Gideon's Bakehouse coming to Disney Springs

[UNCgolf]

Yes, but focusing on Florida minimum wage isn't really helpful when Orlando is a particularly expensive place to live in the state meaning higher than minimum wage is needed, Gideon's is significantly busier (thus higher stress) than most businesses even in Orlando making employee retention difficult with minimum wage, and Disney/Gideons has WELL above "minimum" standards for their cast members and thus deserve well above minimum wage to compensate for that.

I get your point, but nobody is forcing people to work at Gideon's. If they don't think they're making enough money there, go get a job elsewhere. If Gideon's was unable to keep employees they'd either be forced to increase the pay structure or shut down.

Regardless, I doubt Gideon's is ever going to offer employees $20 an hour (I have a feeling they probably couldn't afford to) -- my guess is if it was not a tipped position, the employees would end up making less money than they currently make.

 

[Lilofan]

I get your point, but nobody is forcing people to work at Gideon's. If they don't think they're making enough money there, go get a job elsewhere. If Gideon's was unable to keep employees they'd either be forced to increase the pay structure or shut down.

Regardless, I doubt Gideon's is ever going to offer employees $20 an hour (I have a feeling they probably couldn't afford to) -- my guess is if it was not a tipped position, the employees would end up making less money than they currently make.

If Gideons ever pays their staff $20 per hour it is not if but when there is a price increase in that $6 cookie.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Exactly. What's more likely; that Disney and RCID let Gideon's build and operate a space that wasn't fully in compliance with their strict building and safety requirements, or that some anonymous person on the internet was throwing around unfounded hyperbole about the kitchen being a "deathtrap?" The whole thing seemed sketchy from the start.

Things do get through the permitting process. It’s not usually egregious issues but it does happen.

The bigger issue with non-compliant spaces is post-occupancy modifications. Something like a door being blocked by a storage shelf is incredibly common. The problem with the allegation is that only having one exit, even from a commercial kitchen, is not inherently prohibited. Depending on the specific design of the space additional exits could be required, and some of those reasons could be ones that get less scrutiny by designers and reviewers, but that’s not information that was presented.

There are also, unfortunately, too many people out there still who would have fit in with management at the Triangle Shirtwaste Factory. People do intentionally create hazards such as blocking exit doors for reasons like loss prevention or preventing unauthorized breaks.

 

[jaklgreen]

Owner is not taking advantage of the law as you described. He was following the law , $9 per hour plus tips.

I think that we can agree that the law was meant for servers as they are expected to get tips. This is actually the first time that I have heard of any counter service place pay server wages. I think that it is despicable and it is definitely a loop hole in the law. I don't know how anyone can be fine with people getting paid $9/hr in this day and age.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think that we can agree that the law was meant for servers as they are expected to get tips. This is actually the first time that I have heard of any counter service place pay server wages. I think that it is despicable and it is definitely a loop hole in the law. I don't know how anyone can be fine with people getting paid $9/hr in this day and age.

They aren't getting paid just $9/hr, though, nor is it a loophole. They're still guaranteed minimum wage, and indications are they make more than that.

As I've said before, I still don't think this should be a tipped position, but my guess is they're actually making more money than they would otherwise, because this would probably be a minimum wage job.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think that we can agree that the law was meant for servers as they are expected to get tips. This is actually the first time that I have heard of any counter service place pay server wages. I think that it is despicable and it is definitely a loop hole in the law. I don't know how anyone can be fine with people getting paid $9/hr in this day and age.

“(t) ‘Tipped employee’ means any employee engaged in an occupation in which he customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips.”

That’s all there is in the law. It’s not a loophole. It’s just not based on some sort of categorization like you believe.

 

[MissingDisney]

They aren't getting paid just $9/hr, though, nor is it a loophole. They're still guaranteed minimum wage, and indications are they make more than that.

As I've said before, I still don't think this should be a tipped position, but my guess is they're actually making more money than they would otherwise, because this would probably be a minimum wage job.

My kids both worked at similar types of situations when in school/college. They were not servers at restaurants so the presumption that the pay structure was only meant for servers is false at least where we live, which is a metro area with many, many businesses like these quick counter service types.

When hired and at their semi-annual reviews, they could choose which pay structure they wanted for the next 6 months. They could be paid a guaranteed hourly wage that was a buck or two over minimum wage and a very minimal tip share or they could be paid tip wages and get full tips. Even with option 2, one is at least guaranteed minimum wage. That's the law.

They quite smartly always chose option 2 and they made great wages doing so. Great service reaps great tips. But they had to take a risk on themselves and others to make that money. If they were uncomfortable doing so, they could take the safe route and make less or get a different job.

