News 2021 Theme Index

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Either way, I am all for increased competition so I see Uni gaining in market share as a good thing. Typically it benefits the consumer, or in this case, the guest.

…it really SHOULD be

 

[Dranth]

It’s 50/50

On one hand…not hitting the cap across property is empirical evidence that the cap hasn’t “turned anyone away”

On the other hand…the hassle of reservations has likely deterred “some”.

Those not too terribly committed though

I was turned away earlier this year while staying on site so it does happen. Who knows how often, and I know they try and work with people to get them in but I got to experience it first hand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was turned away earlier this year while staying on site so it does happen. Who knows how often, and I know they try and work with people to get them in but I got to experience it first hand.

I’m curious…how did that go down?

i was thinking if there is at least one park available a day or two out…usually Epcot…then the cap likely hasn’t been met to a significant degree.

 

[Dranth]

I’m curious…how did that go down?

i was thinking if there is at least one park available a day or two out…usually Epcot…then the cap likely hasn’t been met to a significant degree.

My own fault for not having a Res but I figured at least one park would have an opening that morning. Turns out no. We ended up spending a good hour+ with an awesome cast member at the front desk of the resort working to get us in somewhere. She ended up getting us a refund for one day of our tickets so wasn't a big deal. We ended up buying overpriced pins, eating a lot of food and spending an unhealthy amount of time floating around a pool that day.

 

[el_super]

On one hand…not hitting the cap across property is empirical evidence that the cap hasn’t “turned anyone away”

That doesn't seem entirely accurate either. If you have Saturday free and want to go, but there are no reservations available, you don't suddenly have Monday free to visit. If you purposefully restrict entries on the busiest days... You can lose out on clicks even if your whole week is open.

Admittedly though this would have a far greater impact to spontaneous visits from locals, but by all accounts that was the group they were targeting the most for reduction.

It's that unfavorable attendance mix all over again.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

One thing I always wonder when I hear about Disney being dethroned is if it‘s even possible for any of the other parks to accommodate as many guests as MK and/or DL?

Could EP, AK, HS, USF, IOA, DCA, etc even physically accommodate 20 million guests a year? They are are all around 9-12 million now but they appear near capacity already, could any of them realistically add 8 million more guests a year purely from a logistics standpoint?

The MK was designed for 10 million. Decades of converting charm and beauty into operational capacity has changed that.

EPCOT lost much capacity over the years.

Capacity is quite flexible, within a sufficient timespan.

 

[BrianLo]

We can't compare 2021/2020 numbers, but we can compare 2019 to 2011:

Attendance Change
Universal Orlando: 55.2% increase (doesn't even include Volcano Bay which has been a real winner for UO)
Walt Disney World: 23.9% increase

Market Share
Universal Orlando: 22.4% to 26.6% (2022 - 33.3%)
Walt Disney World: 77.6% to 73.4% (2022 - 66.7%)

There's an obvious change happening in Orlando that will be magnified by the increased hotel rooms at UOR over the next few years and Epic Universe. Realistically, I can see a 40/60 split between Universal/Disney.


As a fan of Disney Parks, you want Universal to completely dominate the next few years to get Disney worried enough to start doing something about it.

Thank you. Just as it's useless to excitedly point out how much market share Universal "gained" this year, it will be just as useless getting excited about how much Disney "gains" back of the market share next year.

The trend has been evident for a decade though and it very clearly will ramp up with a third park.

Last years data on the other hand is hilarious how excited people are about it. Data from over 4 quarters ago to 8 quarters ago. There really is collective amnesia going on.

 

[Touchdown]

When you look at the domestic numbers I'm always amazed at how high Knotts is. For a park that doesn't get talked about much it does very well.

It’s open all year, and is a fantastic park. CF’s 4 gems are CP, Knotts, KI and CW.

 

[LSLS]

The real question is WHY are there caps? It's obviously not to make the parks less crowded, cause wait times are ridiculous. Is it because they can't hire enough people to work there? Or just they don't want to pay workers more hours? What is the cause of the caps at this point?

 

[bhg469]

Is it because they can't hire enough people to work there? Or just they don't want to pay workers more hours?

The latter leads to the prior, no?

 

[LSLS]

The latter leads to the prior, no?

Could. It could be the people they have hired they don't want to give hours to, or it could be they can't get enough workers in because they won't pay enough.

 

[el_super]

The real question is WHY are there caps? It's obviously not to make the parks less crowded, cause wait times are ridiculous. Is it because they can't hire enough people to work there? Or just they don't want to pay workers more hours? What is the cause of the caps at this point?

You don't really have to go much further past "to improve the guest experience." Whether you want to attribute that to some other factor, or not.

 

[Andrew25]

The real question is WHY are there caps? It's obviously not to make the parks less crowded, cause wait times are ridiculous. Is it because they can't hire enough people to work there? Or just they don't want to pay workers more hours? What is the cause of the caps at this point?

