21st Century Fox becomes 20th Century Studios

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it got votes but did not make it to a nomination. Black Panther got a nomination.
Different years, different situations, different motivations.

My point was SMB is proof Disney can make serious dramas. AFI had it in their top 10 for the year. This won't be an overnight process. If Disney wants to compete in this arena.

Your point is moot because you think just making a serious drama is the answer to getting Oscar consideration. It’s not. It takes ambition. It takes top tier filmmakers. It takes stepping outside the box. Things that Disney are fundamentally against.

Again, they haven’t had a contender since Mary Poppins.

If somebody says to me, “Aladdin is the best film of the year”, I ask “have you seen Parasite?”. If they haven’t, I assume they haven’t seen enough film to understand what best means.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Different years, different situations, different motivations.



Your point is moot because you think just making a serious drama is the answer to getting Oscar consideration. It’s not. It takes ambition. It takes top tier filmmakers. It takes stepping outside the box. Things that Disney are fundamentally against.

Again, they haven’t had a contender since Mary Poppins.

If somebody says to me, “Aladdin is the best film of the year”, I ask “have you seen Parasite?”. If they haven’t, I assume they haven’t seen enough film to understand what best means.

Maybe Disney should buy a movie studio with a legendary track record. And then cultivate young promising talent. And capitalize projects from proven professionals. Just might work.

Spielberg and Lucas were newbies when they broke out. This isn't rocket science.
 

Stripes

Well-Known Member
Your point is moot because you think just making a serious drama is the answer to getting Oscar consideration. It’s not. It takes ambition. It takes top tier filmmakers. It takes stepping outside the box. Things that Disney are fundamentally against.
Excuse me? I didn't realize The Walt Disney Company lacks ambition and top tier talent. Their willingness to step outside the box is more iffy considering Disney's brand image if you are referring to the production of more titillating stories.
Again, they haven’t had a contender since Mary Poppins.
Quite frankly, I've viewed that as a certain lack of appreciation or disdain for the type of entertainment Disney produces or perhaps even Disney itself on the part of the Academy.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Excuse me? I didn't realize The Walt Disney Company lacks ambition and top tier talent. Their willingness to step outside the box is more iffy considering Disney's brand image if you are referring to the production of more titillating stories.

What top tier directors work for Disney? Spielberg made the BFG, and Rob Marshall (who isn’t really top tier, but is still resting on the success of Chicago) made a bunch of mediocre trash with the studio. What top screenwriters work for Disney?

Disney, due to the family friendly necessity, is generally risk adverse, which precludes top tier storytellers from working with them. Why would any artist of ambition want to work for a company that requires its filmmakers to follow the most restrictive set of rules of any of the major studios? Hence, why they’ve been an awards show non-factor for 50 years.

Quite frankly, I've viewed that as a certain lack of appreciation or disdain for the type of entertainment Disney produces or perhaps even Disney itself on the part of the Academy.

Give examples of where the Academy wronged Disney, or populist entertainment in general. The only valid example is Beauty and the Beast in the 90s.

EDIT: The Dark Knight I’ll give you. That’s an egregious mistake, and the primary reason why the Best Picture nominees are now up to 10.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Do people think 20th Century will be still be releasing movies in a few years time?

To me it looks like the writing's on the wall (no live action productions announced for 2021, other than Avatar 2) and 20th Century will shortly go the way of Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures.

From the announcement of the acquistion, one knew Disney wouldn't want to release 2x their pre-acquisition number of Studio movies (40M+ budget) per year (i.e., keep the old 20th Century Fox annual release schedule).

I'd like to be wrong on this.
It really is amazing how Iger is able to create this sort of collective amnesia around his actions. This idea of Disney producing different types of content under different brands was Ron Miller's idea, one that Eisner and Wells expanded and Iger shut down. If Iger wanted Disney producing the type of films people think 20th Century will produce he already had the means.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
It really is amazing how Iger is able to create this sort of collective amnesia around his actions. This idea of Disney producing different types of content under different brands was Ron Miller's idea, one that Eisner and Wells expanded and Iger shut down. If Iger wanted Disney producing the type of films people think 20th Century will produce he already had the means.

Disney of late wastes a lot of money trying to do the things they already could.

They need Glinda on the BoD. "You had the power the whole time, dear!"
 

Stripes

Well-Known Member
What top tier directors work for Disney?
What top screenwriters work for Disney?
Surely you have more knowledge of the film industry than to ask such questions. What top directors or screenwriters work for Warner Bros or Fox or Sony? Disney and the preceding entities are production companies. The top directors or screenwriters have their own production companies. Certain studios develop chummy relationships with top directors/talent, for example Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros, James Cameron and Fox, or Brad Bird and Disney, but that's all.
Give examples of where the Academy wronged Disney, or populist entertainment in general. The only valid example is Beauty and the Beast in the 90s.
You and I are coming to this arena with completely different perspectives. You accept the Academy's opinion of what a "best picture" film looks like. I don't. A great many animated films have deserved consideration for best picture IMO. But, when it comes down to it...
 
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Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Surely you have more knowledge of the film industry than to ask such questions. What top directors or screenwriters work for Warner Bros or Fox or Sony? Disney and the preceding entities are production companies. The top directors or screenwriters have their own production companies. Certain studios develop chummy relationships with top directors/talent, for example Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros, James Cameron and Fox, or Brad Bird and Disney, but that's all.

