2023 attendance numbers are out

[JusticeDisney]

No surprise, but Disney remains the one and only king. Disney has the 4 top parks in North America, with WDW holding 3 of those spots. In addition to that, each of Universal’s 2 Florida parks were down almost 10% from the year prior. Yikes.

Those numbers seem weird to me because I could swear that I have seen the so called “experts” here saying over and over how Universal is surpassing Disney.

 

[DLR92]

Universal Japan suppress Tokyo Disneyland for once.
We shall see how 2024 will fare with Disney outcomes.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Those numbers seem weird to me because I could swear that I have seen the so called “experts” here saying over and over how Universal is surpassing Disney.

I haven’t seen anyone say that, only that Universal is a rising competitor.

2023 numbers for Orlando looked ok, although reports of resorts going unoccupied and wide open dining didn’t really start until the late fall of 2023, and gained momentum in 2024.

I don’t think the sky is falling for Disney or anything, but to me signs do point to softening attendance.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I haven’t seen anyone say that, only that Universal is a rising competitor.

2023 numbers for Orlando looked ok, although reports of resorts going unoccupied and wide open dining didn’t really start until the late fall of 2023, and gained momentum in 2024.

I don’t think the sky is falling for Disney or anything, but to me signs do point to softening attendance.

Oh, there are plenty of people who have been claiming that BS here for quite some time now. As for the decline in attendance, I totally agree with you. Numbers are definitely trending down. The thing is, the numbers are going down for both Disney and universal, contrary to what some people around here would try to have you believe.

 

[TalkToEthan]

No surprise, but Disney remains the one and only king.

 

[TalkToEthan]

Ok, now to be serious…

Yes, Disney—-as expected—remains the true king of pop(ulation). And I fully expect it to continue even well after Epic opens.

 

[bwr827]

Universal is much more affordable and yet they declined 10%.

 

[Lilofan]

Universal is much more affordable and yet they declined 10%.

Some of the Universal fans would tell you attendance is down due to Epic not yet open ( but there is pretty much near zero advertising on this multi billion dollar park.).

 

[TalkToEthan]

Universal is much more affordable and yet they declined 10%.

Much more affordable….hmmmm?

I’m under the impression that:

Park tickets are effectively the same
Lodging costs more at Disney
Parking is same price
Food costs approx same
merch costs approx same

 

[JusticeDisney]

Much more affordable….hmmmm?

I’m under the impression that:

Park tickets are effectively the same
Lodging costs more at Disney
Parking is same price
Food costs approx same
merch costs approx same

And don’t forget about the express pass that can literally cost as much as $250 (if not more) per person depending on the day. Can you even imagine what some of the resident board WDW haters would be doing if Disney did that? They would honestly stroke out.

 

[Mr. Pusskers]

I honestly feel the Disney haters has already stroked out. Good news to hear for Disney. Honestly, I want WDW to go back to what made them the best, World Class Service. A vacation experience like no other. Every time I have gone to WDW I just feel so connected to the place. Universal is getting really good with their parks. The only thing they don't have is that magic that stays with one while staying at Disney Resorts. That to me is key and one of the reasons I stay on WDW properties/Resorts when I go on vacation. Staying at a WDW Resort takes me away from an everyday living and gives me that special feeling of truly getting away from it all.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I honestly feel the Disney haters has already stroked out. Good news to hear for Disney. Honestly, I want WDW to go back to what made them the best, World Class Service. A vacation experience like no other. Every time I have gone to WDW I just feel so connected to the place. Universal is getting really good with their parks. The only thing they don't have is that magic that stays with one while staying at Disney Resorts. That to me is key and one of the reasons I stay on WDW properties/Resorts when I go on vacation. Staying at a WDW Resort takes me away from an everyday living and gives me that special feeling of truly getting away from it all.

Theres still value and quality at Dis despite the naysayers constant criticism. We visit Dis more than Uni and both give us a different thrill. I think Dis has that nostalgic grip on us and despite the change of admin, Walts vibe remains with us. Throughout our time at WDW we feel connected to all the old films, characters and themes. There is no Mr. Uni or the same remembrance of connection that Dis has. Dis will remain on top and yes they will feel some pain when Epic opens but they have nothing to fear of Unis threatening impending take over no matter how good Epic is.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Theres still value and quality at Dis despite the naysayers constant criticism. We visit Dis more than Uni and both give us a different thrill. I think Dis has that nostalgic grip on us and despite the change of admin, Walts vibe remains with us. Throughout our time at WDW we feel connected to all the old films, characters and themes. There is no Mr. Uni or the same remembrance of connection that Dis has. Dis will remain on top and yes they will feel some pain when Epic opens but they have nothing to fear of Unis threatening impending take over no matter how good Epic is.

