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A critical look at Epcot
- Thread starter YozhikRoth
- Start date
brb1006
Well-Known Member
And for some longtime Epcot fans, when Figment became meetable again sometime from 2004 - 2006 not alot of them were fond of his new design aka "Figzilla".Original layout of the ride compared to today:
Figment used to meet along with Dreamfinder as a puppet from 1983 until both slowly stopped meeting guests sometime between 1995 - 1997.
Both did show up at D23 years ago to the surprise of guests.
Adam Snider
Well-Known Member
Figment is still probably one of my favorites and really i only like the song from the ride
Retroman40
Well-Known Member
I'm convinced the only people who ride UoE are first timers, nostalgia buffs, people who want to get out of the heat or people who need a nap. I often fit the final three! I'd love to see Jamie Lee Curt's reprise her role as Dr. Judy Peterson only this time she is Ellen's guide through a updated ride that touches on things like climate change and fracking.
Club Cooloholic
Well-Known Member
Well there are occasional shortages in the fridge for the Coral Reef restaurant, and you have to meet customer demands....
morningstar
Well-Known Member
There seem to be two divergent approaches to this.
1. Replace remaining lame attractions like Ellen, Imagination, and Innovations with ... something good: thrill rides, ideally based on movie franchises, or shops or characters. Things that are popular at other Disney parks, but with no focused vision for what Epcot is about.
2. Bring those lame attractions back to their former glory. Bring back Dreamfinder. Bulldoze the vomit comet and rebuild Horizons.
Neither of these things will really work. #1 will result in, at best, a clone of Tomorrowland, a land based on science fiction instead of science. At worst it will leave a bunch of rides without a relevant theme, when the movies they're based on don't age well. It may be a park that teenagers will go to to ride thrill after thrill, but it won't appeal to adults and young kids. It won't be a family park as Walt intended.
#2 will please nostalgics, and I'm one, but I'm not sure people seeing it for the first time today would connect with the original Horizons. Epcot needs to get back to the idea of inspiring people about the future with science and technology that is possible but not yet realized or not yet mainstream. Inspiring is the key word, not thrilling or entertaining. An attraction should have those too, but without inspiration, an attraction at Epcot is hollow. But we should not just go back to the particular vision of the future that we had in the 1980s. We need to figure out a positive vision that makes sense now, and plan for changes as that vision becomes outdated.
I think Future World probably needs a comprehensive plan to replace everything that's there now, not all at once, but one at a time working toward a cohesive theme. We shouldn't limit ourselves to improving individual pavilions within their existing themes. If a theme is no longer the most relevant, change it.
If it will get people behind the idea, I don't mind retheming it as Stark Expo, as long as the technology message remains realistic and not fantastical. I don't want to see anything powered by tesseract.
Since I think there should be a major rethink, I'm just going to say what is not working about the pavilions, not how they should be fixed.
Spaceship Earth - the one pavilion that doesn't need and shouldn't have major changes. It's a history lesson, and history doesn't change, it just gets added to. The descent portion can be planned for frequent updates, covering communication innovations since the ride was originally built. For now, things like the Internet, mobile phones, and Twitter. In the future, who knows?
Energy - this was always a little weak on theme. What do dinosaurs have to do with energy? Okay, I guess I can see it, but it's a stretch. It was originally a very inspiring show, though, even if it mostly inspired you to be a geologist, not to invent alternative energy. The addition of Ellen makes it too comical to be inspiring. Just do something completely different with this space.
Mission: Space - Mars just isn't quite mysterious enough. This could be rethemed with a new mission, based on real science but with more stretching of the imagination, like a trip to a planet around another star.
Test Track - The problem is, how stuff's made is just not that exciting a subject. I'm not sure a car-oriented attraction really has a place in today's vision of the future, unless it focuses on alternative fuel vehicles. Or it can take on the broader subject of transportation in general, and how we can build a system of transportation and lifestyles that have less impact while still making it "fun to be free".
Innoventions - Right now this is like a corporate promotion fair. This needs to get back to something more like it was, with exhibits sponsored by real innovative companies. (What is an insurance company doing here? IBM is pretty innovative, but show off some of your AI technology that's winning at Chess and Jeopardy, not some lame trivia display.)
Seas - pretty good as is. You can't go too wrong with a giant aquarium. Needs minor updates of exhibits over time, that's all.
The Land - Soarin' kind of distracts from what was the original message: how the land can provide for our needs without us impacting it negatively. I could see how Soarin' could connect to this message, by showing us why the land is worth protecting. It needs a pre-show or post-show to drive home that message. LwtL seems outdated. I don't think hydroponics is really the hot topic in agriculture these days. I think this just needs to be replaced with a new flagship attraction.
