6,500 Miles With the Crazies - A National Parks Road Trip Extravaganza

[Songbird76]

Yeah...people can have really interesting reactions if they aren't used to travel and being in new places. While not snooty about it, I have a good friend who is the same way. As a nearly 50-something adult, she'd like to go see all of these places, but her life was so sheltered from anything new that she gets really nervous in new spots and it usually ruins the experience. The cousin of yours just sounds more like my situation, where we hadn't seen much beyond New York and Philly and it really colored how we perceived things when we started doing more road trips and seeing life beyond our major metro area. That is interesting about all of the travel with your mom and how she met your dad. And even if your cousin was materialistic and couldn't truly appreciate his experience, you got a lot out of it. Our girls will hopefully one day get it. I really thought it would click with Sam when her science teach was green with envy over her visiting some of her bucket list places, but it may take being out on their own and doing for themselves to really get it.

Ok, so you've now got time to work some more on these things. I know you can do this. It sounds like you've got it. I just don't care for their testing system. I know...not my call, but it should count for something...right?

I think that's a totally normal thing with teens anyway. Teens are notorious for not realizing how things affect them. "Why do I need to learn this??" "Why do I have to watch the news? It's so boring!" It's not until you are older that you can really relate and see how it's important in your life. And it's possible that travel won't be their thing...My dad didn't like leaving the ranch. He came over here to visit for 5 days. I wouldn't have spent that much money for an international trip for only 5 days. He didn't even want to see anything. He was never a traveler, which is kind of weird because he LOVED history and could tell you much more about foreign history than most people. He could tell you names and dates of battles, what this one country used to be called before their revolution and which person led this troop into that battle. I'd be on the phone with him, and I'd mention my friend from Sri Lanka and suddenly he's telling me it used to be called Ceylon until such and such a year when this thing happened, and do I know if my friend is such and such or that other thing. You'd think someone so into histories would be fascinated by traveling to places they'd only read about, but my dad was never an adventurer. He was content to read about it and didn't need to see it in person. Hopefully your girls will learn to appreciate the experiences so many would love to have, but it may just never be their thing. Just like sports will never be my thing. I tried t-ball, softball, basketball....I'm just not coordinated and I really hate being sweaty and out of breath. I will never do it just for fun.

Oh, my driving instructor even told me BEFORE the test that he knew I could do it. It's all a matter of nerves with me. It's test anxiety. It's like being in the kitchen and feeling rushed, and trying to do everything at once and you start dropping stuff, spilling, the pot boils over....it's not that you're an incompetent cook, it's just that being under pressure affects your ability to keep up. I get into the test and the pressure is on and my heart is racing, and I fumble to get the gear shifted, or I turn on my turn signal and merge and don't realize my turn signal is still on, or that it turned off before I turned, or I was checking the side streets and forgot to look in my mirror before I hit the breaks. I'm so focused on trying to do everything perfectly that I don't do it on muscle memory. It's all the stuff that's not ingrained in my brain that I can do well on a normal day, but not when I'm being watched. That's why you aren't supposed to drive when you're emotional or on the phone. It's harder when you have to divide your attention. I know I've got it in me, but the pressure throws it all out the window.

 

[Songbird76]

We had discussed dinner, as it was getting late. There was a funky little neighborhood near the hotel and I'd seen a few interesting things in there. So, we headed out...

I found a place that got great reviews and the menu looked interesting. It also appeared to be about a 5 minute walk.

The place was called Mark of the Beastro and it was a vegan eatery. I thought it might be a welcome changed, but it really messed with my tummy and I don't think anybody liked what we got. I was so bad, I had to buy some stomach meds for our drive the next day.

*The ONLY soda option!

We had debated about just eating at one of the spots in the hotel, but we'd felt a bit too casual. We wouldn't make that mistake again in the morning. Now time to walk back to the hotel.

*If we were staying longer, this would have been our main way to get around the city.

David and the kids hit the fitness center and I relaxed in that glorious tub...and then sleep. We had a long day coming up and I was really worried about weather. The areas we were driving had recently had flash flood issues and continued to be a concern due to an overactive monsoon season. There was also a bad accident that day involving a dust storm. It was something like 21 vehicles and 8 deaths...and we'd be driving that path the next day.


Coming up...an unexpected road scare, Capitol Reef National Park, Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument, and our arrival in Bryce.

Is most cola not vegan friendly? I mean, I've never really thought about what's in soda, but I didn't expect it to have animal by products in it, so I wouldn't expect to not have any other options for soda at a vegan restaurant. Do they have things like orange juice or apple juice?

 

[HouCuseChickie]

I know you guys have had issues with WDW travel. That's crazy that after a day on his own, one little ride at the end now comes with strings for payback? I understand not wanting to constantly divide and conquer on a family vacation, but you also don't want to make everyone miserable. I think that was part of the flaw in this big road trip. There really wasn't any good way, at most times, to split off. Maybe if I'd rented satellite phones or bought walkie talkies, but that wasn't the case this time. Still, even on trips when there has been better opportunity, it often seems to come with a fight. I remember last year, in New Orleans, I didn't want to do what he wanted to do. We divided and conquered, but he still sometimes brings it up and makes jabs with it.

Do you think he'll get bored of pools and springs altogether? or would he be better with it if you jumped from place to place? It wouldn't get you out to Morning Glory, but you could do the area right around Old Faithful, and then you could drive to smaller areas like Biscuit Basin, Black Sand Basin, West Thumb, etc. Another thing to think about...I don't know what sensory issues can set him off or that he'd enjoy, but several of the geysers (not just in the Upper Geyser Basin) are known to soak guests when they erupt. We were too far and didn't want to get into the crowd, but in 2018, I remember people coming back from a Beehive Geyser eruption and being soaking wet. Add that into the crowds that gather as eruptions appear imminent with any of the big geysers, and I could see how it could bother some. At the very least, just something to think about in the plans.

