2024 NASCAR

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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
I need more races to comment judge the Package Vegas has. The package didn't do what was hyped by the media or NASCAR for this race. What I am referring to drafting Daytona or Talladega style. The restarts were great and a great finish. What I saw was Areo was king when you were in front or it was goodyear's tire not giving up enough during a run. When tires are over 20 laps older than the 2nd place driver, but can't pass there is a concern.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
artvandelay said:
Didn’t think it was an exciting race. Again, Hendrick cars disappoint, but Kurt Busch in Hendrick gear finishes top five for Gnassi.
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I did check out NASCAR's website and they are playing spin doctor from my view although they did say the rule package is a work in progress. They pointed out it is the highest amount lead changes for the spring race since 2016. The problem with that is pit strategy caused that. At the end of stage 1, Brad Stayed out. At the end of stage 2, Kurt stayed out. The other thing is there were drivers that stayed out longer before than some others like Daniel Suarez and William Byron.

Jimmie did finish in the top 10 in the first 2 segments before something happened in the last part of the race. I'm guessing they made wrong adjustments. That is the only thing I can think of.

At the same time, Jimmie was not the Hendrick with problems in the final segment.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
Since Kyle Busch won his 199th combined cup, Xfinity, and truck series race on Sunday, I'm giving my take.

I personally think Kyle is one of the best all time great talents in NASCAR, but the record in question is a whole different animal.

I don't think Kyle's 200th win shouldn't be compared to Richard Petty. Kyle only has 52 cup wins. Richard got all 200 wins in cup. The other thing is Richard raced in a hybrid time frame. 1972 was considered the start of the modern era for cup racing and Richard already had over a 100 plus cup wins already before that era started.

The 2nd thing is Kyle's accomplishment is overrated from a combined win standpoint. My reasoning is take a look at how NASCAR was when I first followed it in 1993. The truck series didn't exist yet and not a lot of cup driver. To put that in prospective, Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch are the only two cup regulars that has over 100 truck series starts. That means the accomplishment is not as big one thinks.

The what is now the Xfinity series had less companion races with the cup cars before we went in the 2000s. Mark Martin was one the big cup invaders going to the Busch series back in his era, but he only had 236 races in the Busch series compare to Kyle Busch having 347 Busch/Nationwide/Xfinity series.

NASCAR also basically erased data from the Xfinity series before 1982 except for who was the champions of that series from 1950 to 1981. There is very incomplete information on the Xfinity series for wins before 1982 and it is possible that Kyle Busch is not the career leader in wins in that series.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
NASCAR Hall of Fame announced 20 nominees for the 2020 class including 6 new nominees.

The 6 new nominees are Tony Stewart, the late Neil Bonnett, the late Marvin Panch, the late Jim Paschal, the late Sam Ard, and the late Red Vogt. Kirk Shelmerdine was dropped from the nominee list although it seems odd to me. I'll giving the details of the new nominees on a future post.

Kirk Shelmerdine also was one of the key people why RCR turned from also ran independent cup team into a Cup Championship threat. Kirk won 4 cup championships with Dale Sr. as his driver. While Dale Sr. returned to RCR in 1984 after brief stint in 1981 there, Kirk built up the 3 car between 1981 to the time Dale returned to RCR in 1984. Kirk turned RCR into a a race organization that was capable of winning a race due to what he did with Ricky Rudd the year before Rudd was replaced by Dale. What I mentioned is why thought Kirk being dropped off the nominee list is odd although I think could be due Kirk being a low profile.

I don't know the details on why Carl was not on the 2020 Nascar Hall of Fame Ballot. I do have a few guessing. Carl did retire young as a NASCAR driver. Why Carl retired as a driver and what he said during his retirement speech could be different things.