But never did they feel it was their employer's responsibility to make sure their finances were comfortable. When they needed more, they sought other employment.

 

[jaklgreen]

They aren't getting paid just $9/hr, though, nor is it a loophole. They're still guaranteed minimum wage, and indications are they make more than that.

As I've said before, I still don't think this should be a tipped position, but my guess is they're actually making more money than they would otherwise, because this would probably be a minimum wage job.

Yeah, we know that they are guaranteed minimum wage, so are servers. But how does that make it right to use this law for non servers just because they get tips? I truly don't understand how anyone can support a business that won't even pay their employees minimum wage. Every other counter service place pays at least minimum wage and they allow their people to keep any tips. Like I said, I have worked these jobs for over 30 years and not a single one paid server wages. There is nothing that anyone can say to convince me that this is not shady.

 

[UNCgolf]

Yeah, we know that they are guaranteed minimum wage, so are servers. But how does that make it right to use this law for non servers just because they get tips? I truly don't understand how anyone can support a business that won't even pay their employees minimum wage. Every other counter service place pays at least minimum wage and they allow their people to keep any tips. Like I said, I have worked these jobs for over 30 years and not a single one paid server wages. There is nothing that anyone can say to convince me that this is not shady.

Again, I agree with you in principle that this shouldn't be considered a tipped position.

In practice, though? They're almost certainly making more money than they would make if they were just paid minimum wage (and it's unlikely Gideon's would be paying much more than minimum wage, if at all), so I don't see how it's an issue.

From a legal standpoint, if the employees were making minimum wage, Gideon's could keep all tips as additional company profit. They aren't required to give them to the employees in that scenario.

 

[Lilofan]

Yeah, we know that they are guaranteed minimum wage, so are servers. But how does that make it right to use this law for non servers just because they get tips? I truly don't understand how anyone can support a business that won't even pay their employees minimum wage. Every other counter service place pays at least minimum wage and they allow their people to keep any tips. Like I said, I have worked these jobs for over 30 years and not a single one paid server wages. There is nothing that anyone can say to convince me that this is not shady.

Non -support a business that has questionable practices? Does one realize that their iPhone , iPad , PC is manufactured in a third world country with well known rights issues and horrific working conditions . Should we boycott them too?

 

[MissingDisney]

Yeah, we know that they are guaranteed minimum wage, so are servers. But how does that make it right to use this law for non servers just because they get tips? I truly don't understand how anyone can support a business that won't even pay their employees minimum wage. Every other counter service place pays at least minimum wage and they allow their people to keep any tips. Like I said, I have worked these jobs for over 30 years and not a single one paid server wages. There is nothing that anyone can say to convince me that this is not shady.

Possibly this is the case where you live but as I stated above, the tip pay structure for establishments like this is common place where I live and employees make substantially more because of it. As also stated, it's because the company distributes the tips and cannot keep them as profit for themselves.

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not commonplace someplace else. Possibly Gideon's is actually a trendsetter in the area.

 

[jaklgreen]

Again, I agree with you in principle that this shouldn't be considered a tipped position.

In practice, though? They're almost certainly making more money than they would make if they were just paid minimum wage (and it's unlikely Gideon's would be paying much more than minimum wage, if at all), so I don't see how it's an issue.

From a legal standpoint, if the employees were making minimum wage, Gideon's could keep all tips as additional company profit. They aren't required to give them to the employees in that scenario.

I know the laws, as I said, I have over 30 years experience in these jobs. No decent boss would pay you server wages just because you get tips. And no decent boss would keep any tips. You want your employees to be happy and feel like you value them. I am actually surprised that anyone defends this on this site. I thought that everyone was all about treating employees well.

 

[UNCgolf]

I know the laws, as I said, I have over 30 years experience in these jobs. No decent boss would pay you server wages just because you get tips. And no decent boss would keep any tips. You want your employees to be happy and feel like you value them. I am actually surprised that anyone defends this on this site. I thought that everyone was all about treating employees well.

You keep repeating the same thing while missing the point.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know the laws, as I said, I have over 30 years experience in these jobs. No decent boss would pay you server wages just because you get tips. And no decent boss would keep any tips. You want your employees to be happy and feel like you value them. I am actually surprised that anyone defends this on this site. I thought that everyone was all about treating employees well.

Decent and legal are not the same thing. One can think it’s not decent without concocting legal intents that are clearly not present in the criteria laid out by the Fair Labor Standards Act.

