2023 attendance numbers are out

[Andrew25]

No lies detected.

And on the topic of DAK, why in the world do they insist on closing so early? It really is a beautiful park at night, yet nobody gets to experience it. Makes no sense to me.

A pure cost cutting move... and honestly makes sense financially unfortunately. DAK is my favorite park, and has the best nighttime experience, but it just can't get guests to stay late. People start to leave pretty early in the day, so closing at 6PM unfortunately makes sense.

 

[JusticeDisney]

A pure cost cutting move... and honestly makes sense financially unfortunately. DAK is my favorite park, and has the best nighttime experience, but it just can't get guests to stay late. People start to leave pretty early in the day, so closing at 6PM unfortunately makes sense.

I’m sure you’re right. And that really does suck.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

The fact that you think that the total number of visitors that each company draws to their parks does not matter unfortunately speaks volumes. I’ll just leave that there.

As for getting away from the point, it is you who entered this thread and tried to change the point. The point of this thread (and I know since I am the one who created it) was that, nothwithstanding all of this board’s resident Disney doom and gloomers, Disney still remains on top. And indeed, Disney’s parks went up in attendance over the last two years whereas Universal declined a significant 10% in each park.

Finally, and I don’t mean this disrespectfully, but your claim that it was unthinkable not too long ago shows that you don’t really know what you are talking about. The numbers from two years ago had both Universal parks beating 3 (or maybe it was 2, I can’t exactly remember) of the Disney parks. However, as I already stated, Universal’s attendance dropped and Disney’s did not from 2022 to 2023.

Look, nobody is disputing that Universal puts out great theme parks and have really raised their game over the past years. That said, they will always be number 2.

I am saying to you something very simple, don't be so sure that Disney will always be king. The unthinkable part I am talking about is looking at the 2009 attendance figures. You need to broaden your scope here and not just look at a 1-2 year trend. In 2009 it was laughed at that Universal would be as close as they are to Disney today. You never want to just rest on your laurels.

 

[bwr827]

Outside table service, Universal is pretty event with WDW pricing.

Not so. Here’s my real-life example for an upcoming trip:

WDW:
- 5 nights at All-Star Sports
- 4 x 4-day park tickets with “free”parkhopper
- $3400 USD

Universal:
- 6 nights at Cabana Bay (superior hotel)
- 4 x 5-day park-to-park tickets
- $2200 USD

 

[Lilofan]

A pure cost cutting move... and honestly makes sense financially unfortunately. DAK is my favorite park, and has the best nighttime experience, but it just can't get guests to stay late. People start to leave pretty early in the day, so closing at 6PM unfortunately makes sense.

One of the years on NYE shortly after DAK opened Disney had a NYE fireworks show and all guests were viewing in the parking lot. It turned out to be a disaster in that when the fireworks went off the animals went haywire. DAK never had another NYE fireworks.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I am saying to you something very simple, don't be so sure that Disney will always be king. The unthinkable part I am talking about is looking at the 2009 attendance figures. You need to broaden your scope here and not just look at a 1-2 year trend. In 2009 it was laughed at that Universal would be as close as they are to Disney today. You never want to just rest on your laurels.

And I’m telling you something very simple. People have been predicting that Universal is going to surpass Disney for years. And those same people have been wrong every time. Universal is awesome, but they are never going to surpass Disney in the theme park world. Period.

As for resting on laurels, maybe you missed D23 a couple weeks ago?

 

[Andrew25]

There is 100% exaggeration from the fan community when it comes to Universal's dominance over these past few years. MK will always be received as "the" park to visit in Orlando. However, Universal can definitely compete with the remaining WDW parks.

WDW will always be the #1 destination, Universal has yet to match some of WDW's top hotels.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

Some very obnoxious posts here. It'd be nice to have a real conversation about these numbers. (Are we forgetting that all the parks work with the TEA to massage these? They are in no way accurate.)

