Complaining about scooters getting on the bus before you is not a good look.

Food: if you choose QS only, you still have good options if you look for them. That shouldn’t be difficult for a big planner. Columbia Harbor House, Pandora, etc. etc.

But if you want better food, it’s your choice to go beyond QS or not. You make your own experience based on what’s important to you.

Yes, it’s more crowded now. That’s a cultural thing more than Disney’s fault. As new attractions open and age, that may even out.

Yes, things get reduced everywhere. It’s big business in America.

But bottom line: if I can make it work, so can you.

Well said. Haven’t seen you post in a bit.

Merry Christmas to You, Brian and Kylie!!

 

[Jae99]

Not to be pedantic, but reading and researching a vacation/trip *IS* planning. The level of reading and researching necessary to know the "tricks of the trade" for a Disney newcomer is indeed part of the excessive and obsessive planning for their trip.

I agree that it is planning. But, our days in the park were not regimented and strictly followed.

When we arrived in Orlando and noticed a cold temperatures predicted for the end of our trip we decided to use the warm days to enjoy some pool time. I cancelled our Tiffin’s RoL dining package for 3:00 pm the day of the reservation and decided to do stand-by for RoL and booked a late 8:25 reservation for Sanaa.

Not every restaurant will be booked. You can change plans and be able to find a TS restaurant to eat at any day of your vacation.

My best advice is to research touring plans to best maximize time used at rope drop. I read most of what Josh from easywdw and his touring recommendations.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Well said. Haven’t seen you post in a bit.

Merry Christmas to You, Brian and Kylie!!

Same to you and kiddo!

Retail at holiday time = not a lot of posting time!

But I do still read here a bit, most days. It’s the one thing that takes my head out of work.

 

[pax_65]

Once upon a time, this forum was full of positive comments and optimism for the future - and negative comments were extremely rare. The negative comments aren't so rare anymore. More and more Disney fans are returning from WDW and saying "It's not quite like it used to be."

This should tell us something.

 

[Thecorsi4]

Am I the only one that feels planning out the trip in detail is half the fun at WDW?

It's one of my favourite things to do. No, really. I love it.

I am with you, I absolutely love the planning, I even get a little sad when I feel the plan is complete and there is nothing left but wait for trip

 

[copcarguyp71]

Much like the OP I am no longer the demographic/type of guest that Disney is targeting. I've had to realize that and accept that despite my frothing fandom for all of my previous trips those days and experiences are done and gone.

Disney is striving for a brave new world of first timers who get there and spend, spend, spend to try and get the best experience and who are not aware of "the way things used to be". To those first timers this is the norm and they know no different so to them ":this is a Disney vacation". I have had to accept that the problems are mine and not Disney's. I am a dinosaur and unable to move past my nostalgia and memories of what was. Who knows...maybe it will all shake itself out and we are just experiencing ebbs and flows of the learning curve for the parks, of that I am eternally hopeful. In the meantime we (me and the fam) are lurkers watching from the shadows to see if any of what we loved in the past will return and draw us once again inexorably back to the parks. Hope springs eternal!

 

[MuteSuperstar]

Yes, things get reduced everywhere. It’s big business in America.

I certainly don't disagree with some of your other points but this one drives me nuts. I just don't get why people seem to be so blithely content with paying way more to get way less and shrugging it off as "hey that's just business". Speaking in general more than just about Disney, but this and the absurd crowds are the main reasons I don't go to WDW anymore.

 

[RustySpork]

I certainly don't disagree with some of your other points but this one drives me nuts. I just don't get why people seem to be so blithely content with paying way more to get way less and shrugging it off as "hey that's just business".

Hey, they're just sheep.

 

[21stamps]

I certainly don't disagree with some of your other points but this one drives me nuts. I just don't get why people seem to be so blithely content with paying way more to get way less and shrugging it off as "hey that's just business". Speaking in general more than just about Disney, but this and the absurd crowds are the main reasons I don't go to WDW anymore.

With the exception of lake view or theme park view at Poly or GF, most resorts on a Disney vacation are not much more than a lot of other vacations.. it’s even less in many scenarios.
Multi day tickets are a good value, and there is a ton of “included” entertainment.

Yes, it still costs money.. because they are a business, and always have been.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

Yes, it still costs money.. because they are a business, and always have been.

Yes they always have been. I'm not sure why there is a perception that anyone is disputing that TWDC, is, indeed, a business.