There are some weird deceitful practices happening at the parks right now. Wait times are being either heavily exaggerated or lowered - whether intentionally to sell Genie+ or crowd movement control, you decide. From what I can tell, the attractions themselves are well-staffed. All other venues are questionable.


Conspiracy Theory (and a pro-tip): Disney obviously knows the value of Genie+, which is why they are so reluctant to reduce posted wait times on their most in-demand attractions, even with waits not being at their posted time:

• A few weeks ago, Seven Dwarfs was posted at 60... walk on at 10:00 PM. (Obviously late at night, but if you are planning a once-in-a-lifetime trip and saw this on the app, you will feel compelled to buy Genie the next day to guarantee a ride).
• Just a few days ago, Rise of the Resistance posted at 50... 20-minute wait (including pre-shows) at park close.
• Just 2 nights ago, Flight of Passage posted at 60... 25-minute wait.

 

[LSLS]

There are some weird deceitful practices happening at the parks right now. Wait times are being either heavily exaggerated or lowered - whether intentionally to sell Genie+ or crowd movement control, you decide. From what I can tell, the attractions themselves are well-staffed. All other venues are questionable.


Conspiracy Theory (and a pro-tip): Disney obviously knows the value of Genie+, which is why they are so reluctant to reduce posted wait times on their most in-demand attractions, even with waits not being at their posted time:

• A few weeks ago, Seven Dwarfs was posted at 60... walk on at 10:00 PM. (Obviously late at night, but if you are planning a once-in-a-lifetime trip and saw this on the app, you will feel compelled to buy Genie the next day to guarantee a ride).
• Just a few days ago, Rise of the Resistance posted at 50... 20-minute wait (including pre-shows) at park close.
• Just 2 nights ago, Flight of Passage posted at 60... 25-minute wait.

That's nothing new though. When we went pre-pandemic (Maybe January 2018?), this was going on as well. The posted wait time for 7 Dwarfs was 60 minutes. I looked at the line and thought "No way". We were on in 15 minutes. We got off, and the wait time now showed 75 minutes.

 

[Touchdown]

They keep the waits long at close so that people don’t hop in and the CMs can go home. The posted waits are rarely right at other times though, but it can be longer or shorter. It’s especially hard to judge with LL merge being so unpredictable lately.

 

[Chi84]

There are some weird deceitful practices happening at the parks right now. Wait times are being either heavily exaggerated or lowered - whether intentionally to sell Genie+ or crowd movement control, you decide. From what I can tell, the attractions themselves are well-staffed. All other venues are questionable.


Conspiracy Theory (and a pro-tip): Disney obviously knows the value of Genie+, which is why they are so reluctant to reduce posted wait times on their most in-demand attractions, even with waits not being at their posted time:

• A few weeks ago, Seven Dwarfs was posted at 60... walk on at 10:00 PM. (Obviously late at night, but if you are planning a once-in-a-lifetime trip and saw this on the app, you will feel compelled to buy Genie the next day to guarantee a ride).
• Just a few days ago, Rise of the Resistance posted at 50... 20-minute wait (including pre-shows) at park close.
• Just 2 nights ago, Flight of Passage posted at 60... 25-minute wait.

Disney has been inflating wait times at park close for as many years as they've been posting wait times. It's to discourage people from getting in line at the very end of the day.

You can always buy a Touringplans subscription (doesn't cost much) and get their Lines app to double-check Disney's posted wait times if you want to avoid the conspiracy. The Lines app shows both Disney's posted wait time and Touringplan's expected wait time so you can compare. Sometimes there's a pretty big difference but often the times are off by about 10 minutes or so.

 

[Andrew25]

I know this practice of inflating wait-times has been happening for years, way before Genie... but I think it's bad practice and even more so with a system that costs $ to use now.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

You remember how this was the first year in history that every Halloween party night sold out right?

I'm not sure that really proves much of anything though when MK closes at 6pm for 4 nights per week.

Plus, park hours on the remaining 3 nights originally had MK closing at 8:30, I think. That's pretty limited non-party PM hours. Parkgoers feel somewhat squeezed into going to the parties. They have now been expanded to an 11pm closing, but people bought party tickets back when they were still listed at the earlier closng time.

Looking at December, non-party nights currently show MK closing at 10pm.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I can’t speak to the entire year, but I can tell you that on our last 2 trips the caps were hit at all 4 parks for almost every day we were there.

Easter week Epcot still had availability. Friends of mine went that week, but did not know to book parks until they arrived. Some days Epcot was their only option, but over the week they were able to visit all 4 parks. I think they had 3 Epcot days, 1 HS, 1AK, 1 MK, and they opted to visit Universal 2 days.

 

[No Name]

I believe this is the first time IoA has topped USF too?

No, it was higher from 2010 to 2014, aka from when Hogsmeade opened to when Diagon Alley opened.