News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[sndral]

Riviera is 78% sold, Poly isn’t on sale yet.

The promotion of incentives at OKW sold out, outselling CFW by a country mile.

As of July 31, 2024, Riviera was 68% sold, assuming they managed another month of 100,000+ sales there in August as they did in July, they’re likely currently at 70% sold - still 2 years +/- from selling out. Which is why starting construction on another new WDW DVC resort in the near future makes sense.

This seems to be the $1,000,000 question.

Has the Walt Disney Company ever cancelled an announced project before, only to bring it back years later as initially proposed?

I don’t think they have. In the past it seems to me they’ve been a bit more circumspect with their announcements.
The nearest example I can think of is POP’s ‘Legendary years’ section which morphed into AOA almost a decade later & thus wasn’t ’as initially proposed.’
I don’t know if it was announced, but POP was originally planned to include a second half called ‘Legendary years,’ they opened Pop’s Classic years section in 2003, but abandoned the ‘Legendary years’ half, leaving empty buildings visible https://themouselets.com/disneys-abandoned-hotel-the-history-of-art-of-animation-resort. In 2010 they finally circled back to those empty buildings & announced AOA which opened in 2012.

 

[nickys]

This seems to be the $1,000,000 question.

Has the Walt Disney Company ever cancelled an announced project before, only to bring it back years later as initially proposed?

Not sure if they’ve ever announced that a project is cancelled.

The nearest I can get is how they tore down Innoventions, only to rebuild it almost the same but not quite.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t believe they ever formally canceled it, only said it was delayed indefinitely

We probably can go ahead and stop believing anything they say at this point? This does resemble old style Disney at all.

Trust only the shovels

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t think they have. In the past it seems to me they’ve been a bit more circumspect with their announcements.
The nearest example I can think of is POP’s ‘Legendary years’ section which morphed into AOA almost a decade later & thus wasn’t ’as initially proposed.’
I don’t know if it was announced, but POP was originally planned to include a second half called ‘Legendary years,’ they opened Pop’s Classic years section in 2003, but abandoned the ‘Legendary years’ half, leaving empty buildings visible https://themouselets.com/disneys-abandoned-hotel-the-history-of-art-of-animation-resort. In 2010 they finally circled back to those empty buildings & announced AOA which opened in 2012.

Oh all that happened. I know a guy that was at that groundbreaking ceremony…

They were out over their skis with pop. Didn’t need that at that time and the world events really crushed the market.

That was also the start of the rather quick 2-3 year downward spiral and exit of Eisner…

Who now that people see another example…ultimately did right and left. And he took a dinky studio with 3 gates and made it huge…

Mr clinger…has been looking for a “successor” longer than OJ looked for “the real killers”

 

[Doberge]

I think the initial sales will be gangbusters, but the mid point depends on incentives. RIV started outpacing VGF during its mid point and VGF required a large sale to overtake it again.

Yes, the incentives matter the most. We can bemoan resale restrictions but the data's you're refencing supports that buyers will go where ownership cost is cheaper. The expectation before GF expanded was thst Riviera would be burried until GF quickly sold out, and that just did not happen.

But also on prices, people are not buying the Cabins when they quote FW and Riviera and AKL (or whatever legacy resort is promotes at the time) and see that the first payment / total cost is with dues.

I'm expecting Polynesian to be priced similarly to Villas at Disneyland Hotel in a higher tier, especially when sales reopen. If they want to push Poly sales then they'll offer a nicer incentive than Riviera.

 

[Doberge]

If it is indeed Reflections returning, do you guys think it will have a new theme or it will be the same basic thing they announced way back when?

I've before pushed the idea of absorbing into Fort Wilderness for multiple reasons, including fact that we've been so close to Fort Wilderness brand expansion more or less on the same site...