So, you guys aren't even allowed to get a permit and practice with other licensed drivers? I understand...different countries/different customs, but it's crazy to think you'd probably already be a licensed driver if you were doing this in the US and other parts of the world.

 

[Songbird76]

I know you guys have had issues with WDW travel. That's crazy that after a day on his own, one little ride at the end now comes with strings for payback? I understand not wanting to constantly divide and conquer on a family vacation, but you also don't want to make everyone miserable. I think that was part of the flaw in this big road trip. There really wasn't any good way, at most times, to split off. Maybe if I'd rented satellite phones or bought walkie talkies, but that wasn't the case this time. Still, even on trips when there has been better opportunity, it often seems to come with a fight. I remember last year, in New Orleans, I didn't want to do what he wanted to do. We divided and conquered, but he still sometimes brings it up and makes jabs with it.

Do you think he'll get bored of pools and springs altogether? or would he be better with it if you jumped from place to place? It wouldn't get you out to Morning Glory, but you could do the area right around Old Faithful, and then you could drive to smaller areas like Biscuit Basin, Black Sand Basin, West Thumb, etc. Another thing to think about...I don't know what sensory issues can set him off or that he'd enjoy, but several of the geysers (not just in the Upper Geyser Basin) are known to soak guests when they erupt. We were too far and didn't want to get into the crowd, but in 2018, I remember people coming back from a Beehive Geyser eruption and being soaking wet. Add that into the crowds that gather as eruptions appear imminent with any of the big geysers, and I could see how it could bother some. At the very least, just something to think about in the plans.

So, you guys aren't even allowed to get a permit and practice with other licensed drivers? I understand...different countries/different customs, but it's crazy to think you'd probably already be a licensed driver if you were doing this in the US and other parts of the world.

Yeah, that can really be hard, if you like different things. My brother's family travels with walkie talkies and it works really well. We did that when we traveled South Dakota together in 2016 and had a blast with the walkies. We Rick Rolled each other, made stupid jokes and just had fun on the road. It was great. And it was really handy for things like emergency bathroom needs....just say we need to be on the lookout for a rest stop, etc. We were able to stay together. I don't know to what extent walkies would be allowed in the parks. But yes, strings....and I don't think he realized it. Like, it just didn't even occur to him that I had just spent the entire day with the kids to allow him his time alone to do all the things no one else wanted to do. I think he probably wanted to ride Soarin' too, so that's probably why he felt like I owed him, but it was just like....what in the world is going through your mind to say that when you've just had an entire day to yourself? And really, we could have easily all gone and left A sitting outside Soarin' on those seats. The lines weren't long, so he wouldn't have been there long and then we'd just all leave together. No one needed to sacrifice their time. And otherwise, he was probably just done for the day anyway and headed back to the resort, in which case he wasn't giving anything up, so why act like you're doing me a huge favor? It was really weird.

That's VERY helpful to know about the Beehive....we'll avoid that one. Getting wet is a trigger for him. He can't even stand to get a drop or two on his clothes. He HATES that and it could ruin the whole day for him. We did Kali River in 2016 and he got a few wet spots on his shorts and freaked out. I think he'll like the pools and springs up to a point, but after we've hiked out to a couple of them, he'll have more of a "Been there, done that" attitude and he won't be willing to walk in order to see ANOTHER one. I think Old faithful is a must, Mammoth is a must for me because it's one of my favorites, and the falls. And I want to see at least one thermal pool with pretty colors. Whether that's the Grand Prismatic, or Morning Glory, or what, doesn't really matter so much as long as we see one. Other than that, I want to get the kids to see some wildlife since that's lacking here. A will want to see Bighorn Sheep....you gave me the map where the ranger marked all the places known for particular animals, so I have that and we'll check out the areas with Bighorn Sheep. I don't think E cares what kind of wildlife...she'll be happy to see any of it, and she'll be up for whatever hikes or anything. But I figure the best bet is to make a list of our absolute musts, and do those. Anything else is frosting.

Nope, no practicing with licensed drivers. Only with certified instructors in the adapted cars where the instructor has the brakes and clutch, too. And there's no question I'd have my licence if I were in the states. I think I would have had my license already if I hadn't had that other instructor first. He really messed me up mentally.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Is most cola not vegan friendly? I mean, I've never really thought about what's in soda, but I didn't expect it to have animal by products in it, so I wouldn't expect to not have any other options for soda at a vegan restaurant. Do they have things like orange juice or apple juice?

I think it was more of a joke and not so much a vegan thing. It was just different kinds of coffees, teas, and whatever soda they had on hand.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Yeah, that can really be hard, if you like different things. My brother's family travels with walkie talkies and it works really well. We did that when we traveled South Dakota together in 2016 and had a blast with the walkies. We Rick Rolled each other, made stupid jokes and just had fun on the road. It was great. And it was really handy for things like emergency bathroom needs....just say we need to be on the lookout for a rest stop, etc. We were able to stay together. I don't know to what extent walkies would be allowed in the parks. But yes, strings....and I don't think he realized it. Like, it just didn't even occur to him that I had just spent the entire day with the kids to allow him his time alone to do all the things no one else wanted to do. I think he probably wanted to ride Soarin' too, so that's probably why he felt like I owed him, but it was just like....what in the world is going through your mind to say that when you've just had an entire day to yourself? And really, we could have easily all gone and left A sitting outside Soarin' on those seats. The lines weren't long, so he wouldn't have been there long and then we'd just all leave together. No one needed to sacrifice their time. And otherwise, he was probably just done for the day anyway and headed back to the resort, in which case he wasn't giving anything up, so why act like you're doing me a huge favor? It was really weird.