Yeah, that's what I found to be suspicious. I live 30 minutes from Magic Kingdom and go to WDW parks fairly often (once or twice a month at minimum) but made 9 trips out to Disneyland last year. That park (and DCA) were significantly busier than Magic Kingdom on every trip I made and the WDW parks had an unusually slow May, June and early July last year. I think Spring Break and Fall attendance were pretty strong, but I have serious doubts that Magic Kingdom exceeded DL numbers when its summer was notably slow. I'm not sure if I believe the numbers and if Disney is providing estimations to TEA, then I think they may be purposefully misleading. Not that TEA should be considered fact by shareholders, but I think it would bring closer scrutiny on how the company is presenting its numbers in its quarterly reports.

The last report was also really strange to me because I think that they managed to hide how low attendance has been this summer too, which is noticeably even lower in the parks than last year. Maybe 4 million less people from 2019 feels like empty parks because it's been overcrowded for so long, but from what I've observed, I think it's misleading manipulation of the data, using DLR and others around the world to hide a drop-off at WDW in what should have been similar to what Universal reported.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Yeah, that's what I found to be suspicious. I live 30 minutes from Magic Kingdom and go to WDW parks fairly often (once or twice a month at minimum) but made 9 trips out to Disneyland last year. That park (and DCA) were significantly busier than Magic Kingdom on every trip I made and the WDW parks had an unusually slow May, June and early July last year. I think Spring Break and Fall attendance were pretty strong, but I have serious doubts that Magic Kingdom exceeded DL numbers when its summer was notably slow. I'm not sure if I believe the numbers and if Disney is providing estimations to TEA, then I think they may be purposefully misleading. Not that TEA should be considered fact by shareholders, but I think it would bring closer scrutiny on how the company is presenting its numbers in its quarterly reports.

The last report was also really strange to me because I think that they managed to hide how low attendance has been this summer too, which is noticeably even lower in the parks than last year. Maybe 4 million less people from 2019 feels like empty parks because it's been overcrowded for so long, but from what I've observed, I think it's misleading manipulation of the data, using DLR and others around the world to hide a drop-off at WDW in what should have been similar to what Universal reported.

So you think they overestimated Disney’s numbers but not Universal’s? Lol!

Also, what would low attendance this summer have to do with 2023 attendance figures?

 

[Walt Disney1955]

And I’m telling you something very simple. People have been predicting that Universal is going to surpass Disney for years. And those same people have been wrong every time. Universal is awesome, but they are never going to surpass Disney in the theme park world. Period.

As for resting on laurels, maybe you missed D23 a couple weeks ago?

Well they did double their guest totals. So it hasn't surpassed Disney yet. But 15 years ago you wouldn't think they'd be this similar either.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Well they did double their guest totals. So it hasn't surpassed Disney yet. But 15 years ago you wouldn't think they'd be this similar either.

They are not “even steven,” no matter how many times you try to say that. WDW had about two and a half times as many guests as Universal. Sorry, but that’s not close.

Also, in an effort to try to claim that the two companies are “even steven” you keep removing MK from the equation, which is ridiculous. And even if you do eliminate MK, Disney still had 50% more guests than Universal at the remaining parks.

Disney = Coke
Universal = Pepsi

 

[bwr827]

Yeah, that's what I found to be suspicious. I live 30 minutes from Magic Kingdom and go to WDW parks fairly often (once or twice a month at minimum) but made 9 trips out to Disneyland last year. That park (and DCA) were significantly busier than Magic Kingdom on every trip I made and the WDW parks had an unusually slow May, June and early July last year. I think Spring Break and Fall attendance were pretty strong, but I have serious doubts that Magic Kingdom exceeded DL numbers when its summer was notably slow. I'm not sure if I believe the numbers and if Disney is providing estimations to TEA, then I think they may be purposefully misleading. Not that TEA should be considered fact by shareholders, but I think it would bring closer scrutiny on how the company is presenting its numbers in its quarterly reports.

The last report was also really strange to me because I think that they managed to hide how low attendance has been this summer too, which is noticeably even lower in the parks than last year. Maybe 4 million less people from 2019 feels like empty parks because it's been overcrowded for so long, but from what I've observed, I think it's misleading manipulation of the data, using DLR and others around the world to hide a drop-off at WDW in what should have been similar to what Universal reported.

No personal offense to you, but your idea is we should ignore an industry report that everyone was looking forward to and instead go by your anecdotal experience?

