A bit of a whoops with Wishes tonight

[Blizz]

I must say having worked a lighting console for about 6 years now I know all the issues you can have with a console and the system that runs them and I must say I am amazed how flawless Disney's shows run on a daily basis.

The system most likly uses a multitrack audio playback (one layer being the music you hear and one layer being a MIDI click track to trigger the MIDI/SMPTE Timecode in the lighting console). That would explain for the malfuntion with the castle and main street lighting, however that same click track prob. also run the fireworks firing system, so they must have a backup timecode generator runnning the fireworks but not one for the lighting control system.

They must be using products from High End Systems (like the Whole Hog 2 or 3) because there is no way it could always be that flawless if they were running something from ETC (they dont offer the same quality that HES offers in their timecode and cue tracking) //Yea... I'm a lighting geek...

 

[JMagicFink]

Omg!!!!!

Your awesome!!!! I would totally have to agree with the Hogs kicking ETC butt! Glad to know there is another lighting board op on here!
Ok, back to your original forum board posting about wishes malfunctioning.
Sorry for the interruption.
-Jim

 

[Blizz]

Haha, yeah I hate having to use an ETC console when I have to control something like a Vari*Lite fixture or pretty much any automated fixture. It just doesnt program and track as nice as a Hog.

But yeah... I know that with Illuminations it runs the way I discribed in my first post so I would guess WDW Entertainment set up Wishes the same.

 

[MagliteL13]

I wonder if the music isn't on its own media server. It'd definetly make sense to have a Hog with a Catalyst. And everything kinda seems to lean that way with Multitrack audio and the multiple things that have to be in sync with each other. Maybe the server crashed?

On a side note, we had a final dress for an opera that's pretty much controlled by SMPTE (minus scenery) the same night the Wishes crash and our server crashed (Medialon). Twas not fun having to run the show manually.

And Boo, after you're done with your lovely vacation, if it's at all possible I too would be interested in learning what happened.

 

[Blizz]

I wonder if the music isn't on its own media server. It'd definetly make sense to have a Hog with a Catalyst. And everything kinda seems to lean that way with Multitrack audio and the multiple things that have to be in sync with each other. Maybe the server crashed?

On a side note, we had a final dress for an opera that's pretty much controlled by SMPTE (minus scenery) the same night the Wishes crash and our server crashed (Medialon). Twas not fun having to run the show manually.

And Boo, after you're done with your lovely vacation, if it's at all possible I too would be interested in learning what happened.

I doubt that Illuminations or Wishes is running Catalyst because most of their fixtures are HES Studio Colors, Studio Spots, and Cyberlights. None of which require digital imaging control. Illuminations and Wishes were also devloped just prior to the release of Catalyst and the new digital imagining fixtures (would be awesome if they had a few of the DL.2's or DL.1's). However they could be using something along the lines of MEDIALON Manager to run the show. Had that crashed though it would have disrupted the pyro effects so thats why it leads me to think it was not their control server and why I think they must be using a console in lieu of a networked type appliance like the Manager. I'm sure their dimmers were fine since the audio went out of sync along with the lights, therefore I can only see it as a problem within the timecode generator (i.e. audio playback device {could be a Medialon Audio Server or something as simple as a Mackie digital multi-track recorder/player}).

 

[mudinferno]

LOL

Hmmmm, SMPTE issue?

Proberly right man

 

[sillyspook13]

This sounds like the opposite of the problem I saw one night last year.....

From the Blue Fairy to through the end the only fireworks were those shot off from the rooftops!

 

[WDWCP]

I wonder if the music isn't on its own media server. It'd definetly make sense to have a Hog with a Catalyst. And everything kinda seems to lean that way with Multitrack audio and the multiple things that have to be in sync with each other. Maybe the server crashed?

On a side note, we had a final dress for an opera that's pretty much controlled by SMPTE (minus scenery) the same night the Wishes crash and our server crashed (Medialon). Twas not fun having to run the show manually.

And Boo, after you're done with your lovely vacation, if it's at all possible I too would be interested in learning what happened.

Hmm... Can I get a HOG with some eggs on the side?