30ish years ago Disney had plans for a resort named either Fort Wilderness Junction or Buffalo Junction. It was a western themed moderate hotel of 2-3 story buildings, a potential revival of the shuttered FW train that would link resorts, a duplicate of the DLP Buffalo Bill show, horse carriage rides, and other things. It was described somewhere as being like Crescent Lake with the ability to easily get to multiple resorts. It was discussed in a past Disney Dish episode and also the middle of Bright Sun Films piece on the FW railroad. The latter has some plans if wanting to see a few images. Alas, this wonderful idea was repackaged and used when Disney created the Wilderness Lodge Villas, now Boulder Ridge.

Considering it's unlikely Disney goes back to that same well then they need something new. I didn't think the lakeside lodge was a bad idea, it just suffered from a bad name and underwhelming render in, both of which can be improved. Even the Poly tower we're getting isn't the first Poly tower rendering ad those go back a ways (here's one: https://www.genesisstudios.com/portfolio-item/313069-hhcp-disney_polynesian-porte_cochere/).

My point is that Disney plays with different designs, as one would expect. I'd still anticipate a silimilar lake resort theme because it fits well between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. Wilderness Lodge drawing inspiration from multiple national parks makes it particularly difficult. I'd love to see them lean into Americana more as areas like Liberty Square feel threatened. Something like the Williamsburg Inn with a colonial era / early American theme and bringing in ideas from Disney's America park. Move Liberty Tree Tavern and incorporate ideas like carriages from Fort Wilderness Junction. Alas it'll never happen because Disney probably considers the era "problematic."

 

[rogerrabbitfan9]

Even if they bring something back on the site of reflections I hope they revisit the exact design of the hotel including the name. The renderings we’ve gotten for Reflections just weren’t great.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've before pushed the idea of absorbing into Fort Wilderness for multiple reasons, including fact that we've been so close to Fort Wilderness brand expansion more or less on the same site...

30ish years ago Disney had plans for a resort named either Fort Wilderness Junction or Buffalo Junction. It was a western themed moderate hotel of 2-3 story buildings, a potential revival of the shuttered FW train that would link resorts, a duplicate of the DLP Buffalo Bill show, horse carriage rides, and other things. It was described somewhere as being like Crescent Lake with the ability to easily get to multiple resorts. It was discussed in a past Disney Dish episode and also the middle of Bright Sun Films piece on the FW railroad. The latter has some plans if wanting to see a few images. Alas, this wonderful idea was repackaged and used when Disney created the Wilderness Lodge Villas, now Boulder Ridge.

Considering it's unlikely Disney goes back to that same well then they need something new. I didn't think the lakeside lodge was a bad idea, it just suffered from a bad name and underwhelming render in, both of which can be improved. Even the Poly tower we're getting isn't the first Poly tower rendering ad those go back a ways (here's one: https://www.genesisstudios.com/portfolio-item/313069-hhcp-disney_polynesian-porte_cochere/).

My point is that Disney plays with different designs, as one would expect. I'd still anticipate a silimilar lake resort theme because it fits well between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. Wilderness Lodge drawing inspiration from multiple national parks makes it particularly difficult. I'd love to see them lean into Americana more as areas like Liberty Square feel threatened. Something like the Williamsburg Inn with a colonial era / early American theme and bringing in ideas from Disney's America park. Move Liberty Tree Tavern and incorporate ideas like carriages from Fort Wilderness Junction. Alas it'll never happen because Disney probably considers the era "problematic."

I seriously doubt there is ANY intention of “mixed use” room inventory

It’s gonna be more fast and quick with minimal amenity

So magical

 

[Bocabear]

Even if they bring something back on the site of reflections I hope they revisit the exact design of the hotel including the name. The renderings we’ve gotten for Reflections just weren’t great.

Yeah but they paid for them already.....So for sure we will get that...Maybe some changes in thew interior design since the products that were spec'd are no longer the same...
but I would not expect them to start over again.... not after the investment in the plans....

 

[GimpYancIent]

Yeah but they paid for them already.....So for sure we will get that...Maybe some changes in thew interior design since the products that were spec'd are no longer the same...
but I would not expect them to start over again.... not after the investment in the plans....

Agree. A scrapping and reinvention no. However, in keeping with current Disney management mentality a cheapening or watering down of the original, sadly yes.