That's VERY helpful to know about the Beehive....we'll avoid that one. Getting wet is a trigger for him. He can't even stand to get a drop or two on his clothes. He HATES that and it could ruin the whole day for him. We did Kali River in 2016 and he got a few wet spots on his shorts and freaked out. I think he'll like the pools and springs up to a point, but after we've hiked out to a couple of them, he'll have more of a "Been there, done that" attitude and he won't be willing to walk in order to see ANOTHER one. I think Old faithful is a must, Mammoth is a must for me because it's one of my favorites, and the falls. And I want to see at least one thermal pool with pretty colors. Whether that's the Grand Prismatic, or Morning Glory, or what, doesn't really matter so much as long as we see one. Other than that, I want to get the kids to see some wildlife since that's lacking here. A will want to see Bighorn Sheep....you gave me the map where the ranger marked all the places known for particular animals, so I have that and we'll check out the areas with Bighorn Sheep. I don't think E cares what kind of wildlife...she'll be happy to see any of it, and she'll be up for whatever hikes or anything. But I figure the best bet is to make a list of our absolute musts, and do those. Anything else is frosting.

Nope, no practicing with licensed drivers. Only with certified instructors in the adapted cars where the instructor has the brakes and clutch, too. And there's no question I'd have my licence if I were in the states. I think I would have had my license already if I hadn't had that other instructor first. He really messed me up mentally.

Sometimes, for us, someone just needs a break at a different time. I did the bulk of the driving this trip and had to stay alert more often than anyone else, so even if it wasn't anything really physical...I found I needed to rest from it. I know the parks seem to be ok with Walkie Talkies. We saw people in hotels with them and have heard a few out on trails and I've seen several groups recommend them for Yellowstone and other larger hiking parks. There are several out there with decent range too, but also be wary of the ones that seem to overpromise. Even good ones that are truly capable of true long range are probably limited in the woods and with other obstructions. Honestly, it would have been nice for him to give you a break after he had all day on his own.

I'm sure there are others, but it's tricky because some are less predictable. They should have eruption prediction info at the geyser site. You'll also see a crowd gathering as an eruption nears, so that will be your sign to move back farther from the geyser. This is a pretty good visual of what it's like and what kinds of crowds you'll see before and when it goes off. I think it averages twice a day. Still, you can see how many of those people on the right got wet.

Grand Prismatic is definitely more accessible. The lot can really fill up and may take several passes for parking, but it'll be easier on him than getting out to Morning Glory. If he's sensitive to moisture, you will probably experience less visible steam later in the day when things warm up (also better for pictures). If I'm remembering correctly, the steam coming off of adjacent Excelsior Geyser is pretty intense and felt like I was getting a facial from it all. The parts of Grand Prismatic that are closer to the boardwalk aren't as hot and don't steam as much, so he would likely be better with that. West Thumb may also be a really good option...it's smaller, very accessible, and will give you a number of ultra colorful pools without the hike. Ultimately, Morning Glory shouldn't currently be colored the way it is. Back as recent as the early 1970s, it looks like a sapphire blue morning glory flower...but as people threw junk in over time, it discolored the pool to its more rainbowish state. I know geologists have done things to try and clean the channels feeding Morning Glory, but the damage is done. Several of the pools in West Thumb haven't been vandalized nearly as much and have better color.

Yes, a bad instructor can really have an impact on these things and get in your head. It happens with a lot of stuff. I have pieces of music that I worked on with certain people who said all the wrong things, to the point that I have no confidence with them. I know that's singing vs. driving, but just someone filling your head with negativity and using a teachable moment in a really cruddy way. Well, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for you come your next test.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

July 26th (I think...this is where days started to blur and the back-out plan to head home if we were tired started to sound as taxing as the rest of the planned trip)


My tummy really wasn't happy from our vegan adventures the night before, but I needed breakfast. We decided to just go with one of the restaurants in the hotel. It really was lovely, the service was good, and the food was tasty. Our server seemed upset that Sam couldn't finish her pancakes and wanted to box them up, but I wasn't having pancakes in the car. My green drink at least helped some with my stomach.

After breakfast, I stopped to get gas and everyone mocked me for taking pics of the pretty hibiscus at the gas station. Hey, they were pretty!

I had initially thought about going to Golden Spike NHS and/or Timpanogos Cave NM while we were in the SLC area, but obviously, we were too tired the day before and sometimes there just isn't enough time the next day. So, time to move on. After that, we started making our way towards Capitol Reef. It's too bad there was so much smoke in the air, because it would have been nice to see SLC with all of the mountains in view. It was all interstate driving for a bit, and the traffic in Salt Lake City was comforting in a way. I think it was lanes...just being able to change lanes to get around drivers vs. playing chicken with trying to pass into oncoming traffic. We would eventually turn off and start to head up into the rocks. Of course, we'd get behind a tanker for a while that was going 35 in a 55, but we would eventually get around. The big thing, we hit a point where everyone REALLY needed a restroom and there was NOTHING. I hadn't seen it on the map, but we came up on this reservoir recreation area that just happened to have facilities. Whew!

And if those clouds look a bit ominous...it's because they were. Weather was starting to build up and my concerns about flash floods were growing. On our way to the park, David brought up lunch. It wasn't quite time yet, but we would need something. I couldn't tell how much civilization there was out there, so we stopped in the first town we came to with some shops and such. In hindsight, we could have gone a bit farther up and had more options. BUT we were in Loa, UT and decided to buy groceries for a picnic. There was a really strange vibe in the grocery store, but I just pushed it out of my mind. After the store, we went to get some more gas, since we knew we'd be in a lot of out of the middle of nowhere for the bulk of this day and weren't sure when we'd see another station. On our way to get gas...some teens in Loa threw a rock at my car. Thankfully, there was no damage, but it definitely hit me. When we got to the gas station, several motorcycles were there that also got hit. If there had been damage, I would have stayed around to take more serious actions, but we opted to just reach out to the county sheriff. I emailed and messaged the Sheriff, but nothing. I guess they seem to support their local teens stoning passing vehicles!?!?!?!? Grrrrrr I'm sure some people will argue that it's just kids being kids, but enough people have been killed or seriously injured from idiots throwing stuff at cars that it's a felony level offense in a number of areas.