 

[_caleb]

I know we have this debate every time there's mention of CMs or employment, but "if you don't like it, get a different job" doesn't seem like a great response to people asking for higher wages. What would we prefer–that people to not work at all because they're holding out for a management position?

I get that this whole fandom is about something that falls squarely in the category of wants-not-needs, but it really bothers me how consumeristic everyone can be about people's work.

The $6 cookies cost like $.30 to make. Gideon's has a line out the door nearly all day almost every day. If guests are feeling gouged and workers are feeling taken advantage of, can we not think of anything that could be done to address this?

I, for one, would prefer to have a well-paid person who loves their job making and serving these cookies than an underpaid, indifferent (or worse) person who's just biding their time until something better comes along.

 

[Doberge]

I'm dubious about Steve's statement about not increasing his own salary and never taking a bonus and investing profits into "new and secret things." What a weird thing to say. By his own words there are lines all day every day. The big tips we've seen are presumably off big sales, and profit margins seem high for cookies and cakes (could be wrong here). So he either was taking a huge salary initially or he's sitting on a sizeable war chest to fund secret projects.

And whatever that salary is, if he's truly happy with it then he can open just one more location and use the income from that to increase the salary of all his employees.

 

[Lilofan]

I'm dubious about Steve's statement about not increasing his own salary and never taking a bonus and investing profits into "new and secret things." What a weird thing to say. By his own words there are lines all day every day. The big tips we've seen are presumably off big sales, and profit margins seem high for cookies and cakes (could be wrong here). So he either was taking a huge salary initially or he's sitting on a sizeable war chest to fund secret projects.

And whatever that salary is, if he's truly happy with it then he can open just one more location and use the income from that to increase the salary of all his employees.

Since Unite Here 362 is representing the Gideons staff then its negotiating with company and union to agree on pay , etc and union paying members to vote to approve. It is not mandatory to join the union.

 

[UNCgolf]

I know we have this debate every time there's mention of CMs or employment, but "if you don't like it, get a different job" doesn't seem like a great response to people asking for higher wages. What would we prefer–that people to not work at all because they're holding out for a management position?

I get that this whole fandom is about something that falls squarely in the category of wants-not-needs, but it really bothers me how consumeristic everyone can be about people's work.

The $6 cookies cost like $.30 to make. Gideon's has a line out the door nearly all day almost every day. If guests are feeling gouged and workers are feeling taken advantage of, can we not think of anything that could be done to address this?

I, for one, would prefer to have a well-paid person who loves their job making and serving these cookies than an underpaid, indifferent (or worse) person who's just biding their time until something better comes along.

It's essentially impossible for every single job in the country to be more than a minimum wage job.

I'm certainly not opposed to people being paid more, but I acknowledge the reality of it. Working at Gideon's is an entry level job that requires no special skills of any kind; it's an easily replaceable position. People are never going to make any significant amount of money working a job like that.

Anyways, it seems like Gideon's workers do make more than minimum wage.

 

[Lilofan]

I'm dubious about Steve's statement about not increasing his own salary and never taking a bonus and investing profits into "new and secret things." What a weird thing to say. By his own words there are lines all day every day. The big tips we've seen are presumably off big sales, and profit margins seem high for cookies and cakes (could be wrong here). So he either was taking a huge salary initially or he's sitting on a sizeable war chest to fund secret projects.

And whatever that salary is, if he's truly happy with it then he can open just one more location and use the income from that to increase the salary of all his employees.

Steve is a rags to riches story. He opened up his first bake shop with one employee and $800 in the bank in 2016.

 

[_caleb]

It's essentially impossible for every single job in the country to be more than a minimum wage job.

I'm not sure this is the case.

I'm certainly not opposed to people being paid more, but I acknowledge the reality of it. Working at Gideon's is an entry level job that requires no special skills of any kind; it's an easily replaceable position.

This statement is true. But I don't think it should be this way, or that it's necessary.

Special skills may not be required to work at the bakeshop, but it seems to me that some people might have the personality, temperament, and aptitude that might make them more valuable to the operation than others. If I was running Gideon's, I wouldn't want the instability, costs, or risks of a revolving door of personnel. I'd want to make it possible for the best of the lot to stick around so my business could reliably provide excellent service over a long time. You don't get that by treating employees like cheap, easily-replaceable cogs in a machine.

People are never going to make any significant amount of money working a job like that.

Right. But that's a choice Gideon's is making, isn't it? Aren't we all under the impression that their operating costs are lower than the revenue being generated?

Anyways, it seems like Gideon's workers do make more than minimum wage.

Yes. I just think it's sad.