Joe Rohde on how Avatar fits within Disney's Animal Kingdom

[RSoxNo1]

4 - IPs are OK if we can explain them away. (Which means every IP)

Woody Wookpecker would fit:
- He's a woodpecker
- He transforms nature through his pecking of wood
- He makes me want to burrow some holes in trees.
- All IPs can be explained and placed anywhere in any of the parks. Theming has no value... Just look at how the Six Flags parks have evolved over time.

Stop trolling please.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I'm curious if these "3 core ideas of Animal Kingdom" that he's using to connect Pandora to Animal Kingdom have ever been mentioned before, or are they just new in order to create the connection?

1 - Intrinsic value of nature
2 - Transformation through adventure
3 - Personal Call to Action

I know for sure that they've been talking Intrinsic Value of Nature since day one.
Personal Call to Action is also pretty damn visible in all the early years attractions between the poaching conflict that was part of the Safari, Kali's deforestation aesop, and Tough to be a Bug's "Respect the insects plz" message.

 

[George]

Pandora is a much better thematic fit to the park's overall core vision than Camp Minnie-Mickey ever was (IMO).

Any critique one sees typically applied to Pandora (not based on ages of human culture as it relates to animals; consisting of shoe-horned IP) applies also to the old CMM with the added minuses of CMM's internal incoherence (Virginian Pocahontas in an Adirondack Camp setting, African Lion King show in the same setting) and anthropomorphized character M&Gs (i.e. Mickey/Donald exist as humans driving cars, living in houses as apposed to toon animals as animals (ie. Jungle Book, Pluto).

Rohde really had to talk around CMM in 1998 interviews about how that land fit the original Vision (Real, Extinct, Imagined).

So Pandora bests (or at least equals) CMM in adherence to the park's theme, and it obliterates CMM in land atmosphere and attractions (safe to say). It's a huge improvement for the park.

I concur Mr. Savage. It has always been a fine fit and will be quite a fantastic addition.

 

[RandySavage]

^Oooh yeeeaaah.

I'm very keen on coherent, well-thought-out, sophisticated theme parks, and get really irritated by IP-related weakening & plasticizing, such as Frozstrom in Norway, Nemo in Living Seas or Monsters Inc in Tomorrowlands.

But Avatar in DAK has never bothered me.

I think of it as the Tomorrowland equivalent for DAK, featuring xeno-biota: Plants and animals from a distant planet where space explorers discovered a natural eden 100 years in the future. If Star Wars Land had been tacked on here (featuring a tauntaun and bantha), I'd be much more critical, as animals are only ancillary in Star Wars. As Gaia Theory and the Noble Savage are the focal points of the Avatar story, it works for me as an AK IP land.

 

[nolatron]

As @twebber55 said, those are ingrained into the Park's DNA. The best theme parks have a set of values from the very beginning and allow the park to keep future growth in line with past areas. If he was coming up with that now, there's no telling everything would fit into those goals.

A fun exercise to do is try to place your favorite Disney's Animal Kingdom attractions in those three goals. Take Everest for instance.

Intrinsic Value of Nature- After facing the Yeti you understand what a living breathing creature is capable of. The strength and majesty of those Animal instincts. Say what you will, but by the end of the ride most people feel the Yeti deserves to be left alone.

The Yeti is simply a metaphor for the wild and untamable aspects of nature. It's animal instincts and appearance evoke real animals. In the same way by the end of the attraction you feel that the Yeti is worth protecting, those sorts of feelings should apply elsewhere.

He's worth protecting not because you can watch him or because he does you a public service (in fact, he tries killing you) but because he's wild and untamable. He's Animal.

It is also accomplished by visuals too. Technically you're desecrating the Mountain by being there, but it's beautiful nonetheless.

By the end, you understand why the temple and the people of Serka Zong hold the Yeti in such high esteem.

Transformation through adventure- Pretty obvious here. You face the Yeti and almost die. It should change your outlook on things.

Call to Action- Because you've had those experiences above, you should feel moved to act differently. To approach Conservation differently and with more respect. Respect for the wild and untamable aspects of nature.

With the Yeti as a metaphorical tool, you should approach conservation knowing that though you may have doged him today, who knows what will happen in the future.

Humanity commonly looks at mountains as things that need to be conquered. In this case the conceit is turned on its head. The Mountain conquers man.

So do that just about anywhere in Disney's Animal Kingdom and you'll find it ingrained into the attractions.

Excellent info. I've never heard of the core ideas talked about before prior to this video so was just curious if they had a history with the park or not.

Thank you!

 

[Siren]

Actually, it appears there's more than one. But, you're paid to ignore those irritating details....

Hi @wm49rs! As always, I totally agree with you. They are irritating.

If everyone has the same opinion then there is no point in discussion boards.

Wow! @danlb_2000, I saw your name all over the news, rock star. I never got a chance to tell you how proud I am of you and all the others on the whole gondola discovery. I told you that 2017 was going to bring in a lot of exciting permits. I told you.

