2023 attendance numbers are out

[Walt Disney1955]

You don’t average the numbers. You add them. Just like you don’t remove the top parks from the equation. Anyway, 20% more in attendance (which is what Epcot had over each of the Uni parks) is not even steven.

Also, why are you bringing up Epic? I mean, under your logic, Epic will have to be removed from the equation just like MK and DL, right?

What is wrong with averaging the numbers with the parks? Epcot had double the amount of people in 2009 as Universal Studios did. It had more than double the guests from Islands of Adventure. It should be a concern that both Universal parks have doubled their guests while Epcot has remained the same as well as other Disney parks - even Magic Kingdom is the same from 2009. Basically what is happening now is that if Disney and Universal would be playing a sport against one another they would relatively be the same except for that big tall kid that dominates all over the place (Magic Kindgom) and is the reason Universal can never win. Don't rest on your laurels with things. Disney is clinging to 1st place right now.

 

[JusticeDisney]

What is wrong with averaging the numbers with the parks? Epcot had double the amount of people in 2009 as Universal Studios did. It had more than double the guests from Islands of Adventure. It should be a concern that both Universal parks have doubled their guests while Epcot has remained the same as well as other Disney parks - even Magic Kingdom is the same from 2009. Basically what is happening now is that if Disney and Universal would be playing a sport against one another they would relatively be the same except for that big tall kid that dominates all over the place (Magic Kindgom) and is the reason Universal can never win. Don't rest on your laurels with things. Disney is clinging to 1st place right now.

Right. The Patriots sucked…..as long as you removed Tom Brady from the team.

Numbers don’t lie, my friend. Uni went backwards last year and WDW did not. Those are the simple facts.

 

[Andrew C]

Numbers don’t lie, my friend. Uni went backwards last year and WDW did not. Those are the simple facts.

Come on now. It is anything but simple. You cannot just ignore all the circumstances, and not drill down into the details, in order to prove a point. Well, you can, but it is kind of silly.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Come on now. It is anything but simple. You cannot just ignore all the circumstances, and not drill down into the details, in order to prove a point. Well, you can, but it is kind of silly.

The numbers are what the numbers are. WDW had 3 parks more attended than either of Universal’s parks. Nothing silly about that, unless of course someone is a Uni fanboy.

 

[Andrew C]

The numbers are what the numbers are.

Sure, but to then put blinders on so you don't see anything else except one data point....

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Right. The Patriots sucked…..as long as you removed Tom Brady from the team.

Numbers don’t lie, my friend. Uni went backwards last year and WDW did not. Those are the simple facts.

In 2009/10 I can distinctly remember people being laughed at because Potter might boost Universal. Is anyone laughing about that now? You have two Florida Universal parks outperforming a Disney park. 15 years ago this wasn't even CLOSE to happening, not even with Animal Kingdom. You can't just keep ignoring it.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Sure, but then to put blinders on so you don't see anything else except one data point....

Look, I found the numbers interesting as this board is littered with people who have for years been claiming that Universal is moving ahead of Disney. They are not now and they never will. That doesn’t mean Universal doesn’t have phenomenal parks, because they do. It just means they are never going to be as popular as Disney, despite what some of the “experts” on this board wish and hope for.

 

[JusticeDisney]

In 2009/10 I can distinctly remember people being laughed at because Potter might boost Universal. Is anyone laughing about that now? You have two Florida Universal parks outperforming a Disney park. 15 years ago this wasn't even CLOSE to happening, not even with Animal Kingdom. You can't just keep ignoring it.

They had nowhere to go but up. But don’t get me wrong, Universal has done an awesome job over the years and they put out a great product. That said, they will never be Disney and these latest numbers are just further proof of that.

Outperforming? I thought they were even steven, according to you? Oh, I see, so when Epcot has 2 million more visitors that is even steven, but when Uni has about 200,000 more visitors that is outperforming. Right. Gotcha.

 

[TalkToEthan]

…….that Universal is moving ahead of Disney. They are not now and they never will.

I’d be a bit more careful with that as the future holds too much uncertainty

 

[JusticeDisney]

I’d be a bit more careful with that as the future holds too much uncertainty

Nah, I’ll stick by what I said. If the future proves me wrong at some point, I will be the first to admit it.

 

[TalkToEthan]

Nah, I’ll stick by what I said.

I like it!! You mean what you say and you say what you mean

 

[Skip]

Some very obnoxious posts here. It'd be nice to have a real conversation about these numbers. (Are we forgetting that all the parks work with the TEA to massage these? They are in no way accurate.)

 

[JIMINYCR]

I'm sure Disney will be just fine with EU opening. But with each year that passes, fewer and fewer kids are developing a nostalgia for those old Disney films. I do think that over time kids will feel more connected to characters from Nintendo than characters from Disney movies.

Possible, but then again Disney isnt staying stagnant. They are continually putting out new characters and films which build a bridge to connect young kids to the Disney brand. It comes down to the likability of the characters and the connection they bring.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Some very obnoxious posts here. It'd be nice to have a real conversation about these numbers. (Are we forgetting that all the parks work with the TEA to massage these? They are in no way accurate.)

Can you elaborate?

