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News Disney Confirms Muppets Take Over Rock 'n' Roller Coaster at Hollywood Studios
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
LSLS
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure comparing Haunted Mansion or even Tianna to Cosmic Rewind/new Muppets coaster is really fair though. A slower moving ride would lend itself to telling much more of a story than one where you are flying around all over the place at all times. I think the more intense stuff, you lose a lot of the story going on during the ride. Sure, you can get a general feel for what happened during it, and that doesn't really take away from the ride, but if you want to toute the story being told, I think it needs to be simpler when there is loud background music, turns and spins at high speeds.
Basil of Baker Street
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Slow ride needs a good story. A roller coaster does not.
Bill Cipher
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I really hate to continue to derail this thread but I must agree that the linear narrative on Cosmic Rewind is messy. I am not some hater who hasn't been to the parks in years, and I am not saying I don't understand the narrative as presented in the queue, preshows, onboard audio, and physical attraction. I ride Guardians frequently and I understand what it is attempting to deliver narratively, but that narrative is messy and it took multiple takes to fully soak in.
The first preshow frequently and deliberately establishes that the Cosmic Generator can be used to travel through different points in space, effectively teleportation. Fine. Then why is it that when the Celestial steals the Cosmic Generator in the second preshow, it can now be used as a time travel device? The characters are seeing him for the first time but somehow immediately infer that the jump point he creates has time travel properties, and that it is being used to travel back to a time before the known universe existed, no less. What? How could they possibly know that? And then the Celestial immediately confirms their suspicions without another thought.
Even further, the reason we as guests must travel through the jump point is that it is closing and we need to "keep track" of the Celestial until the Guardians arrive and Nova Corp regain power. But the moment we dispatch from the ship and enter the jump point, the Guardians immediately follow in behind us. I suppose it would make for a boring ride if we had to wait around for the Guardians to show up, but the fact that they were able to just follow in right with us makes our mission feel a little contrived.
In terms of actual on-ride scenes, the mechanic of time travel is being used as a justification to show elements of the Big Bang and creation of our galaxy. However, this idea of a whirlwind tour of the formation of the galaxy is at odds with the battle taking place, so the only elements of it we see are the bang itself in the reverse launch, a static model of the Milky Way, a static model of Earth's moon, and a static model of Earth. Admittedly, the reverse launch is a really strong element and an effective way of using the ride system to convey a signature narrative moment, but other than that the time travel mechanic does not get much mileage.
If I were to script-doctor/armchair imagineer Cosmic Rewind, I think I would honestly remove the time travel mechanic because it's clearly only present as a remnant of when the ride entered development as a Big Bang coaster before receiving an attached IP. Letting distinct scenes form that actually focus on the heroes using their unique abilities on a large enemy would be effective in terms of making a ride that is representative of its IP. Of course, this would remove the ride's already thin excuse of being edutainment and its justification for existing in Epcot, but many would argue that either; A: the ride is so thinly related to education it does not belong in Epcot to begin with, or B: the education ideals of Epcot are so dead that it's irrelevant for Cosmic Rewind to include them, so long as it is vaguely futuristic enough to fit World Discovery. Just let the time traveling Big Bang launch coaster be its own idea that can fully realize that one unique identity (not that such an attraction could possibly be built under current leadership).
Additionally, the Guardians not actually being physically present during the queue and preshows absolutely reeks of budget issues. Narratively, it would make sense for Peter Quill (and by extension the rest of the team) to be present at the opening of the Wonders of Xandar exhibit considering he was personally involved in the selection of the location. And being human, he also acts as a liaison between humanity and Xandarians. The only reason the story has them call in remotely is because the budget did not allow for animatronic figures of the characters.
If you've been paying attention you might say, "Ah! But if the Guardians are physically present for the preshow then they would have no need for the guests to keep track of the Celestial, and we would lose our narrative justification for guests to be on the mission." Which brings me to what I think is another huge missed opportunity with the ride's narrative. Our justification for joining the mission should have been to help the Guardians fight the Celestial with the Nova Corp's golden laser-net technology seen in the first film (and at numerous points in the queue and ride). The technology only works if you have an excess of ships to do it, and the Nova Corps fleet is currently without power. If our Starjumper ride vehicles were also given this ability, not only would it be a really convincing and exciting justification to join the mission, but it could also afford the opportunity to have a unique lighting package on the ride vehicles, creating a bespoke effect. I'm imagining not just the different cars in each train interacting with each other, but potentially even multiple trains at the same time being visible to each other in the show building. It could create that extra layer of kinetics found in a ride like Indy where you see multiple jeeps dodging around the temple.