It is possible that some people on the Nominating committee has an ax to grind with him retiring so sudden. Carl also may not have liked the direction of NASCAR behind the scenes and decided to retire. There also were rumors for the first few days after Carl's retirement was caused by Arris paying Carl off to retire, so Daniel Suarez could race for Joe Gibbs Racing. If it involved a sponsoring paying Carl off to retire, it is possible that NASCAR doesn't want that to be known because it would be a black eye for the spot. Suarez didn't pan for JGR.

NASCAR also did announce the Landmark award nominees. The nominees are for NASCAR President Mike Helton, Alvin Hawkins- first NASCAR Flagman, Ralph Seagraves of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, Edsel Ford II of Ford Motor Co, and late Pocono Raceway founder Dr. Joseph Mattioli. Janet Guthrie was eliminated from the Landmark Nominee list. I think is need to be known that Mike Helton is on the NASCAR Hall of Fame nominating committee and that meant it is possible that Mike nominated himself for the Landmark award. What also needs to be known that Joseph Mattioli's daughter is on the Committee and is possible that she wanted her dad to be nominated for the NASCAR Hall of Fame Landmark award.


Ralph Seagraves is worthy because of what he did with NASCAR when he was with executive with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company doing stuff like funding race tracks to upgrade, help race teams find sponsors, and promote NASCAR. I know Ralph's product is caused lots of deaths, but he started one of the factors that caused NASCAR to be popular from a national standpoint for a time.

I wonder if there is hidden motive of why Janet Guthrie was dropped. Janet was of the big female drivers in Auto racing in the 1970s. She was influential in NASCAR by her racing there 33 times and was influenced other females to attempt to race in NASCAR before Danica Patrick. What I know is the media had been try to play it as Danica Patrick was the first female driver to influence girls to race in NASCAR despite it not being the case.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
I'm going to type about the 6 new nominees.

Stewart is a no brainer for the Hall of Fame.

The late Marvin Panch's resume gives the impression that he doesn't deserve a NASCAR hall of Fame ballot it due to only having 17 cup wins including the Daytona 500. The catch is he race part-time for most of his career. What also caused his low win totals was due to Ford. Back in 1957, Marvin finished 2nd in points with 6 cup wins, but Ford factory sponsorship pulled out of NASCAR with Marvin out of a ride. Marvin had less than 30 cup starts in the next 3 years as a result. Marvin Panch also was recognized as one of NASCAR's top 50 drivers of all time back in 1998. Marvin was one of the early great west coast race drivers NASCAR had.

The late Jim Paschal is considered of NASCAR's most underrated cup drivers of all time to the point that he wasn't even NASCAR's top 50 drivers of all time list despite having 25 cup wins. What made Jim's 25 cup wins impressive is from 1953 to 1967, he only raced more than 30 cup races a season 3 times. Jim was racing part time for for most of his cup career. Jim was racing the cup series in an era that there were 37 to 62 cup races a season. Jim I believe was the first NASCAR driver ever to win 2 World 600s aka now know as the Coca Cola 600. I think Jim got overlooked due to him not having a Daytona 500 win or a Southern 500 win.

The late Sam Ard was one of NASCAR's first great Busch series driver. Sam Ard's career was affected by a career ending crash in 1984. I don't know how many wins he had before 1982 due NASCAR's deleting records from the 1950 to 1981 time period.

Neil Bonnett is a debatable nominee pick. He has 18 cup wins. The deal with him is had the big major wins from his era except for the Daytona 500. Neil did amazing feat back in his era in winning back to back Coca Cola 600 races in a era that cup cars had problems lasting 600 miles in a race.

What hurt Neil to me was a combination of things including making the deadly mistake of making a racing comeback. People thought Neil's bones were make out of glass due to the amount of injuries he got. Neil raced in an era that had no safer barriers, no head and neck restraint, and no full face helmet. Neil raced in the 1970s and 1980s. Neil suffered a life threating crash at the Spring 1990 Darlington race and suffered dizziness and amnesia from that crash and he decided to end his retirement in late 1993 with him not following doctors orders. Neil became a race color commentator and was on his way being one of the finest broadcasters in NASCAR History, but his itch to race again ended that that with his Daytona practice death.

