News New Polynesian Resort DVC villas building to open 2024

[Tha Realest]

I suppose that’s for the Polynesian artists to judge? And keep in mind that while those are ancient cultures, they’re modern and cosmopolitan, too.

It’s really not. Anyone can make an independent determination as to whether something looks and feels authentic, or is enjoyable to mass consumers. Polynesian artists aren’t gatekeepers on this - Polynesians and the audience have a say as well.

 

[_caleb]

Seems like Disney pick and chooses what areas of the world have “culturally appropriate” theming.

They sell Ireland shirts in the UK pavilion, two countries that still have bad blood to this day and had violent attacks up through the 90s.

Also they sell Greek deserts in the Morocco pavilion. Seems like Disney only cares if it’s certain groups.

Of course they pick and choose. More authentic food from other cultures doesn’t typically play well in the USA.

Things like this are relative in degrees. It’s not like there are only two options: “100% authentic” or “not at all authentic.”

And Disney’s version of cultures are still romanticized, idealistic versions of reality anyway.

 

[_caleb]

It’s really not. Anyone can make an independent determination as to whether something looks and feels authentic, or is enjoyable to mass consumers. Polynesian artists aren’t gatekeepers on this - Polynesians and the audience have a say as well.

I don’t think you believe this.

Do you think you could rightly judge the authenticity of a dish you’ve never eaten from a county you’ve never visited (or even knew existed) made by a chef who was born and raised there?

It’s not about gatekeeping, it’s about lived experience. Those who have it are in a better position to determine how well something fits.

This resort is, after all, a hotel at Disney World. But Disney is saying that Hawaiian artists were tasked with decorating it in a way that provides guests (of all backgrounds) with the feeling of an experience that reflects Hawaiian culture.

Guests are free to decide for themselves how much they appreciate the result, but it would be absurd for them to criticize its authenticity.

 

[James Alucobond]

Of course they pick and choose. More authentic food from other cultures doesn’t typically play well in the USA.

Things like this are relative in degrees. It’s not like there are only two options: “100% authentic” or “not at all authentic.”

And Disney’s version of cultures are still romanticized, idealistic versions of reality anyway.

The thing is that authenticity of the brand currently being peddled was never the original aim of the parks and resorts, nor do I think this new idea of authenticity is terribly conducive to theme park design. Successful themed design relies on place, time, and shared cultural understanding (in the case of DL and WDW, this will be through a western/American lens). Some of what you’ve said suggests that of these three, only place really matters. It doesn’t matter if a Polynesian artist is too contemporary or has a vision that clashes with the time and unique cultural perspective of the resort; it just matters that he or she is Polynesian.

 

[_caleb]

The thing is that authenticity of the brand currently being peddled was never the original aim of the parks and resorts, nor do I think this new idea of authenticity is terribly conducive to theme park design. Successful themed design relies on place, time, and shared cultural understanding (in the case of DL and WDW, this will be through a western/American lens). Some of what you’ve said suggests that of these three, only place really matters. It doesn’t matter if a Polynesian artist is too contemporary or has a vision that clashes with the time and unique cultural perspective of the resort; it just matters that he or she is Polynesian.

Good points. I didn’t intend to say that Polynesian heritage was the only criteria for authenticity.

But I do think the “through a western/American lens” is the part that’s changing/changed. What used to be “the unique cultural perspective of the resort” was largely developed by people with little connection to those cultures. Now, Disney seems to be leaning in to stories and placemaking designed by/with perspectives that are closer to the cultures they’re inspired by.

And I think you and I may agree that what this approach gains in authenticity can come at the cost of thematic consistency and integrity.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The thing is that authenticity of the brand currently being peddled was never the original aim of the parks and resorts, nor do I think this new idea of authenticity is terribly conducive to theme park design. Successful themed design relies on place, time, and shared cultural understanding (in the case of DL and WDW, this will be through a western/American lens). Some of what you’ve said suggests that of these three, only place really matters. It doesn’t matter if a Polynesian artist is too contemporary or has a vision that clashes with the time and unique cultural perspective of the resort; it just matters that he or she is Polynesian.

I am not familiar with design philosophy, but my guess is that the shared cultural understanding came in at a time when there was a hunger for "authenticity" in fashionable circles in the US. Kind of like how suddenly "street food" was everywhere overnight. As always, however, consumers tend to be fickle and easily distracted by the latest shiny object.

I think a new baseline of authenticity will remain simply because cultural standards have changed. It is no longer considered acceptable for Westerners to design something that represents another culture with no input from that culture, particularly something that comes across as a bit over-the-top and almost parody like. I think that change will stay. But as far as authenticity being a selling point in and of itself, I think we are at the tail end of that trend.

 

[Disone]

Building that terrible bland hote and calling it authentically Polynesian feels more offensive to that culture than the Tiki aesthetic.

Agreed! And I guess instead of Hollywood studios being the Hollywood that never was and always will be it should have just been the actual Hollywood complete with trash on the street, closed buildings, and authentic crime.

No scratch that. I'll take the romanticized version any day. That's what a theme park is for. Taking me away from the reality not presenting the reality.

 

[CastAStone]

I can’t help but wonder about the name, “Island Tower”. It seems so bland and generic, almost as if they were intentionally playing it safe trying to avoid offending someone.

That I will agree with you on. Calling the name “bland and generic” is being generous.

Also it’s not on an island. The island is a few hundred yards away, in, ya know, the middle of the water.

 

[nickys]

Remember, they're not selling "these rooms." They're just selling the Poly again, without resale restrictions. I think this is going to sell quite well, and quite fast compared to Riviera and CFW. PVB was very popular when it went on sale the first time.