I explained why Disney is largely risk adverse and why they aren’t in consideration for awards. I would appreciate you to point out why they are if you want to continue this conversation. WB, Paramount, Sony take major creative risks in their films, and while several fail, the wins are worthy of praise.

You and I are coming to this arena with completely different perspectives. You accept the Academy's opinion of what a "best picture" film looks like. I don't. A great many animated films have deserved consideration for best picture IMO. But, when it comes down to it...

You are largely inaccurate. Again, I asked you to provide examples of where the Oscars screwed popular entertainment, and if you’re willing to make that claim, it’s up to you to provide examples.

Spoiler alert: Frozen isn’t a Best Picture candidate.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Ha, basically. 20th Century is the new Touchstone for sure. So I guess Iger could theoretically also close it.

Searchlights filmography though is leaps and bounds better than Hollywood Studios.

I see Searchlight more as the new Miramax. Problematic Free* Prestige!

*Prestige pictures may not actually be problematic. Bob Iger takes no responsibility for the actions of any writers, directors, actors or producers.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Quite frankly, I've viewed that as a certain lack of appreciation or disdain for the type of entertainment Disney produces or perhaps even Disney itself on the part of the Academy.
Disney, due to the family friendly necessity, is generally risk adverse, which precludes top tier storytellers from working with them. Why would any artist of ambition want to work for a company that requires its filmmakers to follow the most restrictive set of rules of any of the major studios?
Realistically it's a bit of both these things. I would bet the Academy never really has Disney on its radar. Why would they? They generally dislike the types of movies disney makes anyway. And why would top teir talent want to deal with Disneys restrictions as well. Of course I think the academy awards are kind of useless anyway. An art house picture is no more deserving of best picture than a superhero or animated movie in my opinion.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Realistically it's a bit of both these things. I would bet the Academy never really has Disney on its radar. Why would they? They generally dislike the types of movies disney makes anyway. And why would top teir talent want to deal with Disneys restrictions as well. Of course I think the academy awards are kind of useless anyway. An art house picture is no more deserving of best picture than a superhero or animated movie in my opinion.
Strong disagreement.

Firstly, superhero films generally do not expand the genre in a real meaningful way. They play it safe to appease its target demographics, and while they’re usually pretty fun, they’re largely disposable and frivolous. The lack of ambition should preclude them from awards consideration. The only superhero film that truly deserved Oscar glory was Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight, and that was one of the most infamous Oscar flubs in recent history.

Art house pictures have a luxury that Disney and superhero films simply don’t allow for: they are usually only beholden to the creative force behind the camera, whether it be the director or screenwriter (if they’re not the same person). No matter what kind of film we end of getting, it’s uniquely the filmmakers vision, for better or worse. The story can go to darker places and challenge audiences in ways that Disney will never be able to, and when something so profoundly unique comes across the audience‘s path, it’s worth respecting and propping up.

Few exemptions aside, superhero films are largely made by committee, and are largely the products of a grand story path, and no necessarily a great writer or visionary (Nolan, Gunn being two of the biggest outliers to this rule). I don’t believe that deserves the glory over something created that is much more personal and unique to that particular filmmaker.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Strong disagreement.

Firstly, superhero films generally do not expand the genre in a real meaningful way. They play it safe to appease its target demographics, and while they’re usually pretty fun, they’re largely disposable and frivolous. The lack of ambition should preclude them from awards consideration. The only superhero film that truly deserved Oscar glory was Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight, and that was one of the most infamous Oscar flubs in recent history.

Art house pictures have a luxury that Disney and superhero films simply don’t allow for: they are usually only beholden to the creative force behind the camera, whether it be the director or screenwriter (if they’re not the same person). No matter what kind of film we end of getting, it’s uniquely the filmmakers vision, for better or worse. The story can go to darker places and challenge audiences in ways that Disney will never be able to, and when something so profoundly unique comes across the audience‘s path, it’s worth respecting and propping up.

Few exemptions aside, superhero films are largely made by committee, and are largely the products of a grand story path, and no necessarily a great writer or visionary (Nolan, Gunn being two of the biggest outliers to this rule). I don’t believe that deserves the glory over something created that is much more personal and unique to that particular filmmaker.
Agree to disagree. Even by your standards, a superhero movie won't really get a look even if it deserves it. Like you said, Dark Knight was a snub, Logan deserved more. A lot of them are disposable and frivolous as you say. But some are not. Dark knight getting snubbed is because of that same type of attitude. I get it, movies like dark knight and Logan... are the exception. But when a great movie comes a long, it should get the recognition. Superhero or not.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Agree to disagree. Even by your standards, a superhero movie won't really get a look even if it deserves it. Like you said, Dark Knight was a snub, Logan deserved more. A lot of them are disposable and frivolous as you say. But some are not. Dark knight getting snubbed is because of that same type of attitude. I get it, movies like dark knight and Logan... are the exception. But when a great movie comes a long, it should get the recognition. Superhero or not.

I agree. I just don’t put Marvel films in that realm, and I’m happy the boldness of Joker has been given its just representation.
 
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