Imagination - This one can't be drastically overhauled. Imagination is the "heart" of innovation. Besides, Figment is too beloved to go. Build a new attraction with Figment, and fix the writing for the character so his mischief is the result of his curiosity, not brattiness.
1. Replace remaining lame attractions like Ellen, Imagination, and Innovations with ... something good: thrill rides, ideally based on movie franchises, or shops or characters. Things that are popular at other Disney parks, but with no focused vision for what Epcot is about.
2. Bring those lame attractions back to their former glory. Bring back Dreamfinder. Bulldoze the vomit comet and rebuild Horizons.
Neither of these things will really work. #1 will result in, at best, a clone of Tomorrowland, a land based on science fiction instead of science. At worst it will leave a bunch of rides without a relevant theme, when the movies they're based on don't age well. It may be a park that teenagers will go to to ride thrill after thrill, but it won't appeal to adults and young kids. It won't be a family park as Walt intended.
#2 will please nostalgics, and I'm one, but I'm not sure people seeing it for the first time today would connect with the original Horizons. Epcot needs to get back to the idea of inspiring people about the future with science and technology that is possible but not yet realized or not yet mainstream. Inspiring is the key word, not thrilling or entertaining. An attraction should have those too, but without inspiration, an attraction at Epcot is hollow. But we should not just go back to the particular vision of the future that we had in the 1980s. We need to figure out a positive vision that makes sense now, and plan for changes as that vision becomes outdated.
I think Future World probably needs a comprehensive plan to replace everything that's there now, not all at once, but one at a time working toward a cohesive theme. We shouldn't limit ourselves to improving individual pavilions within their existing themes. If a theme is no longer the most relevant, change it.
If it will get people behind the idea, I don't mind retheming it as Stark Expo, as long as the technology message remains realistic and not fantastical. I don't want to see anything powered by tesseract.
Since I think there should be a major rethink, I'm just going to say what is not working about the pavilions, not how they should be fixed.
Spaceship Earth - the one pavilion that doesn't need and shouldn't have major changes. It's a history lesson, and history doesn't change, it just gets added to. The descent portion can be planned for frequent updates, covering communication innovations since the ride was originally built. For now, things like the Internet, mobile phones, and Twitter. In the future, who knows?
Energy - this was always a little weak on theme. What do dinosaurs have to do with energy? Okay, I guess I can see it, but it's a stretch. It was originally a very inspiring show, though, even if it mostly inspired you to be a geologist, not to invent alternative energy. The addition of Ellen makes it too comical to be inspiring. Just do something completely different with this space.
Mission: Space - Mars just isn't quite mysterious enough. This could be rethemed with a new mission, based on real science but with more stretching of the imagination, like a trip to a planet around another star.
Test Track - The problem is, how stuff's made is just not that exciting a subject. I'm not sure a car-oriented attraction really has a place in today's vision of the future, unless it focuses on alternative fuel vehicles. Or it can take on the broader subject of transportation in general, and how we can build a system of transportation and lifestyles that have less impact while still making it "fun to be free".
Innoventions - Right now this is like a corporate promotion fair. This needs to get back to something more like it was, with exhibits sponsored by real innovative companies. (What is an insurance company doing here? IBM is pretty innovative, but show off some of your AI technology that's winning at Chess and Jeopardy, not some lame trivia display.)
Seas - pretty good as is. You can't go too wrong with a giant aquarium. Needs minor updates of exhibits over time, that's all.
The Land - Soarin' kind of distracts from what was the original message: how the land can provide for our needs without us impacting it negatively. I could see how Soarin' could connect to this message, by showing us why the land is worth protecting. It needs a pre-show or post-show to drive home that message. LwtL seems outdated. I don't think hydroponics is really the hot topic in agriculture these days. I think this just needs to be replaced with a new flagship attraction.
Imagination - This one can't be drastically overhauled. Imagination is the "heart" of innovation. Besides, Figment is too beloved to go. Build a new attraction with Figment, and fix the writing for the character so his mischief is the result of his curiosity, not brattiness.
JohnHangen
Active Member
It's a great nap ride. Saved my day more than once
Club Cooloholic
Well-Known Member
I figured it out. The best refurb for this ride. Throw away the ideas of new film footage and AAs, just put in plush seating with the ability to recline. Movie theaters are getting more comfy why not ellens ride? Coukd start a whole new trend in theme parks. Just make sure we can buckle the kids in place so we don't have to worry about them while catching zzs. Maybe we can even get drink service.
copcarguyp71
Well-Known Member
1 - Get rid of the graveyard
2 - Make the descent of SSE more of what it used to be instead of the touchscreen distraction
3 - Scrap Ellen/Bill (I enjoy Bill but it is dated and the relevance is past it's time) entirely and keep the dinosaurs while also adding in alternative energy as well.