Neil also raced part time for part of his cup career along with him racing on cup schedules shorter than Jimmie Johnson Kyle Busch had through their entire career. Neil raced in a time that there only was 28 to 31 cup races a year compare to the current 36 cup race schedule.

Red Vogt is a worthy nominee. He was a mechanic that won the 1949 cup championship with Red Byron. What makes Red Vogt a worthy nominee is he actually started his racing career working on cars way before NASCAR existed. Red was involved in stock car racing since the 1930s. Red already was in his 40s when NASCAR was founded.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
The other 14 returning nominees are the following:
Buddy Baker - 19 career cup wins
Red Farmer - 1 time NASCAR modified series champ, 3 time What is know the Xfinity series champion, and has 700 to 900 career race wins:jawdrop:.
Ray Fox - engine builder, crew chief and car owner
Harry Gant - Has over 300 plus race wins including 18 in the cup series. Older driver ever to win a cup series race(older than Mark Martin).
Joe Gibbs - Active NASCAR owner
John Holman - co-owner of holman-Moody of a legendary cup organization that won that 96 cup races, and official racing contractor for Ford in NASCAR back in the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s.
Harry Hyde - 1970 cup winning crew chief, 56 career cup wins, responsible for Hendrick Motorsports first cup wins, and even a had a movie character based on him in Days of Thunders.
Bobby Labonte - 1991 Busch series champion and 2000 Cup series champion
Hershel Mcgriff - legendary West coast nascar driver, 4 career cup wins, and the oldest NASCAR driver ever to win a championship at the age of 59
Ralph Moody - won 5 times in the cup series and was co-owner of legendary race team Holman-Moody.
Larry Phillips - 5 time NASCAR weekly series champion and won over 340 wins
Ricky Rudd - 23 time cup winner including a race that he won with his eyes taped open
Mike Stefanik - 9 time NASCAR series champion
Waddell Wilson - Legendary engine builder and crew chief. His engines won over 100 cup races.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
I have a feeling that the 2020 NASCAR Hall of Fame Class is going to have Buddy Baker, Tony Stewart, Joe Gibbs, Bobby Labonte and Red Farmer.

I mentioned Buddy Baker only because he got very close for the 2019 class, although it is too early for him. I rather have Waddell Wilson than Buddy Baker at this point being inducted into the hall of fame.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
I found out that Janet Guthrie was not the only person to be dropped for the Landmark award. The Voice of NASCAR, Barney Hall also was dropped. I also shake my head about Barney Hall. Barney Hall was well known for being called the voice of NASCAR and was called of the best NASCAR commentators of all time.

Barney Hall was as important to NASCAR to announcing as Ken Squier. Ken was important as a television announcer for NASCAR and Barney Hall doing that on radio.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
While got his 200 NASCAR win today, it sounds like he wants 100 cup wins.

My thoughts on that is that really depends on the cup schedule in 2021 and rule packages on the cars along with the next gen cup car. Kyle has youth on his side for getting 100 cup wins since he's going to 34 in May and he's 47 cup wins away currently.

The NASCAR tracks contract with is over after 2020 and that means tracks can be replaced.

The current rule package caters to Kyle Busch at this time based on his extremely hot start to the season. When a driver has finishing average of 2.6 through the first five races, its extremely hard to outdo that.

I know NASCAR planning to use the next gen cup car in 2021.
 
Santa Raccoon 77

Santa Raccoon 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
Original Poster
I don't get the comparison to RP.
Sure he has won 200 races but he has had to do it over the 3 series whereas RP's wins all came in the top tier.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
Mr Ferret 88 said:
I don't get the comparison to RP.
Sure he has won 200 races but he has had to do it over the 3 series whereas RP's wins all came in the top tier.
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I don't get it either with the comparison to RP. Besides that, Richard Petty won 4 NASCAR races outside of cup.