 

[Walt Disney1955]

They had nowhere to go but up. But don’t get me wrong, Universal has done an awesome job over the years and they put out a great product. That said, they will never be Disney and these latest numbers are just further proof of that.

Outperforming? I thought they were even steven, according to you? Oh, I see, so when Epcot has 2 million more visitors that is even steven, but when Uni has about 200,000 more visitors that is outperforming. Right. Gotcha.

They are essentially even steven when you take away Magic Kingdom. The 3 remaining Disney Parks vs. the two Universal Parks are pretty much the same average number. When I say they are outperforming a Disney Park it isn't hard to see which one they both have larger numbers than and that is Animal Kingdom. All I am saying is that 15 years ago it wasn't even close, now there is a major Disney park that they are outperforming.

 

[JusticeDisney]

They are essentially even steven when you take away Magic Kingdom. The 3 remaining Disney Parks vs. the two Universal Parks are pretty much the same average number. When I say they are outperforming a Disney Park it isn't hard to see which one they both have larger numbers than and that is Animal Kingdom. All I am saying is that 15 years ago it wasn't even close, now there is a major Disney park that they are outperforming.

If, for example, 1 company has 5 venues and each one draws 10 million visitors, and another company has 1 venue which draws 10 million visitors, literally nobody with even the slightest business or common sense at all would call those two companies even steven based on the fact that their average was the same.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

If, for example, 1 company has 5 venues and each one draws 10 million visitors, and another company has 1 venue which draws 10 million visitors, literally nobody with even the slightest business or common sense at all would call those two companies even steven based on the fact that their average was the same.

It doesn't really matter, this is why you use the average metric here, Universal only has two parks. People go to WDW and do all 4 parks, people can't do 4 parks at Universal they can only do two. Anyway, you are getting away from the point, the point is that Universal has made up a ton of ground over the years to the point where both of them outdraw a Disney park. This was unthinkable not too long ago.

 

[JusticeDisney]

It doesn't really matter, this is why you use the average metric here, Universal only has two parks. People go to WDW and do all 4 parks, people can't do 4 parks at Universal they can only do two. Anyway, you are getting away from the point, the point is that Universal has made up a ton of ground over the years to the point where both of them outdraw a Disney park. This was unthinkable not too long ago.

The fact that you think that the total number of visitors that each company draws to their parks does not matter unfortunately speaks volumes. I’ll just leave that there.

As for getting away from the point, it is you who entered this thread and tried to change the point. The point of this thread (and I know since I am the one who created it) was that, nothwithstanding all of this board’s resident Disney doom and gloomers, Disney still remains on top. And indeed, Disney’s parks went up in attendance over the last two years whereas Universal declined a significant 10% in each park.

Finally, and I don’t mean this disrespectfully, but your claim that it was unthinkable not too long ago shows that you don’t really know what you are talking about. The numbers from two years ago had both Universal parks beating 3 (or maybe it was 2, I can’t exactly remember) of the Disney parks. However, as I already stated, Universal’s attendance dropped and Disney’s did not from 2022 to 2023.

Look, nobody is disputing that Universal puts out great theme parks and have really raised their game over the past years. That said, they will always be number 2.

 

[Andrew25]

Universal is much more affordable and yet they declined 10%.

Outside table service, Universal is pretty event with WDW pricing.

Some of the Universal fans would tell you attendance is down due to Epic not yet open ( but there is pretty much near zero advertising on this multi billion dollar park.).

Universal's marketing/PR team is the absolute worst. They had significant additions this year in the parade & nighttime show to advertise for the summer... and we didn't hear much about it until a week before it's debut. Disney would have had a marketing campaign in advance to promote summer bookings.

And if rumors of Universal requiring multi-day tickets to attend Epic Universe is true, they are committing a travesty.


I think 2023 and 2024 have proven to me (and Universal) that they can't get away without major investment into the parks. IOA's attendance decline I believe came from a lack of interest in people purchasing multi-day tickets since USF is in a bad state at the moment.

USF hasn't had a substantial addition since Diagon in 2014, everything else has been duds or flat. (I say this as someone who actually likes Fallon).

Also, let's not pretend to ignore the unfortunate decline in DAK and how poorly it's recovered since Covid.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Outside table service, Universal is pretty event with WDW pricing.


Universal's marketing/PR team is the absolute worst. They had significant additions this year in the parade & nighttime show to advertise for the summer... and we didn't hear much about it until a week before it's debut. Disney would have had a marketing campaign in advance to promote summer bookings.

And if rumors of Universal requiring multi-day tickets to attend Epic Universe is true, they are committing a travesty.


I think 2023 and 2024 have proven to me (and Universal) that they can't get away without major investment into the parks. IOA's attendance decline I believe came from a lack of interest in people purchasing multi-day tickets since USF is in a bad state at the moment.

USF hasn't had a substantial addition since Diagon in 2014, everything else has been duds or flat. (I say this as someone who actually likes Fallon).

Also, let's not pretend to ignore the unfortunate decline in DAK and how poorly it's recovered since Covid.

No lies detected.

And on the topic of DAK, why in the world do they insist on closing so early? It really is a beautiful park at night, yet nobody gets to experience it. Makes no sense to me.