4 - The Land...I know I am the minority but I've always felt the main atrium was a little too sterile and didn't convey a feeling of the theme of the pavilion...It just always feels like I walked into a corporate cafeteria. Update Circle of Life or try something new with that space since Soarin is already a movie of sorts as well.
5 - Wonders of Life....seriously Disney nobody is buying "special events"...you can do better
6 - TT2.0...I really like it and the reboot was refreshing
7 - MS...randomized missions of some sort would be nice but again a solid attraction
8 - Imagination...would be nice to see some more effort but it is a kids based attraction and kids always seem to like it so...take it for what it is.
9 - Innoventions... even if Disney does not get any actual sponsorship money how about giving a chunk of it to Apple since the Jobs family are major stockholders and let them have at it...I liked the future house or whatever it was called and I think a portion of Innoventions should be maintained in the vein of a Worlds Fair technology based showcase...not everything has to be immersive and over the top for me. Having character meet n greet with the queue inside is AOK and allows parents a break.
10 - THIS ONE IS HUGE FOR ME....do something with empty unused spaces! I find it unbelievable that Odyssey, WOL, and the upstairs of Imagination are totally closed off and Disney pretends like they don't exist. Perhaps they do not for the more recent park goers but those of us who have been longtime Disneyphiles know better and with rising ticket prices those of us in the know realize our experience has been cut while our pockets are plundered.
World Showcase is honestly AOK just as it is for me. I've never strolled around and thought to myself "they could have done better". Maybe some improved dining but that could be said of all the parks since they started giving away the dining plan.
2 - Make the descent of SSE more of what it used to be instead of the touchscreen distraction
3 - Scrap Ellen/Bill (I enjoy Bill but it is dated and the relevance is past it's time) entirely and keep the dinosaurs while also adding in alternative energy as well.
4 - The Land...I know I am the minority but I've always felt the main atrium was a little too sterile and didn't convey a feeling of the theme of the pavilion...It just always feels like I walked into a corporate cafeteria. Update Circle of Life or try something new with that space since Soarin is already a movie of sorts as well.
5 - Wonders of Life....seriously Disney nobody is buying "special events"...you can do better
6 - TT2.0...I really like it and the reboot was refreshing
7 - MS...randomized missions of some sort would be nice but again a solid attraction
8 - Imagination...would be nice to see some more effort but it is a kids based attraction and kids always seem to like it so...take it for what it is.
9 - Innoventions... even if Disney does not get any actual sponsorship money how about giving a chunk of it to Apple since the Jobs family are major stockholders and let them have at it...I liked the future house or whatever it was called and I think a portion of Innoventions should be maintained in the vein of a Worlds Fair technology based showcase...not everything has to be immersive and over the top for me. Having character meet n greet with the queue inside is AOK and allows parents a break.
10 - THIS ONE IS HUGE FOR ME....do something with empty unused spaces! I find it unbelievable that Odyssey, WOL, and the upstairs of Imagination are totally closed off and Disney pretends like they don't exist. Perhaps they do not for the more recent park goers but those of us who have been longtime Disneyphiles know better and with rising ticket prices those of us in the know realize our experience has been cut while our pockets are plundered.
World Showcase is honestly AOK just as it is for me. I've never strolled around and thought to myself "they could have done better". Maybe some improved dining but that could be said of all the parks since they started giving away the dining plan.
morningstar
Well-Known Member
I have a character tie in if Disney can get the rights: Shaun the Sheep's Sheep-Counting Spectacular.
morningstar
Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly it used to be somewhat better. It had a more open feeling and reminded you of being under the big sky on the Great Plains. But they added more seating without regard for how it impacted the feeling of the place. Seems to be part of the problem: new things are designed by Imagineers, changes are designed by bean-counters.
Cowboy Steve
Well-Known Member
Can't really state it much better than these 2 quotes. Future World in EPCOT has definitely strayed from the original concept. They need to get back to that original concept of showcasing up and coming technology and innovations. To be honest, I think they have just gotten lazy with this as it would take some effort to keep interesting and fresh displays/interactions.
Imagination has been covered ad nausea and I can't really add any additional insight.
Energy - needs an overhaul. Big time.
I will have to really look at EPCOT when I'm there in December. It will have been 2 years since my last trip...
Oriolesmagic
Well-Known Member
I have some thoughts that a probably pretty controversial when it comes to rebuilding Epcot. Spoiler: It involves replacing It's a Small World with an E-ticket Tangled boat ride and Carousel of Progress gets removed for a larger Tomorrowland transformation. Anyways, onto EPCOT...