The problem is the media has been making a big deal out of this such as Espn's headline of Kyle Busch tied Richard Petty's Record of 200 wins.

I consider Kyle Busch's stat a very overrated stat in terms of importance in racing. There are drivers in the history of NASCAR that had 200 wins in a lower series or in combined lower NASCAR series before such as Red Farmer, Harry Gant, and some others.

Having 200 wins in cup series is tougher than doing it combined before NASCAR finally did something the cup drivers racing to the Xfinity series and the trucks series.

The other thing it is impossible for anyone to reach Richard's 200 cup win record. Cup schedule's from 1960 to 1971 had anywhere from 44 cup races a season to 62 cup races a season.

I think 100 cup wins is the closest thing can be done unless NASCAR cuts down the amount of cup points races although it is not going be easy.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
artvandelay said:
If Hendrick is going to get an early season win, Martinsville is probably the last chance.
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Chase Elliott got close, but there needs to be some panic in the Hendrick camp. Jimmie has two top 10's, but finishing 24th at Martinsville is a huge problem. I consider Dover and Martinsville Jimmie's top two tracks.

Chad Knaus did not do William Byron any favors by his car flunking post qualifying inspection after qualifying 6th and they never recovered. I don't know how much of William's problems is him being rushed to cup and how much is by Hendrick struggling.

Alex Bowman is 16th in points, not having a top 10 is a concern. The fact he got his 3rd top 15th finish of the year is a concern.
 
artvandelay

artvandelay

Well-Known Member
wdwfan4ver said:
Chase Elliott got close, but there needs to be some panic in the Hendrick camp. Jimmie has two top 10's, but finishing 24th at Martinsville is a huge problem. I consider Dover and Martinsville Jimmie's top two tracks.

Chad Knaus did not do William Byron any favors by his car flunking post qualifying inspection after qualifying 6th and they never recovered. I don't know how much of William's problems is him being rushed to cup and how much is by Hendrick struggling.

Alex Bowman is 16th in points, not having a top 10 is a concern. The fact he got his 3rd top 15th finish of the year is a concern.
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I thought the same thing about Johnson. Even toward the end of Gordon’s career, when he wasn’t winning many races, a top 10 at Martinsville was a lock.

Six races this year, three for Penske and three for Gibbs.
 
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wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
artvandelay said:
I thought the same thing about Johnson. Even toward the end of Gordon’s career, when he wasn’t winning many races, a top 10 at Martinsville was a lock.

Six races this year, three for Penske and three for Gibbs.
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I think there is a big different between Jimmie and Jeff right now. I hate to say it, but the current rules package is Jimmie's problem because it does not fit Jimmie's driving style besides Hendrick being on the decline. The cup cars were heavier for most of Jimmie's cup career. When NASCAR started to take weight away from the cup cars. it started to affect Jimmie. The cup cars for Martinsville do have more downforce than last year.

This season, the races that aren't road course race and tracks bigger than 1 mile basically run a 550 horsepower engine instead of the 750 horsepower engine last season.

I mention weight of the cars because Jimmie was not a great cup prospect before he talked to Jeff Gordon for the new 4th Hendrick car. Jimmie Johnson in the Busch series had lighter cars with less horsepower than the cup cars and he was not exactly a great prospect as a stock car. Jimmie Johnson before the Busch series already had 2 years of stock car experience in ASA.

There would've been a win for Chip Ganassi racing at Atlanta except Kyle Larson made a pit road mistake.

I think the rule package this year has thrown teams for a loop with the larger spoiler though. When there is major rule changes to the cars or a new car, there is a possibility of a small amount of teams got an advantage just like what happened in 2008 for the first full year of Car of Tomorrow. Edwards, Kyle busch, and Jimmie Johnson won 24 out of 36 cup points races that year combined.
 

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