That is what keeps all of us coming back, the feel and the nostalgia. They do seem to stomp on that a lot these days. I wish they would look at the "Once Upon a Studio" video more often and continue to use that as inspiration for how to work the parks. Because when Disney actually embraces their history, there is simply no other equals. They still capture the fans the way they always have. It is this nonsense of being ashamed or scared of their history and accomplishments that the modern crew does that ruin it for them.

 

[drizgirl]

Theres still value and quality at Dis despite the naysayers constant criticism. We visit Dis more than Uni and both give us a different thrill. I think Dis has that nostalgic grip on us and despite the change of admin, Walts vibe remains with us. Throughout our time at WDW we feel connected to all the old films, characters and themes. There is no Mr. Uni or the same remembrance of connection that Dis has. Dis will remain on top and yes they will feel some pain when Epic opens but they have nothing to fear of Unis threatening impending take over no matter how good Epic is.

I'm sure Disney will be just fine with EU opening. But with each year that passes, fewer and fewer kids are developing a nostalgia for those old Disney films. I do think that over time kids will feel more connected to characters from Nintendo than characters from Disney movies.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

So here is the thing with the attendance numbers. It hasn't changed much, Magic Kingdom is still the park that is carrying the weight for WDW. Disneyland is the one out west. But man, you take away the two flagship parks and it is even steven for 2023.

Magic Kingdom - 17.72 million
Disneyland - 17.25
Epcot - 11.98
DHS - 10.30
Islands of Adventure - 10.00
California Adventure - 10.00
Universal Studios - 9.75
Universal Hollywood - 9.66
Animal Kingdom - 8.77

Then a big drop as the #10 spot is Sea World Orlando at 4.34 million. So I would say they don't have to worry about that.

But as for Disney, is that comforting? It is basically a coin flip if you remove Disneyland and Magic Kingdom from each coast. Universal is just as popular on both coasts as the remaining Disney parks.

Here is where I would be concerned if I were in Disney's shoes. The 2023 might make them relax, but it shouldn't. Because just for fun check out the 2009 attendance figures:

Magic Kingdom - 17.23 million
Disneyland - 15.9
Epcot - 10.9
DHS - 9.7
Animal Kingdom - 9.59
California Adventure - 6.09
Sea World - 5.80
Universal Studios Florida - 5.53
Islands of Adventure - 4.62
Universal Studios Hollywood - 4.30

And this follows with the usual parks getting 4 million or less after this.

So when people said back in 2009 (and I remember) "Oh once the Potter expansion happens Disney needs to be worried", well..................do the math yourself. Nothing has changed in 15 years for the Disney parks, all three Universal parks have doubled. The saving grace is Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, and they practically trip over themselves changing it up to be something that they think the fans want. But they gut Splash Mountain, take the charm out of the parks with other things like gutting Tom Sawyer Island, and turn classic rides into meet and greets. People go to those parks because they are different than the rest, they do not want them to be like the rest, that's the point. So yeah, I'd be worried now if I were Disney. Universal has closed in on them A LOT in 15 years and their castle parks that they can't leave alone are what keeps them #1.

 

[JusticeDisney]

So here is the thing with the attendance numbers. It hasn't changed much, Magic Kingdom is still the park that is carrying the weight for WDW. Disneyland is the one out west. But man, you take away the two flagship parks and it is even steven for 2023.

Magic Kingdom - 17.72 million
Disneyland - 17.25
Epcot - 11.98
DHS - 10.30
Islands of Adventure - 10.00
California Adventure - 10.00
Universal Studios - 9.75
Universal Hollywood - 9.66
Animal Kingdom - 8.77

Then a big drop as the #10 spot is Sea World Orlando at 4.34 million. So I would say they don't have to worry about that.

But as for Disney, is that comforting? It is basically a coin flip if you remove Disneyland and Magic Kingdom from each coast. Universal is just as popular on both coasts as the remaining Disney parks.

