Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[KDM31091]

After rise on the same ILL rides? Oh Jesus.

They really don't think there's a ceiling is there? Attendance is soft isn't it?

It has been soft. Apparently they will keep raising it until they can’t get away il

This is silly. First LL has development costs, infrastructure, implementation costs, maintenance, hosting costs., ect., all of which cost/costs the company money.

Second its not greed, its a busienss, the company is supposed to make money. It has a product that people want. Contrary to some on these message boards, people do NOT want to go back in time over 25 years ago to when there were no fast passes.

Third, why is it unfortunate that WDW has found something people want to buy, and are selling it at a price that people think has value? If you don't like it, that's fine don't buy it. But on the limited amount of time I can get away from work, and get my family on a vacation, we are not going to waste time standing around in lines. We, and it appears enough other customers, are willing to pay additional amounts to skip past lines. But i know some people (mostly without kids) who don't mind going to the parks, and just casually walking from drink spot to snack stand, to show, and will just hop on whatever rides they want, that have good wait times. They don't want/value the same things I do, and i like that Disney has different pricing features so that we both get what we want.

The infrastructure was already in place well before they started charging for it.

Yes, everyone values different things and if someone wants to pay the money, that’s fine with me, but my argument is no one should have to. This should just be abolished. One standby line moves much much faster than when you have these nonsense add on queues. WDW attractions are generally very efficient and LL destroys that.

 

[bmr1591]

Don't worry, they will do both.

Unfortunately, I know.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Sounds like they are going to have to inflate those standby times even more in order to justify the higher pricing.

You need to consider the source...

 

[ChrisRobin124]

First who actually turns up to WDW without tickets already being purchased? WDW isn't some roadside park where people spur of the moment just decide to stop in and think about buying a ticket on a random Saturday morning.

Second, if you really can't understand online ordering of different options with differing pricing, its time to take your AARP card and head off to play some canasta or something. We aren't talking multivariable calculus here.

And third, do you see days where there are tons of LL's not being bought? When you are the back, assuming your still going and not just complaining on a MB about a place you don't go to, do you see LL lines that are empty bc people aren't buying and using them? It's not me saying so, is the consumer actually buying the product that shows people want it, or find value in it.

I go frequently, spend quite a bit, buy LL multi and single. AND have an AARP card and play canasta!! So what's your point?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Thought I would be surprised (and i have no numbers or information contrary to yours so not saying your wrong) that the total R&D and implementation cost would only be 2X of yearly operational costs.

Really though? It's a pretty crappy system that was built off the backbones of the existing IT infrastructure and the existing FP+ system, which is part of the reason why it is so buggy. It's not like they developed it from the ground up. Maxpass already existed at Disneyland and this was just a paid version of that.

 

[Purduevian]

Take this for what it's worth.

I'm told that if you look at the supply/demand curve for LL, there's tons of room for Disney to increase prices when crowds are above average.

That is, there are still more people willing to throw more money at waiting less in line.

I don't think they'll do it, but it would not surprise me if the math showed revenue maxxed out at around $75 per person per day during the winter holidays.

I'm not going to lie... I would probably pay ~$50 per person at magic kingdom or hopper for the current form of G+. I tend to go to Disney for a maximum of 4 days. My upcoming trip is just 2 park days for which I'm paying $163.32 per day (base) or $208.58 per day (if we upgrade to a hopper) per person, just to get in the gate.

I'm also a power user of G+ and have yet to get any less than 7 LLs in a day.

$75 is probably too much for me, but I still think at $50 per person per day is probably fair

 

[John park hopper]

A dollar here -a dollar there -it all adds up ----death by a thousand cuts

 

[Disstevefan1]

This is silly. First LL has development costs, infrastructure, implementation costs, maintenance, hosting costs., ect., all of which cost/costs the company money.

Second its not greed, its a busienss, the company is supposed to make money. It has a product that people want. Contrary to some on these message boards, people do NOT want to go back in time over 25 years ago to when there were no fast passes.

Third, why is it unfortunate that WDW has found something people want to buy, and are selling it at a price that people think has value? If you don't like it, that's fine don't buy it. But on the limited amount of time I can get away from work, and get my family on a vacation, we are not going to waste time standing around in lines. We, and it appears enough other customers, are willing to pay additional amounts to skip past lines. But i know some people (mostly without kids) who don't mind going to the parks, and just casually walking from drink spot to snack stand, to show, and will just hop on whatever rides they want, that have good wait times. They don't want/value the same things I do, and i like that Disney has different pricing features so that we both get what we want.