Now that we'd made it out of Loa (and passed a few towns where we should have stopped), we made our approach into Capitol Reef.

It's definitely one of those parks where you can see the land suddenly change into something pretty spectacular...

 

[HouCuseChickie]

After taking these initial pictures, we decided to hit the visitor center...

 

[HouCuseChickie]

I had to get an ornament and the kids needed stamps. We also saw that part of the park was currently inaccessible due to flooding, mudslides, road washouts, etc. The girl who rung up my ornament also said that I could reach out to any park and work with them to get ornaments for my tree for any I may be missing. I will get around to that...at some point.

As we drove further into the park, we were amazed by how lush and green things were down by the river. We found the perfect picnic spot. We didn't see any marmots (I don't think I get a pic of the marmot crossing sign until the way out), but they weren't kidding about the deer. Either way, it was a really nice spot for a picnic.

(Can you see it?)

*definitely a difference when I switch from phone to big camera.

I really wish all picnic spots were this pretty...

 

[HouCuseChickie]

*I wouldn't know it at the time, but this would later be an area that shares Zion vibes for me, as well as the entry to Arches.

After that, we drove farther into the park. I think this is my first time seeing orchards for picking in a national park. In case you were curious, this is all about the orchards. A detailed list of what they grow is near the bottom of the page. https://www.nps.gov/care/learn/historyculture/orchards.htm

The farther we went, the darker the sky got, but it made for a neat backdrop. We saw people taking chances and going off into areas with signs to stay out if bad weather is threatening...we would not be doing that. We did have several rounds of finding neat formations in the rocks. So, here are a bunch of pics from us driving through the rest of the park...

*I remember seeing a lot of this greenish hue in the rocks when we were driving towards Arches/Moab.

*The colors on that upper section seem to share some similarities to the rock makeup in Bryce

*David swears he sees a bird in the rocks, but none of us see what he does. I can see a bird, but it's not his bird.

*The deeper brown in these rocks reminds me of what we saw in parts of Canyonlands, especially driving towards the Needles district.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

So, it's kind of interesting how you can kind of see the progression in the rocks and how Capitol Reef shares certain features of Canyonlands and what we'd later see in Bryce, and to some degree, Zion and Arches. I guess it all starts to blend after a bit, but it's hard not to get carried away when each little formation is interesting for this or that reason. This is some of our drive on the way out...

*David insisted the storms were moving away from us, but I could tell that was not the case and that we were kind of surrounded.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

*Playing with depth of field

*More needles, but you can kind of see how needles become drip castle spires...or maybe it's the other way around.

It looks a little different after every turn...so you just keep taking pics...

They're still chilling at the picnic grounds...

Just about out...

 

[HouCuseChickie]

This is still only a small fraction of the pictures, but you've probably seen enough of this kind of red rocks. LOL Then again, it is a national park, so you kind of go in expecting to be wowed.

I think Capitol Reef gets the least love out of Utah's Mighty 5. Most people going to Moab go to Arches, and if there's time, Canyonlands, but normally do go a little bit farther for Capitol Reef. We were the same when we were in that part of the state in 2019. The same holds true for the southwestern portion. Zion gets the lion's share of the crowd and many people make their way up to Bryce Canyon for a day trip, but often don't push it and also hit Capitol Reef. All I can say is that while we didn't have the park to ourselves, it was much quieter than what I was expecting to see by the time we got to Zion. Although, I don't know if it was any more or less quiet than Canyonlands. We also didn't go in this Covid era and have to wait hours to get into Arches like people have this year. In any event, Capitol Reef...pretty park...quiet park...lots more to see if we had time and things weren't washed out.



Coming up....we leave Capitol Reef and head into a scary NM and get a scare with the weather.

 

[Songbird76]

Sometimes, for us, someone just needs a break at a different time. I did the bulk of the driving this trip and had to stay alert more often than anyone else, so even if it wasn't anything really physical...I found I needed to rest from it. I know the parks seem to be ok with Walkie Talkies. We saw people in hotels with them and have heard a few out on trails and I've seen several groups recommend them for Yellowstone and other larger hiking parks. There are several out there with decent range too, but also be wary of the ones that seem to overpromise. Even good ones that are truly capable of true long range are probably limited in the woods and with other obstructions. Honestly, it would have been nice for him to give you a break after he had all day on his own.

I'm sure there are others, but it's tricky because some are less predictable. They should have eruption prediction info at the geyser site. You'll also see a crowd gathering as an eruption nears, so that will be your sign to move back farther from the geyser. This is a pretty good visual of what it's like and what kinds of crowds you'll see before and when it goes off. I think it averages twice a day. Still, you can see how many of those people on the right got wet.

Grand Prismatic is definitely more accessible. The lot can really fill up and may take several passes for parking, but it'll be easier on him than getting out to Morning Glory. If he's sensitive to moisture, you will probably experience less visible steam later in the day when things warm up (also better for pictures). If I'm remembering correctly, the steam coming off of adjacent Excelsior Geyser is pretty intense and felt like I was getting a facial from it all. The parts of Grand Prismatic that are closer to the boardwalk aren't as hot and don't steam as much, so he would likely be better with that. West Thumb may also be a really good option...it's smaller, very accessible, and will give you a number of ultra colorful pools without the hike. Ultimately, Morning Glory shouldn't currently be colored the way it is. Back as recent as the early 1970s, it looks like a sapphire blue morning glory flower...but as people threw junk in over time, it discolored the pool to its more rainbowish state. I know geologists have done things to try and clean the channels feeding Morning Glory, but the damage is done. Several of the pools in West Thumb haven't been vandalized nearly as much and have better color.