:animwink:

 

[ditzeechick02]

Scott (wdwscottieboy) my boyfriend was there last night when Wishes had a problem. I told him to call me when Wishes was going on so I could hear the music. He called, and was like do you hear it.. and I was like um I hear the fireworks and that's it. And then, he told me~! LOL. What a shame. He said "at least you can't hear in pictures" lol all the people's pics will turn out just fine, but I feel really bad for people who have never seen it before!

 

[tirian]

This was never true. There was no tag planned for Disneyland's 50th. Where di you hear this from? As for the other problems... Thank goodness I'm on vacation. :sohappy:

I'm a CM, and the tag was promised. Based on everything I heard, it was basically just going to be some sort of announcement. Let me explain...

Last night, by the time Spectromagic got to Liberty Square, its timing was incorrect. By the time the parade got to Frontierland, it was noticeably wrong. The parade's intro never played. The first two floats were about 10-20 feet from each other--the spinning light people and the Mickey float were extremely close--and about one and a half minutes passed before anything else came down the street. Then the Mickey float stopped for a while, making room for the first float and the spinning men. Later, the Little Mermaid music started playing about 3/4 through the Sleeping Beauty forest sequence; Meriweather was still in front of me with Caribbean music! This is odd, because I KNOW that the floats initiate their own music. Ursula basically bolted through the route; she stopped and began to say something, but was cut short when the first Little Mermaid float was about ten feet away from her! The spinning fish that follow King Triton remained for another minute with absolutely no soundtrack. Yep, there was just silence and spinning fish. The Night on Bald Mountain float wasn't functioning, and was replaced with the Big Bad Wolf, who walked around and put his hands up during the musical crescendos.

Needless to say, Entertainment was furious. Characters began complaining as soon as they left the floats. I left the MK about 10:30 last night, and the Spectro/Wishes fiasco was what everyone talked about on the bus trip back to the cast parking lot.

...and here's where it gets really interesting. The characters were told that everything was rushed to make time for a "special salute to Disneyland." Maybe that wasn't true; perhaps managers said that to appease the angry CMs. Nevertheless, last night (the 17th), the "special salute" was regarded as an actual event.

 

[se8472]

I was pondering where the music went since I only got to see the tail end of the show. But I knew it so well I just sang it in my head.

 

[Legacy]

They must be using products from High End Systems (like the Whole Hog 2 or 3) because there is no way it could always be that flawless if they were running something from ETC (they dont offer the same quality that HES offers in their timecode and cue tracking) //Yea... I'm a lighting geek...

I wouldn't be surprised if they were using a Hog 3. A GrandMA wouldn't surprise me either, simple because they would want it to be top of the line. I have to admit though, the timecode simulation available on Hogs is a major life-saver.

 

[Blizz]

Although the Grand MA from MA lighting is the BMW of lighting boards (to my knowledge they dont own a Grand MA), Disney uses HES Hog's and ETC Obsession consoles. They also spend millions a year in new HES automated fixtures, Vari*Lite automated fixtures, and ETC Source Fours of all types. The main reason they dont use ETC controls more is because when they were planning Illuminations, ETC did not really offer any SMPTE support on the scale they needed, thus they turned to Flying Pig Systems and Lightwave Research (a.k.a. - High End Systems) because they could support the dreams disney had. However since then they have used ETC consoles in parts of the park, but I believe they are used more for the stage shows. While I am not a fan of using an ETC console if I had to pick one to use it would be the Obsession so at least they didnt cheap out when shopping for new controls.

 

[boo52]

In short here are some facts.
The castle lighting is run off of a Wholehog 2. It runs off of SMPTE timecode. The hard drive that runs the music and timecode crashed causeing the problems you saw last night. They were not able to have the system rebooted in a timely manner. The descision was to keep firing the show. The fireworks computer locks the timecode on after 30 seconds into the show, so if something glitches, it continues to fire if you choose to continue. As for the tag, there was never a tag planned. The CM's were misinformed.

 

[Blizz]

Any idea what they are using to fire the show?

 

[MagliteL13]

I doubt that Illuminations or Wishes is running Catalyst because most of their fixtures are HES Studio Colors, Studio Spots, and Cyberlights. None of which require digital imaging control. Illuminations and Wishes were also devloped just prior to the release of Catalyst and the new digital imagining fixtures (would be awesome if they had a few of the DL.2's or DL.1's). However they could be using something along the lines of MEDIALON Manager to run the show. Had that crashed though it would have disrupted the pyro effects so thats why it leads me to think it was not their control server and why I think they must be using a console in lieu of a networked type appliance like the Manager. I'm sure their dimmers were fine since the audio went out of sync along with the lights, therefore I can only see it as a problem within the timecode generator (i.e. audio playback device {could be a Medialon Audio Server or something as simple as a Mackie digital multi-track recorder/player}).