You are right, TWDC is a business and must make money to survive, especially they way they burn through money in their movie and streaming businesses.

In my opinion, today, folks are feeling they MUST (they feel forced to) purchase LL, not that they are purchasing it because they see any value in it.

Also, in my opinion, folks are feeling Disney can easily manipulate the wait times as they wish on any attraction to again, force folks to purchase LL to be able to get on a few attractions in a park day.

Also, in my opinion, LL costs take away dollars from food and merch purchases and those teams hate that.

 

[JD80]

The topic of the thread is Disney World. There is no need to be specific in which location he's referencing.

Sure but context matters.

 

[JD80]

A dollar here -a dollar there -it all adds up ----death by a thousand cuts

You don't need LL to enjoy your day at any of the parks.

 

[Disstevefan1]

You don't need LL to go on any attractions to enjoy your day at any of the parks.

FIFY

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

First I wish you and others would stop looking down on other parks. They are not roadside attractions but parks that draw millions of guests a year.

Second just cause people buy it doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Disney guests have been programmed to think they need LLs to enjoy the parks.

I look down on other parks bc they are generally not of the same quality, don't have the characters I like, nor the lavish rides as opposed to just thrill type coasters.

But all that being said, my comment wasn't a put down. As far as other/road side parks go, I happen to love Gatorland. I do not think calling it a roadside park, which it clearly is, is an insult. But to my point you an't compare Gatorland to WDW. Nor does it change my point that WDW is a destination location type trip. People aren't just spur of the moment saying, "Hey i got nothing else to do this afternoon, lets drive up to MK and see what there is to do there. I wonder how much a ticket is for this afternoon. That was the point of my reply, no one is walking up to the ticket booth and getting confused about ticket prices bc they have been online reviewed the costs prior to going to the park, and already bought all their tickets.

As to your second point, yes it really does. Listen I dont' care about what your personal opinion is about what is good and isn't, or what you think is needed to enjoy the parks. WDW doesn't care what your person opinion is either, nor do they care what my personal subjective opinion is. They care about what their target demographic thinks and what their customers are willing to purchase. If enough people want something, it they think it is better to have it than not, and creates a more enjoyable day at the park to have it than not, then it makes it an objectively desirable/good product.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

You don't need LL to enjoy your day at any of the parks.

Post like this are just so selfcentered and obtuse.

YOU might not need LL to enjoy your day. If so good for you, I don't really care, but if you don't want to spend the money for it, and would rather wait in line, thats your choice.

But its absurd to think that since that's your personal preference, its an objective truth for everyone going to the park. There are multipe reasons why people may need/want LL to enjoy their day at the parks. Those reasons are completely personal to them. To them yes they need it, and you really have no basis go comment on what other people need or want for their enjoyment.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Also, in my opinion, LL costs take away dollars from food and merch purchases and those teams hate that.

I didn't have any comment on the other part of your post but this one surprised me. I actually thought LL and the old fast passes had an increase in food and mech purchases. For us knowing we have a set time to get to a ride and then not have to wait in line means we are willing to stop at the snack cart to get an icecream or a fronze lemonade (the minute maid frozen lemonade in frontier land has to have crack in it, only way to explain why it is so good.) Or during the old days of FP and LL pre-purchase you could build your quick/sit down meals around your rides. with the 1 hour window to use your time, it really didn't matter if we took an extra 5-15 minutes getting to the ride, since are skipping the main line anyway, so we get the extra treat, or take a look at some pins, ect. What do you think is the negative effect on the food and merch purchasing from the LL model?

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Really high, just like it is really high at Universal (more than the regular ticket in many cases). You would see a lot less people use this than the current system.


Exactly. Simplify it.

But would that really be a better system for the majority of guests? Personally i don't think i have a dog in this fight. We are fortunate enough that we would not ever be priced out of the express pass market. If they had it, we would buy it really without looking at cost because we enjoy not waiting in lines.

But I also recognize that isn't everyone. Isn't it a better system that people who can't afford that extreme extra cost for purchasing a single item that lets you skip everything, can still target certain rides/days that are most important to them, and get those at a cost they can afford? I mean if you are a mountain person, isn't it better to offer something that they can selectively try to target those rides, and those alone b/c they don't care about little mermaid?