Yes, a bad instructor can really have an impact on these things and get in your head. It happens with a lot of stuff. I have pieces of music that I worked on with certain people who said all the wrong things, to the point that I have no confidence with them. I know that's singing vs. driving, but just someone filling your head with negativity and using a teachable moment in a really cruddy way. Well, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for you come your next test.

I totally get that about needing breaks. A needs a lot more down time than we do, and I always plan some in, but he needs more than I plan. With my husband, he gets frustrated if things aren't happening the way he wants them to, and he can get really touchy about it. In 2016, we rode Kali River because it was SOOOOO stuffy, and most of us got completely soaked, which we were happy with. A freaked out saying he was soaked...he wasn't, but there were some wet patches on his shorts and he HATES that. This was before his diagnosis, so my husband thought he was just being whiney and he started yelling at him, and just shouted "That's it! We're going back to the resort. I'm done!" He threw a bigger fit than A did, and I had to calm him down and tell him it wasn't fair for all of us to miss out on the fun because he was in a bad mood and I wasn't leaving the park. If he wanted to take A back to the resort, fine, but E and I were staying. Then I calmly talked to A and explained his clothes would dry with as hot as it was. Then it started storming later and they closed all the outdoor stuff and we had already done all the indoor stuff, and that was the day of our Tusker House ADR where they let walkups in, but wouldn't let us check in 30 minutes early, so we had to stand out in the rain for 20 minutes for food none of us enjoyed, and it was just a bust of a day. And THAT is what my husband remembers. And now that he knows A is autistic, he's learned to be much more patient with him and can talk to him and calm him during a meltdown, but his go-to is still "Let's go back to the resort" where my instinct is more "Let's go sit down in the AC somewhere and have something to drink and see if we feel better." Sometimes a break is all that's needed and you don't have to go all the way back to the resort and skip the rest of the park to get that. But that's just how my husband deals with it....he wants to leave and be done with it. I don't. So he acts like the martyr when it's his choice to go back to the resort. He sees going back to the resort as the only option, and if I'm not willing to do that, he has to, therefore I owe him. It's hard to explain, but my husband has this tendency to underestimate things he's not experiencing himself. So when I was telling him that A was having multiple meltdowns in a day and I was exhausted, he wasn't at home experiencing those meltdowns, so he just thought I was having a bad day. He would give me a break, which was great, but it didn't help with the meltdowns. He didn't understand that it was an every day thing, sometimes 20 times a day. He was thinking it was just "normal tired kid needs a nap", not that there was something actually going on, so I just had to deal with it on my own. Same thing with the driving. I kept telling him my first instructor was confusing me and I would come home with jelly legs from nerves, or in tears, but he wasn't home, so he thought I was exaggerating and just had a bad day. After my first test, when I was explaining WHY I was so confused and all the things the instructor had said, he FINALLY heard it and said "I didn't know it was that bad! We would have switched instructors a long time ago if I had!" But I had been TELLING him how bad it was...he just didn't take it seriously until he actually saw the effects of it. But he reaches his melting point so much faster than I do. I can go through months of the daily meltdowns before I break down, and my break downs are more tears of frustration. My husband couldn't get through a whole morning of meltdowns without blowing up at all of us. He just didn't have the patience. Now he does, he doesn't blow up about it, but he still retreats rather than just trying to take a break. I don't want A's default to be to quit because something is hard. I want to help him get over the hurdles and find a way to move past the tough stuff. I don't want him to miss out on things because he gave up too soon.

Sorry, that was really long.

I had heard that about the thermal pools, with the trash. It's heartbreaking and really makes you wonder why people do these things. Like the guy who urinated into Old Faithful a year or two ago. How does that even enter your head? If you have no respect for natural beauty, why are you even visiting a national park?

 

[Songbird76]

July 26th (I think...this is where days started to blur and the back-out plan to head home if we were tired started to sound as taxing as the rest of the planned trip)


My tummy really wasn't happy from our vegan adventures the night before, but I needed breakfast. We decided to just go with one of the restaurants in the hotel. It really was lovely, the service was good, and the food was tasty. Our server seemed upset that Sam couldn't finish her pancakes and wanted to box them up, but I wasn't having pancakes in the car. My green drink at least helped some with my stomach.

After breakfast, I stopped to get gas and everyone mocked me for taking pics of the pretty hibiscus at the gas station. Hey, they were pretty!

I had initially thought about going to Golden Spike NHS and/or Timpanogos Cave NM while we were in the SLC area, but obviously, we were too tired the day before and sometimes there just isn't enough time the next day. So, time to move on. After that, we started making our way towards Capitol Reef. It's too bad there was so much smoke in the air, because it would have been nice to see SLC with all of the mountains in view. It was all interstate driving for a bit, and the traffic in Salt Lake City was comforting in a way. I think it was lanes...just being able to change lanes to get around drivers vs. playing chicken with trying to pass into oncoming traffic. We would eventually turn off and start to head up into the rocks. Of course, we'd get behind a tanker for a while that was going 35 in a 55, but we would eventually get around. The big thing, we hit a point where everyone REALLY needed a restroom and there was NOTHING. I hadn't seen it on the map, but we came up on this reservoir recreation area that just happened to have facilities. Whew!