At the end of the day I could dream of unlimited nitpicks for this ride, but ultimately the story isn't even my biggest issue (surprise, its the exterior of the show building). Cosmic Rewind is still a good ride, maybe even a great ride, but its identity is one of incredibly apparent circumstance. The same is true of Mission Breakout which makes this even more interesting. These rides might seem burdened by the IP mandate, existing ride concepts, and mismanaged budgets but those limitations brought forth incredibly distinct narratives that might have never been imagined if not for those limitations. It almost makes me less interested in whether Cosmic Rewind's story is "good" or "bad" because those are arbitrary and consider no weight of the context for how it ended up being created. But if you want to get that deep I suppose the same could be said for many attractions and other media in general. Regardless, Cosmic Rewind is certainly an interesting case.
The first preshow frequently and deliberately establishes that the Cosmic Generator can be used to travel through different points in space, effectively teleportation. Fine. Then why is it that when the Celestial steals the Cosmic Generator in the second preshow, it can now be used as a time travel device? The characters are seeing him for the first time but somehow immediately infer that the jump point he creates has time travel properties, and that it is being used to travel back to a time before the known universe existed, no less. What? How could they possibly know that? And then the Celestial immediately confirms their suspicions without another thought.
Even further, the reason we as guests must travel through the jump point is that it is closing and we need to "keep track" of the Celestial until the Guardians arrive and Nova Corp regain power. But the moment we dispatch from the ship and enter the jump point, the Guardians immediately follow in behind us. I suppose it would make for a boring ride if we had to wait around for the Guardians to show up, but the fact that they were able to just follow in right with us makes our mission feel a little contrived.
In terms of actual on-ride scenes, the mechanic of time travel is being used as a justification to show elements of the Big Bang and creation of our galaxy. However, this idea of a whirlwind tour of the formation of the galaxy is at odds with the battle taking place, so the only elements of it we see are the bang itself in the reverse launch, a static model of the Milky Way, a static model of Earth's moon, and a static model of Earth. Admittedly, the reverse launch is a really strong element and an effective way of using the ride system to convey a signature narrative moment, but other than that the time travel mechanic does not get much mileage.
If I were to script-doctor/armchair imagineer Cosmic Rewind, I think I would honestly remove the time travel mechanic because it's clearly only present as a remnant of when the ride entered development as a Big Bang coaster before receiving an attached IP. Letting distinct scenes form that actually focus on the heroes using their unique abilities on a large enemy would be effective in terms of making a ride that is representative of its IP. Of course, this would remove the ride's already thin excuse of being edutainment and its justification for existing in Epcot, but many would argue that either; A: the ride is so thinly related to education it does not belong in Epcot to begin with, or B: the education ideals of Epcot are so dead that it's irrelevant for Cosmic Rewind to include them, so long as it is vaguely futuristic enough to fit World Discovery. Just let the time traveling Big Bang launch coaster be its own idea that can fully realize that one unique identity (not that such an attraction could possibly be built under current leadership).
Additionally, the Guardians not actually being physically present during the queue and preshows absolutely reeks of budget issues. Narratively, it would make sense for Peter Quill (and by extension the rest of the team) to be present at the opening of the Wonders of Xandar exhibit considering he was personally involved in the selection of the location. And being human, he also acts as a liaison between humanity and Xandarians. The only reason the story has them call in remotely is because the budget did not allow for animatronic figures of the characters.
If you've been paying attention you might say, "Ah! But if the Guardians are physically present for the preshow then they would have no need for the guests to keep track of the Celestial, and we would lose our narrative justification for guests to be on the mission." Which brings me to what I think is another huge missed opportunity with the ride's narrative. Our justification for joining the mission should have been to help the Guardians fight the Celestial with the Nova Corp's golden laser-net technology seen in the first film (and at numerous points in the queue and ride). The technology only works if you have an excess of ships to do it, and the Nova Corps fleet is currently without power. If our Starjumper ride vehicles were also given this ability, not only would it be a really convincing and exciting justification to join the mission, but it could also afford the opportunity to have a unique lighting package on the ride vehicles, creating a bespoke effect. I'm imagining not just the different cars in each train interacting with each other, but potentially even multiple trains at the same time being visible to each other in the show building. It could create that extra layer of kinetics found in a ride like Indy where you see multiple jeeps dodging around the temple.
