Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[_caleb]

But the real question is, why did SO many skip it altogether? Not one person in my family, or friends or coworkers even started it outside of myself.

I think this is the real question. But I don't think the answer is as simple or as straightforward as "the marketing was bad." Why do I think this? Because the series was marketed in a wide variety of ways (as was "The Marvels," which had a few different trailers and campaigns that each highlighted a different aspect of the film for different subsets of the audience).

I know people get offended at the slightest suggestion that bias might be a factor, but is it crazy to suspect that a series about a teenage Pakistani immigrant girl might have been a factor into audience's decision to skip Ms. Marvel?

And why is it that positive reviews from people who saw it through to the end (apparently looking past the marketing AND the supposed flat spots in the series) don't seem to hold much weight with those who simply won't watch the series?

Is it crazy to think there are additional factors outside the series itself playing into things here?

 

[erasure fan1]

And to touch upon something said earlier, while it didn't have a huge audience, the audience it did have skewed younger and was more diverse than other shows which is good overall for the MCU.

Yes, that's what I've said on multiple occasions. I firmly believe it's never a bad thing to make content that might cater to a more limited audience. As long as the budgets stay reflective of a more limited audience. And hopefully you endear yourself to a broader audience with a quality product.

I don't think it garnered a larger audience because it wasn't tied into a larger story arc that made it a "must watch" or had a previously introduced fan favorite character.

I agree, that was definitely a part of it. I'd also add that the inconsistent nature of the mcu in phase 4 & 5, played a big part as well. People aren't going to give something a chance when they aren't confident with the overall product.

it crazy to suspect that a series about a teenage Pakistani immigrant girl might have been a factor into audience's decision to skip Ms. Marvel?

I guess it depends on the why. I don't think anyone in any large amount didn't watch because of some dislike of Pakistani people. I don't believe there was any real bias as you say in that respect. As Irish said, the show skewed young. So I can see a scenario where older people (age 25+) especially male, could think from what they saw in the marketing, that they couldn't relate to this show. Either with a Pakistani teen or some other race.

 

[erasure fan1]

I finally watched and I have to say, in my opinion it deserves all the criticism it received. People complain the mcu has weak villains, but Darben is definitely a new low. Her development was poor and the acting was wooden. There is just a lot wrong with this film. The opening scene of Darben finding the other band. It looked terrible. Why was she looking, how'd she know it was there? Convenient plot events are normal. But this one seemed to just rely on it the whole time. The power switching is a great example. It was all super random but somehow worked in their favor.

Larson seemed like she wanted no part of being their. Iman was fine, I agree she was the bright spot of the film. But that's not a super high bar. That said I'll be interested in how she works in another team up. Hopefully they can give her some smaller parts in some other films to build her up.

The special effect were all over the place. From some really amateur cg to Skrulls looking like a Halloween mask, it was a mixed bag. The singing planet felt completely out of place and was absolutely not needed. And the script felt thrown together. Ms marvel was like, we can't just leave them! Then moments later, it's all fine. It felt like they were going to an interesting conflict but it seems like they just abandoned it. I really just don't know who they were targeting. I'm guessing it was kids.

 

[Willmark]

Can’t find at the moment, but saw a study where it showed the preferred genres of movies for men and women and for the most part it was what you would expect (nothing too glaringly obvious or out of place.)

The one that was?

Musicals.

Musicals for men were the lowest by far and significantly skewed lower than for women. The plus/minus for each genre was within a similar range but musicals for men way lower.

Now granted this movie was not a musical but with a musical number in the middle and something like 60-70% of all super hero movie goers being male?

Seems like someone didn’t do some research into the audience and just another reason among many as why it struggled.

 

[Tha Realest]

Can’t find at the moment, but saw a study where it showed the preferred genres of movies for men and women and for the most part it was what you would expect (nothing too glaringly obvious or out of place.)

The one that was?

Musicals.

Musicals for men were the lowest by far and significantly skewed lower than for women. The plus/minus for each genre was within a similar range but musicals for men way lower.

Now granted this movie was not a musical but with a musical number in the middle and something like 60-70% of all super hero movie goers being male?

Seems like someone didn’t do some research into the audience and just another reason among many as why it struggled.

It makes sense when you consider they want to broaden the audience. Their success in this regard is obvious.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Can’t find at the moment, but saw a study where it showed the preferred genres of movies for men and women and for the most part it was what you would expect (nothing too glaringly obvious or out of place.)

The one that was?

Musicals.

Musicals for men were the lowest by far and significantly skewed lower than for women. The plus/minus for each genre was within a similar range but musicals for men way lower.

Now granted this movie was not a musical but with a musical number in the middle and something like 60-70% of all super hero movie goers being male?

Seems like someone didn’t do some research into the audience and just another reason among many as why it struggled.

I can't believe nobody shut down that scene. They do understand the point of making these movies is for them to be well liked and make a bunch of money right?