And if those clouds look a bit ominous...it's because they were. Weather was starting to build up and my concerns about flash floods were growing. On our way to the park, David brought up lunch. It wasn't quite time yet, but we would need something. I couldn't tell how much civilization there was out there, so we stopped in the first town we came to with some shops and such. In hindsight, we could have gone a bit farther up and had more options. BUT we were in Loa, UT and decided to buy groceries for a picnic. There was a really strange vibe in the grocery store, but I just pushed it out of my mind. After the store, we went to get some more gas, since we knew we'd be in a lot of out of the middle of nowhere for the bulk of this day and weren't sure when we'd see another station. On our way to get gas...some teens in Loa threw a rock at my car. Thankfully, there was no damage, but it definitely hit me. When we got to the gas station, several motorcycles were there that also got hit. If there had been damage, I would have stayed around to take more serious actions, but we opted to just reach out to the county sheriff. I emailed and messaged the Sheriff, but nothing. I guess they seem to support their local teens stoning passing vehicles!?!?!?!? Grrrrrr I'm sure some people will argue that it's just kids being kids, but enough people have been killed or seriously injured from idiots throwing stuff at cars that it's a felony level offense in a number of areas.

Now that we'd made it out of Loa (and passed a few towns where we should have stopped), we made our approach into Capitol Reef.

It's definitely one of those parks where you can see the land suddenly change into something pretty spectacular...

I wonder if the weird vibe in the store was because you were "outsiders"? That area in Montana, Wyoming, Utah....the towns are generally pretty small and far apart. Everyone knows everyone, so anyone new attracts attention. Maybe the sheriff handled the teens without responding to your mail? He/she probably had a good idea of who it was, and you may not have even been the only one to reach out. And it's entirely possible that their parents heard about it before the sheriff did and came and dragged them home. I can't count the number of times I'd go home and my mom would say "So and so saw you riding in the convertible sitting on the back. Don't you ever let me catch you doing that ever again!" or "I heard you were sitting out by the rec center. If you loiter like that, you're going to get a reputation I don't want you to have." And that was just sitting on some steps talking to other kids. Small towns, people will call your parents to let them know they saw you, whether you were doing something wrong or not.

 

[Songbird76]

*I wouldn't know it at the time, but this would later be an area that shares Zion vibes for me, as well as the entry to Arches.

After that, we drove farther into the park. I think this is my first time seeing orchards for picking in a national park. In case you were curious, this is all about the orchards. A detailed list of what they grow is near the bottom of the page. https://www.nps.gov/care/learn/historyculture/orchards.htm

The farther we went, the darker the sky got, but it made for a neat backdrop. We saw people taking chances and going off into areas with signs to stay out if bad weather is threatening...we would not be doing that. We did have several rounds of finding neat formations in the rocks. So, here are a bunch of pics from us driving through the rest of the park...

*I remember seeing a lot of this greenish hue in the rocks when we were driving towards Arches/Moab.

*The colors on that upper section seem to share some similarities to the rock makeup in Bryce

*David swears he sees a bird in the rocks, but none of us see what he does. I can see a bird, but it's not his bird.

*The deeper brown in these rocks reminds me of what we saw in parts of Canyonlands, especially driving towards the Needles district.

Don't all of those parks kind of bleed together? I visited during college, and if I remember correctly, there wasn't much in between....you kind of went from Bryce into Zion....I don't think we did Capitol reef though. It's such a beautiful area though! Isn't Zion or Bryce one of the places in Soarin'?

 

[HouCuseChickie]

I totally get that about needing breaks. A needs a lot more down time than we do, and I always plan some in, but he needs more than I plan. With my husband, he gets frustrated if things aren't happening the way he wants them to, and he can get really touchy about it. In 2016, we rode Kali River because it was SOOOOO stuffy, and most of us got completely soaked, which we were happy with. A freaked out saying he was soaked...he wasn't, but there were some wet patches on his shorts and he HATES that. This was before his diagnosis, so my husband thought he was just being whiney and he started yelling at him, and just shouted "That's it! We're going back to the resort. I'm done!" He threw a bigger fit than A did, and I had to calm him down and tell him it wasn't fair for all of us to miss out on the fun because he was in a bad mood and I wasn't leaving the park. If he wanted to take A back to the resort, fine, but E and I were staying. Then I calmly talked to A and explained his clothes would dry with as hot as it was. Then it started storming later and they closed all the outdoor stuff and we had already done all the indoor stuff, and that was the day of our Tusker House ADR where they let walkups in, but wouldn't let us check in 30 minutes early, so we had to stand out in the rain for 20 minutes for food none of us enjoyed, and it was just a bust of a day. And THAT is what my husband remembers. And now that he knows A is autistic, he's learned to be much more patient with him and can talk to him and calm him during a meltdown, but his go-to is still "Let's go back to the resort" where my instinct is more "Let's go sit down in the AC somewhere and have something to drink and see if we feel better." Sometimes a break is all that's needed and you don't have to go all the way back to the resort and skip the rest of the park to get that. But that's just how my husband deals with it....he wants to leave and be done with it. I don't. So he acts like the martyr when it's his choice to go back to the resort. He sees going back to the resort as the only option, and if I'm not willing to do that, he has to, therefore I owe him. It's hard to explain, but my husband has this tendency to underestimate things he's not experiencing himself. So when I was telling him that A was having multiple meltdowns in a day and I was exhausted, he wasn't at home experiencing those meltdowns, so he just thought I was having a bad day. He would give me a break, which was great, but it didn't help with the meltdowns. He didn't understand that it was an every day thing, sometimes 20 times a day. He was thinking it was just "normal tired kid needs a nap", not that there was something actually going on, so I just had to deal with it on my own. Same thing with the driving. I kept telling him my first instructor was confusing me and I would come home with jelly legs from nerves, or in tears, but he wasn't home, so he thought I was exaggerating and just had a bad day. After my first test, when I was explaining WHY I was so confused and all the things the instructor had said, he FINALLY heard it and said "I didn't know it was that bad! We would have switched instructors a long time ago if I had!" But I had been TELLING him how bad it was...he just didn't take it seriously until he actually saw the effects of it. But he reaches his melting point so much faster than I do. I can go through months of the daily meltdowns before I break down, and my break downs are more tears of frustration. My husband couldn't get through a whole morning of meltdowns without blowing up at all of us. He just didn't have the patience. Now he does, he doesn't blow up about it, but he still retreats rather than just trying to take a break. I don't want A's default to be to quit because something is hard. I want to help him get over the hurdles and find a way to move past the tough stuff. I don't want him to miss out on things because he gave up too soon.