I never thought of the Catalyst release dates. The way Medialon can be configured is so incredibly flexible that even if it the control manager crashes, the other servers can go ahead and playback manually or with a backup. That's what happened to me at the opera the other night. Using Catalyst just for audio is also a big waste. Medialon is such a cool piece of software that can pretty much do just about anything you want it to do relating to control. Would they really need something like the Hog 3 or GrandMA for just playback though? I mean, those are geared much more towards live situations that playback. What about something like the ETC Expression 3 Lighting Playback Controller tied in with a Medialon server for audio playback and show control and then the FireOne system for pyro?

As for the lights, wouldn't they have to be sent more information to be turned off? Like when you kill a console without taking channels down--the instruments still stay on. So if something crashed, wouldn't another series of messages have to be sent telling them to douse?

 

[BadTigger]

I wonder if they had a "blue screen of death"??

 

[Blizz]

I never thought of the Catalyst release dates. The way Medialon can be configured is so incredibly flexible that even if it the control manager crashes, the other servers can go ahead and playback manually or with a backup. That's what happened to me at the opera the other night. Using Catalyst just for audio is also a big waste. Medialon is such a cool piece of software that can pretty much do just about anything you want it to do relating to control. Would they really need something like the Hog 3 or GrandMA for just playback though? I mean, those are geared much more towards live situations that playback. What about something like the ETC Expression 3 Lighting Playback Controller tied in with a Medialon server for audio playback and show control and then the FireOne system for pyro?

I have not had the chance to use anything from Medialon yet but from the information I have read about it, it does look like a nice system to work with. It does seem easier to run it with the Manager that they offer since you can track all show cues from one system. I think they use a more hands on approach because it is a more tried and true method. Plus with a Hog you can also trigger other SMPTE events like chain motors, firing systems, etc...
The reasons to use a Hog or MA over an Expression with Enphasis is because the software in the Hog and MA flows smoother and as Legacy mentioned the Hog's TC simulation allows for much easier programming and control.

As for the lights, wouldn't they have to be sent more information to be turned off? Like when you kill a console without taking channels down--the instruments still stay on. So if something crashed, wouldn't another series of messages have to be sent telling them to douse?

The instruments will only stay on if they have on-board dimmers. In the theatre I work in, the desk channels will remain on until i kill the console while my VL1000TSD's onboard dimmer still holds that last cue therefor it keeps acting as if the console never shut off. So I would guess that the Main Street lighting is simple desk channel conventional fixtures being run off of ETC Sensor dimmers. Or the board could have stopped at a part of the show with all of Main Street at 0%. The board itself didn't crash the timecode simply got messed up there for messing up the tracking in the console.

 

[imamouse]

In short here are some facts.
The castle lighting is run off of a Wholehog 2. It runs off of SMPTE timecode. The hard drive that runs the music and timecode crashed causeing the problems you saw last night. They were not able to have the system rebooted in a timely manner. The descision was to keep firing the show. The fireworks computer locks the timecode on after 30 seconds into the show, so if something glitches, it continues to fire if you choose to continue. As for the tag, there was never a tag planned. The CM's were misinformed.

Thanks, Boo! What surprises me is that there does not appear to be a real time load balance between a main and back-up server with identical hard drivers, programming, etc. If there were, then when one server component (ex: hard drive), goes bang, the other carries the entire load for the remaining duration of the show. Unless I am applying internet logic inappropriately here?

 

[boo52]

Any idea what they are using to fire the show?

2 - FireOne computer firing systems. One for the rooftops and one for the Main firing site.

Thanks, Boo! What surprises me is that there does not appear to be a real time load balance between a main and back-up server with identical hard drivers, programming, etc. If there were, then when one server component (ex: hard drive), goes bang, the other carries the entire load for the remaining duration of the show. Unless I am applying internet logic inappropriately here?

This is the way that it is suppose to happen, but didn't. Not sure why.