I am the exact opposite. Flight of Pandora is about the extent of my thrill riding, and when forced/guilted by my mom or wife, i will go on 7d. But i am not doing Tron, or Everest, or even Slinky, ect. But if the single EP is the only option, I am buying it so i don't wait in line at haunted mansion or Jungle cruise, while anyone who would have wanted to skip one of the other rides is locked out from the opportunity.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Really though? It's a pretty crappy system that was built off the backbones of the existing IT infrastructure and the existing FP+ system, which is part of the reason why it is so buggy. It's not like they developed it from the ground up. Maxpass already existed at Disneyland and this was just a paid version of that.

Even if built off of existing IT and infrastructure, all that still had costs, which were likely amortized over a number of years. Some of the original stuff might have been paid off, but I would guess there were expenditures when they made the transition from FP+ to Genie that were new.

I will also be honest I have never experienced any buggyness with the FP+ or Genie+/LL systems. You could argue the UI isn't the smoothest, thought it really hasn't bothered me that much, but I do not ever remember any extended downtimes, or non-responsiveness from the system. I will admit I don't follow it all that closes, but i don't remember there being an abnormal amount of software patching being announced for the system either.

But in general yes, no matter the start up/investment costs, I would be surprised if the annual operating cost for almost any system was 50% of the creation/infrastructure and delipment costrs.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I didn't have any comment on the other part of your post but this one surprised me. I actually thought LL and the old fast passes had an increase in food and mech purchases. For us knowing we have a set time to get to a ride and then not have to wait in line means we are willing to stop at the snack cart to get an icecream or a fronze lemonade (the minute maid frozen lemonade in frontier land has to have crack in it, only way to explain why it is so good.) Or during the old days of FP and LL pre-purchase you could build your quick/sit down meals around your rides. with the 1 hour window to use your time, it really didn't matter if we took an extra 5-15 minutes getting to the ride, since are skipping the main line anyway, so we get the extra treat, or take a look at some pins, ect. What do you think is the negative effect on the food and merch purchasing from the LL model?

I was speaking folks have less money to purchase food and merch because they are spending money on single and multi LL. And (I have heard. I have no data) the food and merch teams are feeling it.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I was speaking folks have less money to purchase food and merch because they are spending money on single and multi LL. And (I have heard. I have no data) the food and merch teams are feeling it.

Oh just less discretionary spending going to this as opposed to snacks and food. I guess i could see that.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Putting everything else aside. Do you really think Disney should have kept FP/Genie/Whatever the new name Free of charge & miss the opportunity to monetize it?

100% yes, I’d rather they raise ticket prices and keep perks like Magical Express, FP, luggage delivery, etc… the end price may be the same but at least I felt I got value for my money, now it just feels like we’re being nickel and dimed to death the whole time we’re at the parks.

It’s why we fly United and Delta over Spirit and Frontier, you pay more but you get more for your money. Disney feels like Spirit airlines now and they should find that insulting.

I think comparing a cruise experience to parks experience is tricky. Yes, with a cruise you don't have to wake up at 7 am for VQ, LL but there's also no attractions at all. But food is included in price you've paid and no micro transactions as you mentioned amd also no fighting crowds/lines.

If you visit WDW, you could treat it similar to a cruise and just wake up, skip the parks and do the same things you would on the boat, ie relax at the pool, eat, stroll around and have a drink sans ocean view of course. If you have dining plan, food would be included similar to a cruise.

The sad thing is we’ve discussed doing resort only vacations at WDW and there’s a very real possibility we will in the future. MK and HS are our least favorite parts of a WDW vacation, we still enjoy the less-ride focused parks like EP and AK though so we’ll probably continue to visit them also. What used to be 6-7 days at WDW is quickly turning into 3 though.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Even if built off of existing IT and infrastructure, all that still had costs, which were likely amortized over a number of years. Some of the original stuff might have been paid off, but I would guess there were expenditures when they made the transition from FP+ to Genie that were new.

I will also be honest I have never experienced any buggyness with the FP+ or Genie+/LL systems. You could argue the UI isn't the smoothest, thought it really hasn't bothered me that much, but I do not ever remember any extended downtimes, or non-responsiveness from the system. I will admit I don't follow it all that closes, but i don't remember there being an abnormal amount of software patching being announced for the system either.

But in general yes, no matter the start up/investment costs, I would be surprised if the annual operating cost for almost any system was 50% of the creation/infrastructure and delipment costrs.

The bugginess I am referring to mostly is the number of days they have had crashes where the system just didn’t work at all, for hours at a time.