Sorry, that was really long.

I had heard that about the thermal pools, with the trash. It's heartbreaking and really makes you wonder why people do these things. Like the guy who urinated into Old Faithful a year or two ago. How does that even enter your head? If you have no respect for natural beauty, why are you even visiting a national park?

That's OK, sometimes it's good to vent about this stuff. Honestly, I can relate to a lot of it too. It may not be exactly apples to apple, but as I was starting my reply, I got read the riot act over something with the kids and he had a toddler-like meltdown. Sort of a throwing out the baby with the bathwater response and then trying to apply the same failed "solutions" to the problem. I am a more confrontational personality, so I probably don't help matters when I egg him on and tell him to stop being an irrational drama queen and that he's only making matters worse by grossly overreacting to the problem and letting his childish refusal of being wrong get in the way of finding the solution that's best suited for the child. While I think we're all guilty of it at times, he's very wrapped up in his way being the only way and not often seeing situations or people beyond him. Hence how he could easily miss that I've done a ton and act like I owe him or am in the wrong, just because it never registered on his radar. It's interesting how you note what your husband remembers with that Tusker and that day. I see it with mine too...like they've chosen to focus on the negative to the point that there's no recollection of the positive. The chosen negative focus can have a nasty domino effect. It's such a perspective thing and people often making unconscious moves to self sabotage. I guess at least with A's diagnosis, it sort of forces him to step back a bit and see more of the situation. Even the driving test really resonates with me. Whenever something of mine doesn't go right or I get upset about a situation, he doesn't really grasp how bad things were and just plays it off like I must have done something wrong to make it that way...or that I'm overreacting and it wasn't that bad...or even more often than not, just doesn't react at all. Sure, some of his is just not listening or can be attributed to his horrible memory, but it's that fear of us missing out on good things because he's so quick to act on his anger and frustration and declare it all a failure that really gets to me.

Not my picture, but Morning Glory apparently looked more like this before all of the crud that ended up in it. This pic was from 1966. I'd read that by the early to mid 1970s, it started to take on that greenish hue with the more pronounced oranges and yellows on the edges that we associate with it today. We didn't make it out there this trip, but I did notice a difference with the color between our 2005 trip and our 2018 trip. It was still far from it's original color in 2005, but the center still had more of a blue green/teal tint to it in 2005. It looked much greener in 2018. While light can play a factor, I don't think that's it. In 2005, it was completely clouded over and we had light snow flurries. In 2018, it was a clear blue sky with full sun...which is usually ideal for bringing out blue colors. It made me wonder why other pools haven't been as badly impacted and while I think over-love for Morning Glory is part of it, it's a blessing/curse location matter. It's close enough that most people can walk there, but far enough from OFI and the ranger stations that it wouldn't have supervision like the things much closer to the lodges. Still, that obviously didn't stop people like the ones you noted who went right up onto Old Faithful like that.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

I wonder if the weird vibe in the store was because you were "outsiders"? That area in Montana, Wyoming, Utah....the towns are generally pretty small and far apart. Everyone knows everyone, so anyone new attracts attention. Maybe the sheriff handled the teens without responding to your mail? He/she probably had a good idea of who it was, and you may not have even been the only one to reach out. And it's entirely possible that their parents heard about it before the sheriff did and came and dragged them home. I can't count the number of times I'd go home and my mom would say "So and so saw you riding in the convertible sitting on the back. Don't you ever let me catch you doing that ever again!" or "I heard you were sitting out by the rec center. If you loiter like that, you're going to get a reputation I don't want you to have." And that was just sitting on some steps talking to other kids. Small towns, people will call your parents to let them know they saw you, whether you were doing something wrong or not.

It is possible. I've tried to explain that concept to David and he thinks it's just some irrational fear I have from growing up in the NY area and not understanding being from a smaller town (ummmm, he's been in Houston for nearly all of his life). When we were in the supermarket, I knew they knew we weren't local. I just tried to be kind and courteous...and keep the rest of my family from coming off like jerks. The map below shows the area...that first section circled on the left with the Royal's Food Town is Loa and around where the incident occurred. Each of these little towns that followed had a number of things that appeared to be geared towards the tourist crowd that passes through. Loa seemed to be the largest. While they do get winter, I understand that Capitol Reef does see a steady flow of tourists year round. i.e. it's not like trying to get into Glacier or Yellowstone in the winter. That Capitol Reef Resort circled on the left is just before the entrance to the park. In any event, it just seems like they probably get a decent flow of people on a regular basis...enough to support some of those businesses along the way. If I were to zoom in on the map, you'd see several hotels, restaurants and even a few touristy gift shops. Still, I'm sure some locals resent it too. I figured the county sheriff (since there was nothing specific to the town) would have at least replied, even if it was just a short little something. I did also have a similar theory...small town, everyone knows everybody that "belongs" and word probably got back to their parents through someone. We saw them walking down a side street after we finished getting gas, so who knows. It just left a really bitter taste in my mouth and I'm thankful we didn't have any damages.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Don't all of those parks kind of bleed together? I visited during college, and if I remember correctly, there wasn't much in between....you kind of went from Bryce into Zion....I don't think we did Capitol reef though. It's such a beautiful area though! Isn't Zion or Bryce one of the places in Soarin'?