World Showcase - I think the World Showcase is largely in good shape. Eventually, you'd like to see a new country added. South America is not represented, perhaps Peru would be an intriguing fit? Venezuela or Brazil would be perfect if not for the turmoil in those respective countries right now.
Thoughts on the Future World changes?
- Spaceship Earth - New Narration featuring Max Von Sydow, descent upgraded with set-pieces showing the future of communication.
- The Seas - Minimal updates for Finding Dory, additional marine life
- The Land - I'd like to see the Soarin' queue get an overhaul but that seems unlikely. Circle of Life film updated.
- Imagination - Pixar Film festival replaced by Inside Out-themed Cranium Command-esque show. Figment redesigned completely to keep more in line with the original attraction. Upstairs converted to character dining experience where the characters are some of the finest visionaries throughout history. (Da Vinci, Einstein, Franklin, etc.)
- Innoventions - An area filled with interactive family games and maybe even some small-scale live intelligence based game shows.
- Mission Space - Update screens to 4K and create three new ride videos for variety.
- Test Track - Meh.
- Odyssey - Literally just anything else
- Universe of Energy - Replaced by the classic yet retouched It's a Small World.
- Wonders of Life - An updated Carousel of Progress, a Horizons-inspired dark ride showcasing the future and an updated Monsanto House of the Future make up a completely reimagined pavilion dedicated to the future whilst paying homage to the past.
World Showcase - I think the World Showcase is largely in good shape. Eventually, you'd like to see a new country added. South America is not represented, perhaps Peru would be an intriguing fit? Venezuela or Brazil would be perfect if not for the turmoil in those respective countries right now.
Thoughts on the Future World changes?
IanDLBZF
Well-Known Member
For me, I would see the following:
Future World
Future World
- Spaceship Earth - I would add a finale, encompassing the future of technology
- The Seas - No Updates Recommended, only minor improvements
- The Land - Update Circle of Life, other than that no further action
- Universe of Energy - I would refurbish and replace with an updated version, featuring Ellen as the narrator, and an updated version of the original theme song "Energy You Make The World Go Round" as sung by Queen Latifah
- Mission Space - Minor upgrades, randomized missions
- Test Track - No upgrades needed at this time
- Imagination - Revitalize second floor of ImageWorks, update Figment to be more like the original attraction. Taking on @Oriolesmagic recommendations on the Pixar Short Film Festival
- Wonders of Life - Revitalize, perhaps with an updated version of Body Wars and Cranium Command
- Innoventions - Once again, taking the recommendations @Oriolesmagic
- Odyssey - I would convert that into a dining around the world experience, similar to Ohana and Skipper Canteen
- I would consider adding a new pavilion, such as South Korea and/or Brazil, other than that no other changes are really recommended.
Cowboy Steve
Well-Known Member
4K is really over rated for close up small screen applications. I don't know that I have seen any 4k screens smaller than 50"... but then again I haven't really been looking for one lol! Not sure how the resolution translates on smaller screens... but for home use, if you sit approx 10 feet from your TV, you would need a 70" 4K TV or larger for the human eye to notice the difference over 1080p. But the ride could definitely use a refresh! I like the idea of 3 or 4 random missions!
blueboxdoctor
Well-Known Member
Imagination can get an Inside Out remake. I don't want a crazy thrill ride, mainly because I just don't like them.
Innoventions has potential, don't make it a giant gift shop/meet and greet, they can actually do something with it to make it relevant again. Possibly get a bunch of sponsors to set up interactive exhibits (Sony, Apple, Microsoft, etc...). Show how their technology can be applied. Show off the evolution of their technology or show prototypes. Basically, make it like a kind of modern day World's Fair.
Universe of Energy really is just sort of there, I barely see people go on it. The whole thing is out dated.
It's a shame, there's a lot of potential for Future World, but currently it just kind of exists.
Innoventions has potential, don't make it a giant gift shop/meet and greet, they can actually do something with it to make it relevant again. Possibly get a bunch of sponsors to set up interactive exhibits (Sony, Apple, Microsoft, etc...). Show how their technology can be applied. Show off the evolution of their technology or show prototypes. Basically, make it like a kind of modern day World's Fair.
Universe of Energy really is just sort of there, I barely see people go on it. The whole thing is out dated.
It's a shame, there's a lot of potential for Future World, but currently it just kind of exists.
Oriolesmagic
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I really just used 4K as a way of saying that the screens need to be upgraded to a higher resolution. I'm sure Disney would do whatever's best. The Orlando theme parks know their screens!