 

[Two Ears]

No surprise, but Disney remains the one and only king. Disney has the 4 top parks in North America, with WDW holding 3 of those spots. In addition to that, each of Universal’s 2 Florida parks were down almost 10% from the year prior. Yikes.

Those numbers seem weird to me because I could swear that I have seen the so called “experts” here saying over and over how Universal is surpassing Disney.

You get universal has just about completed a shiny new park right and thats why everyone is saying universal has caught up and may surpass them?

its the numbers in 2026 that will tell the story.

 

[JusticeDisney]

You get universal has just about completed a shiny new park right and thats why everyone is saying universal has caught up and may surpass them?

its the numbers in 2026 that will tell the story.

Have you been reading these boards? That’s hardly the reason why people have been claiming that Universal will take over.

But since you brought it up, even in 2026 Disney will have more visitors. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Andrew25]

I say the following as a huge Universal fan, as evident by my profile pic, but Universal has lost significant momentum the last 2 years now.

Ignoring attendance, their Mardi Gras event has declined a bit (food ops continue to suck) and the concerts are no longer popular as they once were. Universal has been raising prices at hotels and they love to have shorter park hours than anyone else.

Throughout Covid, just like Disney, they also lacked maintenance in some attractions, not giving substantial investment until late last year.

Epic Universe will bring in large numbers to Orlando, artificially inflating WDW attendance a bit and the other 2 UOR parks. And as excited as I am for Epic, USF and IOA need a substantial investment, not just in attractions but entertainment and aesthetic overhauls (USF specifically)

 

[Poseidon Quest]

So you think they overestimated Disney’s numbers but not Universal’s? Lol!

Where do they get the numbers from?

Also, what would low attendance this summer have to do with 2023 attendance figures?

How do you think low summer attendance would affect yearly figures?

No personal offense to you, but your idea is we should ignore an industry report that everyone was looking forward to and instead go by your anecdotal experience?

I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I doubt that Magic Kingdom seeing less than 25,000 people a day over a historically busy period results in these kinds of numbers.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Where do they get the numbers from?



How do you think low summer attendance would affect yearly figures?



I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I doubt that Magic Kingdom seeing less than 25,000 people a day over a historically busy period results in these kinds of numbers.

So you think 2024 summer numbers are reflected in 2023 yearly numbers?

 

[Walt Disney1955]

They are not “even steven,” no matter how many times you try to say that. WDW had about two and a half times as many guests as Universal. Sorry, but that’s not close.

Also, in an effort to try to claim that the two companies are “even steven” you keep removing MK from the equation, which is ridiculous. And even if you do eliminate MK, Disney still had 50% more guests than Universal at the remaining parks.

Disney = Coke
Universal = Pepsi

I said on average they are even without the MK. Something impossible you'd have thought just 15 years ago. Even less. You realize they have 2 parks, so we all know on sheer raw numbers overall they can't win, I am simply talking about average. How on earth do I have to keep replying to the same thing? And this is not taking into account the much anticipated park next year.

 

[TalkToEthan]

Outside table service, Universal is pretty event with WDW pricing.

……just curious but I suppose there is an obvious answer where I’m one of the few who truly doesn’t know

…..so which one are you saying is pricier for sit downs? I’ve dined at both in multiple locations(maybe 6 at Universal and perhaps 20+ at WDW) and neither one jumps out at me as being noticeably more expensive than the other.


In full disclosure we did ring the bell at California Grill one evening—- the most money I’ve ever spent on a two person dine out by far in my entire life and that’s after hopping around continents 10 plus times——but in fairness Universal doesn’t have anything of that caliber as far as I know.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I said on average they are even without the MK. Something impossible you'd have thought just 15 years ago. Even less. You realize they have 2 parks, so we all know on sheer raw numbers overall they can't win, I am simply talking about average. How on earth do I have to keep replying to the same thing? And this is not taking into account the much anticipated park next year.

I could ask you the same thing.

Average attendance is totally and completely irrelevant. The total number of visitors is what matters. The fact that you think that we should just remove Disney’s top park from the equation and then average the remaining parks together shows a fundamental misunderstanding on your part.

Here, we can make this very simple. Based on the 2023 numbers, which company would you rather be? If you say anything other than Disney, I hope you never get anywhere near running or leading a business.