At the end of the day I could dream of unlimited nitpicks for this ride, but ultimately the story isn't even my biggest issue (surprise, its the exterior of the show building). Cosmic Rewind is still a good ride, maybe even a great ride, but its identity is one of incredibly apparent circumstance. The same is true of Mission Breakout which makes this even more interesting. These rides might seem burdened by the IP mandate, existing ride concepts, and mismanaged budgets but those limitations brought forth incredibly distinct narratives that might have never been imagined if not for those limitations. It almost makes me less interested in whether Cosmic Rewind's story is "good" or "bad" because those are arbitrary and consider no weight of the context for how it ended up being created. But if you want to get that deep I suppose the same could be said for many attractions and other media in general. Regardless, Cosmic Rewind is certainly an interesting case.
Jayspency
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Cosmic Rewind's main problem is that it was too corporate of a decision. CR wasn't created with the intention of adding a well thought out attraction to epcot, but rather to have an excuse to sell marvel merch in the park, and thus was the concept was forced into an already in development project. By being required to have a guardians coaster in a park that's defining identity is edutainment, imagineers probably had limited creative liberties they could've taken. Hence why the story is so flawed because they were stuck with a flawed concept they had to make work. Thats why I'm not too fond of mandates. At least Eisner's story mandate was flexible enough to include interesting ride concepts.
osian
Well-Known Member
There's also an immersion and narrative breaking moment when we're told we must urgently make our way to evacuation shuttles, then we go through the doors to find another group before us in a huge crush in that waiting room (err, where did they come from?) and have to hang around for about 15 minutes. And during that time the doors open behind us and another group is ushered in urgently (err, where did they come from?), and we hear the same "unscripted", "someone" needs to tell me when I'm on" dialog that we heard when we came in.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
It’s a ride in an amusement park. Sometimes the fact that a ride has to function as a ride breaks immersion. Quite a crowd being secretly snuck off by Rey and captured by the First Order, too. And just how many backstage passes is Steven Tyler handing out last minute?
As for the storyline jumping all over the place in CR, that’s kinda how the Guardians movies are.
The Leader of the Club
Well-Known Member
This is why I love that little line after the Dinosaur preshow that “only you are going on this special mission.” Even though there are all lot of time Rovers loading, only you are going back for Aladar. The rest are on their predetermined route.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Well, along with the other 80 people in the preshow theater with us. Turns out every iguanodon is named Aladar.
JackCH
Well-Known Member
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Whose heads is he bouncing on if you sit in the front row?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Or theme park designers could understand operations and not design something that will be contradicted. The designs control the length of the preshow and the size of the various spaces.
Rise of the Resistance actually does a very good job of not rushing people into a crowd. After Rey’s transmission you walk straight into the transport, not a queue. Nor is there a queue waiting on the other side of the interrogation room.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Just a queue before interrogation, sometimes long. But, I agree that Rise has the best-controlled guest flow we’ve seen.
Fido Chuckwagon
Well-Known Member
If it took you three rides to understand what was going on on GOTG, then that’s a “you” problem. The ride is not hard to follow.
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree with what you're saying, but on this point, it's time travel. Once you jump to a specific point with the tracker, the Guardians and Nova Corps should also be able to travel to that exact same point in the space-time continuum regardless of how much later they leave. They don't have to show up some unspecified amount of time later that accounts for the relative difference in departure time since you're going somewhen, not somewhere.
DreamfinderGuy
Well-Known Member
It seems several in this thread alone would disagree with you
Jayspency
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I think its easy to understand what's happening based on the pre show, but on ride I cant blame someone for being lost. The on ride storytelling is really fast and hard to follow. Also am I the only person that thinks that the cosmic generator disappears way too fast in the 2nd pre show room? By the time I had finished processing the reveal of the room the generator was gone before I could even see it.
osian
Well-Known Member
Yes, you're right. It's so tiny compared to everything else, it's not the focus of attention at all in those first few moments. It took at least a couple of rides before I even realised it was there. And unless you happen to be looking at it when it disappears, you probably wouldn't have known that it had happened. The subsequent dialog then doesn't make sense. Also, because most people now head directly over to the right hand side to the doors, and first timers just follow along because they think that's what you're supposed to do, they probably miss the point as well. It's only when they realise the doors aren't opening, they turn round and see the pre-show continuing, but they've missed the beginning. Also, now they're all squashed over on one side of the room, they're pretty far away from where the action is taking place. And you can feel the frustration...oh, we've got to watch something else now before getting on the ride.
All in all, this attraction is not Disney's best storytelling moment, there are so many flaws, yet they like to keep telling us how great they are at it.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
It's a roller coaster.... And that is all the park guests are thinking about. (Sadly)
JackCH
Well-Known Member
Claire Huxtable’s and Seeker