They do, at least in my opinion. Ultimately, there are a number of parks tied into this that are part of that bleed. I feel like it all sort of flows from the Grand Canyon into a super structure of national park and monument worthy places. It's actually Monument Valley in AZ that's in Soarin'. Don't worry...that's coming up too

 

[Songbird76]

That's OK, sometimes it's good to vent about this stuff. Honestly, I can relate to a lot of it too. It may not be exactly apples to apple, but as I was starting my reply, I got read the riot act over something with the kids and he had a toddler-like meltdown. Sort of a throwing out the baby with the bathwater response and then trying to apply the same failed "solutions" to the problem. I am a more confrontational personality, so I probably don't help matters when I egg him on and tell him to stop being an irrational drama queen and that he's only making matters worse by grossly overreacting to the problem and letting his childish refusal of being wrong get in the way of finding the solution that's best suited for the child. While I think we're all guilty of it at times, he's very wrapped up in his way being the only way and not often seeing situations or people beyond him. Hence how he could easily miss that I've done a ton and act like I owe him or am in the wrong, just because it never registered on his radar. It's interesting how you note what your husband remembers with that Tusker and that day. I see it with mine too...like they've chosen to focus on the negative to the point that there's no recollection of the positive. The chosen negative focus can have a nasty domino effect. It's such a perspective thing and people often making unconscious moves to self sabotage. I guess at least with A's diagnosis, it sort of forces him to step back a bit and see more of the situation. Even the driving test really resonates with me. Whenever something of mine doesn't go right or I get upset about a situation, he doesn't really grasp how bad things were and just plays it off like I must have done something wrong to make it that way...or that I'm overreacting and it wasn't that bad...or even more often than not, just doesn't react at all. Sure, some of his is just not listening or can be attributed to his horrible memory, but it's that fear of us missing out on good things because he's so quick to act on his anger and frustration and declare it all a failure that really gets to me.

Not my picture, but Morning Glory apparently looked more like this before all of the crud that ended up in it. This pic was from 1966. I'd read that by the early to mid 1970s, it started to take on that greenish hue with the more pronounced oranges and yellows on the edges that we associate with it today. We didn't make it out there this trip, but I did notice a difference with the color between our 2005 trip and our 2018 trip. It was still far from it's original color in 2005, but the center still had more of a blue green/teal tint to it in 2005. It looked much greener in 2018. While light can play a factor, I don't think that's it. In 2005, it was completely clouded over and we had light snow flurries. In 2018, it was a clear blue sky with full sun...which is usually ideal for bringing out blue colors. It made me wonder why other pools haven't been as badly impacted and while I think over-love for Morning Glory is part of it, it's a blessing/curse location matter. It's close enough that most people can walk there, but far enough from OFI and the ranger stations that it wouldn't have supervision like the things much closer to the lodges. Still, that obviously didn't stop people like the ones you noted who went right up onto Old Faithful like that.

View attachment 583742

I think we're all sometimes guilty of thinking our way is the best way, but I always try to remember that it's not the ONLY way, and while it may be the best way for ME, that doesn't always make sense for someone else. Like...I'm left handed. So sometimes doing something in a certain way works for me that wouldn't work for one of the kids because the way our kitchen appliances are set up, they can't access things the same way with their right hands as I can with my left. My husband is one of those who will just come in and go "Why don't you just do this??" If I'm cooking, I use the plastic packaging that meat comes in to put biodegradable trash in, like the core of a bell pepper, or the ends of a zucchini, the stem of a broccoli, etc. Then when I'm done cooking, I take it out and throw the bio bits into the container for "green" trash, and put the plastic in the container for plastic. That's my system. My husband will come in, see the plastic container on the counter and say "Why don't you just throw this out?" and then he'll take it out and put it in the bin. Then when I have "green" trash, I have nowhere to go with it, and I end up having to just use my hands, which I HATE, AND I have to make several trips out to the containers instead of just one. I do 95% of the cooking. I told him I wanted a garbage can in our kitchen so I didn't have to go out to the bins with every bit of trash. So we bought a garbage can for the kitchen, but then a few years ago, they started making us separate our trash so we have plastic, green, and regular. My system works well for me....then if it's raining, I can wait until it stops to take out the trash all at once and divide it once I get out there. If my husband takes that away, I can't do that. I can't fit everything in my hands like I can into one of those plastic tray thingies. Then, my husband decided, without talking to me about it, to get rid of our trash can in the kitchen and replace it with a 3 container trash, but the 3 containers are all together smaller than the one I had before, so hardly anything fits in there, it opens with a foot pedal, but every time I push it, it slides back out of reach under the counter, and it has to be emptied pretty much every day, but it's an absolute PAIN to empty. Each compartment has a plastic bucket inside that you have to line with a trash bag, but the bag goes over the bucket handle and you can't lift it out because of the bag. But the lid also doesn't open all the way while it's under the counter, so you have to reach back and pull it out, then open it all the way to get the bucket out, and you still have to walk all the way to the bin to empty it. So it just triples my work. I hate the thing and haven't used it for a year, because it's so inconvenient. He uses it, but he doesn't empty it. So it just keeps overflowing because he keeps using it and never emptying it, but I refuse to empty it because I don't use it. He just gets it in his head that his way is better and rather than ask if that will work for me, since I'd be the one using it, he just does it and then can't understand why I don't use it. But he also won't empty it himself because it's such a pain. But I don't think he really makes the connection that it is so inconvenient. He's convinced it was a brilliant find, all the while not wanting to empty it because it's so much work. Yeah....everything seems a whole lot better when someone ELSE is doing the hard work.

Yeah, Morning Glory was already that kind of greenish hue when I saw it in the late 80s/early 90s. It's still beautiful, just sad that people don't care about keeping it natural. What would possess a person to say "Gosh this is beautiful....great place to throw my trash!"