Anyway, I totally agree with you -- for some strange reason this discussion has taken a delightful turn. I really enjoyed reading all of the different perspectives here.

This is not geared towards you at all, just generally speaking....

I don't know what it is -- maybe, it's because I am so passionate for the arts. But, for me -- the theme parks are, in a sense -- a form of tangible art, that affords one the opportunity to actually live, breathe, taste, touch, hear and experience a unique perspective, a story.

It's like jumping inside of a Monet or Van Gogh or something like that.

As such, art is open to interpretation -- so, we don't have to like everything or even understand everything, in order to just appreciate it. Why can't this level of sophistication extend itself to the theme park world?

There is just so much time, thought and effort put forth by people whose names we will never know, who are working so hard -- tirelessly, day and night to create and transport us to this exotic, beautiful and amazing world of escapism -- that everyone can indulge in and create lasting memories.

So like, respect that.

How long have you waited to say that

Hi @MrHappy! Every chance I get. Unfortunately, I've said this more times than I care to mention. It's become my official theory of Avatarland, I guess. LOL.

 

[FigmentJedi]

4 - IPs are OK if we can explain them away. (Which means every IP)

Woody Wookpecker would fit:
- He's a woodpecker
- He transforms nature through his pecking of wood
- He makes me want to burrow some holes in trees.
- All IPs can be explained and placed anywhere in any of the parks. Theming has no value... Just look at how the Six Flags parks have evolved over time.

Or if you want to be less sarcastic about it, let's go through these guidelines with my preferred "If they had to shoehorn an outsider IP into Animal Kingdom, I'd pick this one" choice, Pokemon.

Pokemon is all about man's relationship with animals and the natural world, albeit a somewhat dysfunctional one depending on how cynical you are about the Pokemon League's existence. Each mainline game is structured as a transformational coming of age tale of a child journeying throughout the natural wonders of their home region and building their relationship with their Pokemon and in turn transforming them. Throughout the franchise's history, they've addressed issues of poaching, animal lab testing, and the importance of conservation which fits well into Animal Kingdom's lesson plans.

 

[flynnibus]

This is a bit general and indirect. I respect your opinion, HMF. If you have a differing perspective, by all means make your case.

Do you refer to those of us who agree with Rohde's reasoning for Avatar being in AK? As for me, I'm satisfied with it, but I disagree with many other of his artistic choices, and not just GOTG.

When you have to make a video to convince people that it works.... it's probably a sign it is a tough fit

 

[Bill Cipher]

Or if you want to be less sarcastic about it, let's go through these guidelines with my preferred "If they had to shoehorn an outsider IP into Animal Kingdom, I'd pick this one" choice, Pokemon.

Pokemon is all about man's relationship with animals and the natural world, albeit a somewhat dysfunctional one depending on how cynical you are about the Pokemon League's existence. Each mainline game is structured as a transformational coming of age tale of a child journeying throughout the natural wonders of their home region and building their relationship with their Pokemon and in turn transforming them. Throughout the franchise's history, they've addressed issues of poaching, animal lab testing, and the importance of conservation which fits well into Animal Kingdom's lesson plans.

Wonderful idea! I love Pokémon and think it has great theme park potential (Pokémon snap safari, anyone?) and could work well in DAK.

But one small problem....

Universal has the Nintendo theme park rights now. I'm hoping they end up including Pokémon in their 4th gate, but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Incomudro]

Just because Joe is explaining Pandora's fit into AK, doesn't mean that most people need the explanation.
I believe most people get it.
There are videos of Joe explaining just about any part of AK.
He explains the Jambo House for instance.
Is this because people don't understand it?
I don't need an explanation of Dinoland in AK either.
I got it immediately, and as a dinosaur fan since before dinosaurs were cool (born in '63) I liked it immediately.
Especially when my sons were smaller and they ran around the boneyard.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Just because Joe is explaining Pandora's fit into AK, doesn't mean that most people need the explanation.
I believe most people get it.
There are videos of Joe explaining just about any part of AK.
He explains the Jambo House for instance.
Is this because people don't understand it?
I don't need an explanation of Dinoland in AK either.
I got it immediately, and as a dinosaur fan since before dinosaurs were cool (born in '63) I liked it immediately.
Especially when my sons were smaller and they ran around the boneyard.

Dinoland itself is self explanatory. It's Dino Rama that gets people questioning why it's there

 

[GoofGoof]

This is Disney. They always have a backstory and a theme for everything and they usually have imagineers explain the story at some point before things open. They had videos with people explaining the theme to Disney Springs. It's a shopping mall.

I think people are looking way too into it in thinking that this video is some kind of smoking gun proving that Avatar doesn't fit. Remember that the general public and more casual fans don't debate the merits of everything Disney does like we do. It's perfectly rational to explain to regular people how Avatar fits with the AK theme or the core ideas or whatever you want to call it. Once you hear the story it makes perfect sense. It's really not a stretch at all. There are far more convoluted backstories used to tie things into theme at various parks.

 

[Figments Friend]

Bruce Vaughn...who struck me as being a total butt-hat DB.

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