Here is where I would be concerned if I were in Disney's shoes. The 2023 might make them relax, but it shouldn't. Because just for fun check out the 2009 attendance figures:

Magic Kingdom - 17.23 million
Disneyland - 15.9
Epcot - 10.9
DHS - 9.7
Animal Kingdom - 9.59
California Adventure - 6.09
Sea World - 5.80
Universal Studios Florida - 5.53
Islands of Adventure - 4.62
Universal Studios Hollywood - 4.30

And this follows with the usual parks getting 4 million or less after this.

So when people said back in 2009 (and I remember) "Oh once the Potter expansion happens Disney needs to be worried", well..................do the math yourself. Nothing has changed in 15 years for the Disney parks, all three Universal parks have doubled. The saving grace is Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, and they practically trip over themselves changing it up to be something that they think the fans want. But they gut Splash Mountain, take the charm out of the parks with other things like gutting Tom Sawyer Island, and turn classic rides into meet and greets. People go to those parks because they are different than the rest, they do not want them to be like the rest, that's the point. So yeah, I'd be worried now if I were Disney. Universal has closed in on them A LOT in 15 years and their castle parks that they can't leave alone are what keeps them #1.

First off, you don’t just remove the two big parks. That’s like saying Mercedes is not that great of a car company if you remove the S class. LOL!

Secondly, they most certainly are not “even steven” when considering just the remaining parks. You can’t forget that WDW has 3 remaining parks to Uni’s 2. So even looking at just those parks, WDW out drew Uni by around 10 million people. Sorry, but that’s not even by any metric.

Thirdly, Uni’s parks dropped almost 10% each in attendance. WDW parks either went up or dropped a much lower percentage than that.

Any way you slice these numbers, Disney remains the Coke to Universal’s Pepsi. Facts.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I'm sure Disney will be just fine with EU opening. But with each year that passes, fewer and fewer kids are developing a nostalgia for those old Disney films. I do think that over time kids will feel more connected to characters from Nintendo than characters from Disney movies.

But they are developing a nostalgia for the newer Disney films, such as Frozen, Moana, Inside Out, etc. And that doesn’t even take into account the prequels/sequels that will draw another whole generation to movies like Toy Story and Lion King.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

First off, you don’t just remove the two big parks. That’s like saying Mercedes is not that great of a car company if you remove the S class. LOL!

Secondly, they most certainly are not “even steven” when considering just the remaining parks. You can’t forget that WDW has 3 remaining parks to Uni’s 2. So even looking at just those parks, WDW out drew Uni by around 10 million people. Sorry, but that’s not even by any metric.

Thirdly, Uni’s parks dropped almost 10% each in attendance. WDW parks either went up or dropped a much lower percentage than that.

Any way you slice these numbers, Disney remains the Coke to Universal’s Pepsi. Facts.

WDW has three non MK parks to Universal's two parks. Those three parks and Universals two parks draw basically the EXACT same average of guests per park. Ditto for California Adventure vs. Universal Hollywood. So yes, the two castle parks are doing the heavy lifting. Say whatever you want, but there isn't even Epic Universe here yet and the remaining parks are even. More concerning should be the post I had that showed the difference between 2009 and 2023. Universal has made a ton of ground since then.

 

[JusticeDisney]

WDW has three non MK parks to Universal's two parks. Those three parks and Universals two parks draw basically the EXACT same average of guests per park. Ditto for California Adventure vs. Universal Hollywood. So yes, the two castle parks are doing the heavy lifting. Say whatever you want, but there isn't even Epic Universe here yet and the remaining parks are even. More concerning should be the post I had that showed the difference between 2009 and 2023. Universal has made a ton of ground since then.

You don’t average the numbers. You add them. Just like you don’t remove the top parks from the equation. Anyway, 20% more in attendance (which is what Epcot had over each of the Uni parks) is not even steven.

Also, why are you bringing up Epic? I mean, under your logic, Epic will have to be removed from the equation just like MK and DL, right?

 

[Andrew C]

Much more affordable….hmmmm?

I’m under the impression that:

Park tickets are effectively the same
Lodging costs more at Disney
Parking is same price
Food costs approx same
merch costs approx same

If you don't count all the promos and special vacation package deals that Universal offers....