I realize a lot of people these days seem to have this bizarre aspirational pride in spending exorbitant amounts of money for things that used to be a much better value proposition, but I'm not one of them.

 

[21stamps]

Yes they always have been.
I realize a lot of people these days seem to have this bizarre aspirational pride in spending exorbitant amounts of money for things that used to be a much better value proposition, but I'm not one of them.

It’s not about pride, it’s realizing that entertainment prices have gone up drastically the past decade. You can spend the money, or you don’t have to... but it’s not just Disney who has raised their prices. Entertainment is expensive, we can’t change that, so no use crying about the past.

 

[Disneyworld_here_we_come]

It’s not about pride, it’s realizing that entertainment prices have gone up drastically the past decade. You can spend the money, or you don’t have to... but it’s not just Disney who has raised their prices. Entertainment is expensive, we can’t change that, so no use crying about the past.

Exactly! I keep seeing everyone say "but it used to be a good value " first value is subjective. Second you used to get a lot of things you don't now. There was a time when on one income a family could buy a home and car and travel and live a good life. In general this is much harder to come by now. I'm personally not going to live my life going, "it used to be better so I won't go". If I enjoy it, I'll go. If I don't, I will go somewhere else. Simple. One thing I learned with the passing of my father last year, is that life is short.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

It’s not about pride, it’s realizing that entertainment prices have gone up drastically the past decade. You can spend the money, or you don’t have to... but it’s not just Disney who has raised their prices. Entertainment is expensive, we can’t change that, so no use crying about the past.

You're right, but my problem is I just refuse to just shrug and accept the drastic increases in the sanguine way that many seem to now. When it starts feeling like I'm getting fleeced, I'm out. Especially when in my view, the quality of the experience seems to deteriorate a little more with every increase (not speaking only of WDW, but pretty much everything in general these days).

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Exactly! I keep seeing everyone say "but it used to be a good value " first value is subjective. Second you used to get a lot of things you don't now. There was a time when on one income a family could buy a home and car and travel and live a good life. In general this is much harder to come by now. I'm personally not going to live my life going, it used to be better so I won't go. If I enjoy it, I'll go. If I don't, I will go somewhere else. Simple. One thing I learned with the passing of my father last year, is that life is short.

So sorry for the loss of your father! This kind of puts things into perspective! Have a nice Holiday!

 

[Disneyworld_here_we_come]

So sorry for the loss of your father! This kind of puts things into perspective! Have a nice Holiday!

Thank you! Have a nice holiday also!

 

[21stamps]

You're right, but my problem is I just refuse to just shrug and accept the drastic increases in the sanguine way that many seem to now. When it starts feeling like I'm getting fleeced, I'm out. Especially when in my view, the quality of the experience seems to deteriorate a little more with every increase (not speaking only of WDW, but pretty much everything in general these days).

I agree with you’re underlying point here, it comes down to the value that we see.
I can spend $500 for a 3 hour excursion on a cruise, and not cringe.
Spending $500 on a video game console and a couple of video games, I had to force my hand to pay the salesperson. I hated every second of it.
I don’t see any value in video games.. my son on the other hand, it’s all he asked for Santa to bring him.

Value is so subjective. If you don’t see value, don’t buy something... unless Santa needs to have it on his sleigh

Exactly! I keep seeing everyone say "but it used to be a good value " first value is subjective. Second you used to get a lot of things you don't now. There was a time when on one income a family could buy a home and car and travel and live a good life. In general this is much harder to come by now. I'm personally not going to live my life going, "it used to be better so I won't go". If I enjoy it, I'll go. If I don't, I will go somewhere else. Simple. One thing I learned with the passing of my father last year, is that life is short.

So true. I’m sorry for your loss.

 

[larryz]

Once upon a time, this forum was full of positive comments and optimism for the future - and negative comments were extremely rare. The negative comments aren't so rare anymore. More and more Disney fans are returning from WDW and saying "It's not quite like it used to be."

This should tell us something.

I think it tells us at least two things:
1) this site's moderation will tolerate a reasonable amount of discussion about the good and the bad, as long as the discussions stay relatively civil*, and
2) people are genuinely disappointed by some aspects of their vacations at WDW.

That said, we're still die-hard Disney afficianados and will come here to flog our likes and dislikes ad inifinitum.

*And thanks for that, by the way!