 

[Willmark]

I can't believe nobody shut down that scene.

I’m just as surprised.

They do understand the point of making these movies is for them to be well liked and make a bunch of money right?

There is no universe that Disney doesn’t know who is going to see super hero movies. It’s as if they simply don’t believe what the audience data is telling them or ignoring it; not sure which it is.

The Marvels failure is indicative of a lot of things that just can’t be explained away with “super hero fatigue.”

Add to this it appears the audience that did go was largely male just not enough.

Part of me is curious as to how would the first movie done had it not been in front of Endgame? Any guesses?

 

[Tha Realest]

I’m just as surprised.


There is no universe that Disney doesn’t know who is going to see super hero movies. It’s as if they simply don’t believe what the audience data is telling them or ignoring it; not sure which it is.

The Marvels failure is indicative of a lot of things that just can’t be explained away with “super hero fatigue.”

Add to this it appears the audience that did go was largely male just not enough.

Part of me is curious as to how would the first movie done had it not been in front of Endgame? Any guesses?

Based on audience demographics, the men showed up

 

[LSLS]

Look, I'll fully state that scene was the worst part of the movie for me. And I sort of agree about the villain now that I've thought about it (I also didn't like Monica, though I did like other parts many here didn't). BUT, those are also things I did not know before going in either. The opening weekend tanked, which is what I'm really interested in. Had it started strong and faded away immediately because of those things, that would be one thing. But people saw the trailers and went "Nah, this isn't worth it at all." So when Iger states things like "Make better movies" what does that mean? Does that mean better trailers? Cause the movies are in trouble long before anyone has even seen the movies.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The problem with the dancing scene is that it wasn't extravagant enough. It was bare minimum singing and choreography and story-telling.

I have the same critique of the Bollywood scene in Eternals.

If you're going to have a song and dance with a large cast... go large, very large.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Look, I'll fully state that scene was the worst part of the movie for me. And I sort of agree about the villain now that I've thought about it (I also didn't like Monica, though I did like other parts many here didn't). BUT, those are also things I did not know before going in either. The opening weekend tanked, which is what I'm really interested in. Had it started strong and faded away immediately because of those things, that would be one thing. But people saw the trailers and went "Nah, this isn't worth it at all." So when Iger states things like "Make better movies" what does that mean? Does that mean better trailers? Cause the movies are in trouble long before anyone has even seen the movies.

This is true. But I do believe if the movie was actually really good, the word of mouth would have gotten out and this would have done much better at the box office. But yeah, it had a terrible trailer staring an overpowered hero against a lame looking villain nobody has ever heard of before.

 

[LSLS]

This is true. But I do believe if the movie was actually really good, the word of mouth would have gotten out and this would have done much better at the box office. But yeah, it had a terrible trailer staring an overpowered hero against a lame looking villain nobody has ever heard of before.

It may have done better, but wasn't it the worst opening for a MCU movie ever? The worry needs to be why are people not showing up initially a lot more than it needs to be why people don't show up in weeks 3 or 4.

 

[Willmark]

It may have done better, but wasn't it the worst opening for a MCU movie ever?

It was.

Previously the Incredible Hulk in 2008 had the lowest opening at 55 million, The Marvels opened with 46 million.

Lifetime gross is likewise bad 134 vs 84 and I don’t think that accounts for inflation.

Franchise: Marvel Cinematic Universe

www.boxofficemojo.com

Now granted, technically it’s from Universal but it speaks to the point of low release if we actually go to a WDS MCU as next lowest?

Eternals.

The worry needs to be why are people not showing up initially a lot more than it needs to be why people don't show up in weeks 3 or 4.

I think some of this is the “fool me once” type of thing going on. It started back with TLJ in SW (by way of example) and people have been becoming progressively wary (IMO) with the output from the MCU and LF.

Indy 5 and the Marvels are the latest examples.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Guardians 3 had a lower than expected opening I believe but positive word of mouth still made it a hit

The fact that my kids are really not interested in the MCU at all anymore is telling.

 

[TalkingHead]

The problem with the dancing scene is that it wasn't extravagant enough. It was bare minimum singing and choreography and story-telling.

I have the same critique of the Bollywood scene in Eternals.

If you're going to have a song and dance with a large cast... go large, very large.

Example: RRR which had musical numbers, including a show stopper, and wasn’t derided as a turn off to men in the audience.

 

[Willmark]

Example: RRR which had musical numbers, including a show stopper, and wasn’t derided as a turn off to men in the audience.

So if they made the musical number bigger and better it would have been successful by that logic?

Also no deriding needed, data seems to prove it out: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254115/favorite-movie-genres-in-the-us/

 

[TP2000]

The fact that my kids are really not interested in the MCU at all anymore is telling.

So if the kids aren't into it, and the young men aren't into it, then who are they making these superhero movies for exactly?