Yep. Plus the resale price for the Poly is rising fast right now. There was a contract for sale earlier this week for $196 per point. Incentives for buying direct will bring the cost below that.

 

[splah]

I think disneys lost the plot on the word authentic (it seems their definition now is made by). I would suggest a better word would be inspired for a themed setting.

The point of a theme park is being and doing things that are extra-ordinary (beyond the everyday).

As much as we’re asked to suspend disbelief. Everyone knows we’re not in the Pacific Ocean. Except for Epcot we’re not going to actual places, we’re going to imagined places that don’t have to be what exists in the real world.

Many designs are now muted where certain aspects need to be turned up to 11. I reject the thought everything from outside the North American continent has to have gravitas and serious. It’s as though “fun” was left out of the briefing. I also reject the notion that a thoughtful designer must come from the background of the work that is inspiring the new art.

I’d say design something fun, bring it to your cultural partners, and adjust if necessary. WDI is the expert in the art of guest experience. Local artists are experts in their art which doesn’t necessarily translate into a theme park setting

 

[MisterPenguin]

I am not familiar with design philosophy,

I pink, therefore I hem.

 

[Earlie the Pearlie]

I agree with most said above. I don’t want to be like “oh authenticity is the worst thing ever!” because I don’t think that’s true. There’s definitely a middle ground between actual offensive stereotyping and 100% commitment to being absolutely authentic, and I think that Disney is overcorrecting towards the latter. Some authenticity is great! Part of what makes Animal Kingdom and World Showcase’s theming so fantastic is their use of real artifacts, work by local artists, and commitment to realism. But, despite being a huge EPCOT enthusiast and a big appreciator of AK, if you asked me whether I would rather spend time in an authentic Harambe or Morocco, or a highly stylized and not “grounded” Adventureland a la Paris… I think I would pick the Adventureland. It’s more fun for me!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Regarding the current exterior painting seen from the lagoon, has anyone else noticed all the white paint on the right hand side of the tower?

Both artist renderings (original and recent) do not indicate any white in these areas. In person, it almost looks as if they might be trying to tie in, or blend, the white aesthetic of the GF side of the tower on the right, with the brown/beige aesthetic of Poly side on the left. Yuck, I certainly hope not.

They’ve been using light colored bonding agents on the building.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Good points. I didn’t intend to say that Polynesian heritage was the only criteria for authenticity.

But I do think the “through a western/American lens” is the part that’s changing/changed. What used to be “the unique cultural perspective of the resort” was largely developed by people with little connection to those cultures. Now, Disney seems to be leaning in to stories and placemaking designed by/with perspectives that are closer to the cultures they’re inspired by.

And I think you and I may agree that what this approach gains in authenticity can come at the cost of thematic consistency and integrity.

Reducing the authenticity to mere decoration doesn’t really change that dynamic. If anything it makes it worse, it’s a thin layer on top of a completely different typology.

 

[_caleb]

Reducing the authenticity to mere decoration doesn’t really change that dynamic. If anything it makes it worse, it’s a thin layer on top of a completely different typology.

Fair point, if that is indeed what’s happening here. I’m no expert in Polynesian hotel architecture.

But it’s an interesting question: can some degree of authenticity be achieved using non-indigenous typologies?

 

[splah]

Fair point, if that is indeed what’s happening here. I’m no expert in Polynesian hotel architecture.

But it’s an interesting question: can some degree of authenticity be achieved using non-indigenous typologies?

of course!

it comes down to thoughtful consideration in design. the parks aren't recreating real-life they are amplifying the best parts, the most intriguing parts, the parts that people (and especially people unfamiliar with the source) happily want to explore. my view is they want to be so "authentic" they end up creating things that exist already and are afraid to explore what makes those things unique in the first place. they risk creating a museum of fakes vs. an invitation to explore a place deeper. and a bigger philosophical question, why does something in a theme park need to be "authentic" in the first place? respectful & appropriate, yes. Authentic what does it mean to be in authentic in a purely manufactured environment.

the polynesian is not a real place, it shouldn't be, and it shouldn't be held to "real" standards because it's not real. this hotel tower doesn't capture the feeling of escaping to a tropical island, there's no charm. i've never been to hawaii, but which hotel inspires me to go. the unique fun one, or the generic modern one?

(as an aside i think that's why SWGE feels flat, they made a fantastical world real. i agree that's what a real outpost probably would look like on the galaxy's edge, but is that somewhere where i want to be? where's the life, where's the charm?)

 

[BrianLo]

Building that terrible bland hote and calling it authentically Polynesian feels more offensive to that culture than the Tiki aesthetic.

It’s nicer than 99% of actual infrastructure/hotels in Polynesia though.

 

[donaldtoo]

Building that terrible bland hote and calling it authentically Polynesian feels more offensive to that culture than the Tiki aesthetic.

Nobody should knock the tiki aesthetic, as tons of businesses have made bank on it over the decades, including Disney…!!!!!

 

[mattpeto]

I believe it was previously mentioned, or at least strongly assumed. But details have been rather scarce so far.

The leaked blueprints that went around these forums revealed a restaurant I believe, along with a 2 bathroom 1 bedroom room layout (Like Kidani and BLT-IIRC).

 

[The Hatbox Ghost]

They’ve been using light colored bonding agents on the building.

I appreciate your response, thank you! That's what I had assumed as well, but what peeked my curiosity is that this is the only section of the tower that they have painted white. And it's been left in this "boxed" pattern for months while they paint around the white areas.

Anyhow, that's why the white areas stood out to me as 'finished'.