News 2021 Theme Index

[Sir_Cliff]

I find these numbers very interesting, but very hard to know what to make of them without more information.

If Disney's reservations were routinely filling up and they were thus turning away guests on a regular basis from the parks through 2021, then it would seem that at least part of this was by choice on Disney's part. The logic could be COVID safety, staffing, creating an artificial sense of scarcity, or all sorts of other things, but the impact would be the same. To throw Disney a bone, I would imagine that in a tight labor market it is harder to keep 4 parks running at full staffing levels than to keep 2 running.

If the cap was set lower than pre-pandemic daily attendance and they still weren't meeting it, then I would think the cap was largely irrelevant in explaining these numbers.

I am further curious to know whether all the recent adjustments to how the parks work that were ostensibly aimed at improving the guest experience in part by making the parks feel less crowded have done the opposite, making the parks feel more crowded with less guests and the experience of visiting overall less pleasant with all the extra hoops that guests have to jump through and upcharges. They should have some metrics on that already, and if that is what is happening I hope they are figuring out how to back peddle at least some of it.

From my part, though, I really feel like I don't have the information to say what is happening here.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I find these numbers very interesting, but very hard to know what to make of them without more information.

If Disney's reservations were routinely filling up and they were thus turning away guests on a regular basis from the parks through 2021, then it would seem that at least part of this was by choice on Disney's part. The logic could be COVID safety, staffing, creating an artificial sense of scarcity, or all sorts of other things, but the impact would be the same.

If the cap was set lower than pre-pandemic daily attendance and they still weren't meeting it, then I would think the cap was largely irrelevant in explaining these numbers.

I am further curious to know whether all the recent adjustments to how the parks work that were ostensibly aimed at improving the guest experience in part by making the parks feel less crowded have done the opposite, making the parks feel more crowded with less guests and the experience of visiting overall less pleasant with all the extra hoops that guests have to jump through and upcharges. They should have some metrics on that already, and if that is what is happening I hope they are figuring out how to back peddle at least some of it.

From my part, though, I really feel like I don't have the information to say what is happening here.

Well…they never hit “the cap”…so the demand hasn’t been to that level - whatever that is.
There are usually rooms available - which is not the historic precedent either.

But I would guess the off property attendance has taken the most measurable hit…probably in the form of reduced numbers of days in wdw.

They’ve just made it really hard. Most people aren’t on this board to care enough.

The goals in the mainstream are still simple at their core:
1. Book expensive trip
2. Show
3. Have good time without overwhelming stress.

It’s become very hard.

But as far as “improving the guest experience”…that is as canned of a researched Disney PR term as there has ever been. Just like calling everything an “experience”…to disassociate the price from the tangibility of the product. Works like a charm for now.

To repeat my frequent rant: attendance has risen 25% or more since 2000…and they’ve added at most 5-10% in seat/show capacity at most in that time.
There is no way to charge/“manage” that gap away when it comes to feel. It’s numbers game and Bob didn’t make an effort to be forward thinking. I hope he enjoys his retirement/ irrelevancy

 

[peter11435]

Good news they’re not drawing that much, huh?

And the ops are still kinda a mess.

Well done, Bobs

I don’t think you actually understand what’s going on. You’re trying to drive the discussion in the direction you want it to go.

Park attendance is just fine. Demand is plenty

You remember how this was the first year in history that every Halloween party night sold out right?

 

[peter11435]

Well…they never hit “the cap”…so the demand hasn’t been to that level - whatever that is.
There are usually rooms available - which is not the historic precedent either.

But I would guess the off property attendance has taken the most measurable hit…probably in the form of reduced numbers of days in wdw.

They’ve just made it really hard. Most people aren’t on this board to care enough.

The goals in the mainstream are still simple at their core:
1. Book expensive trip
2. Show
3. Have good time without overwhelming stress.

It’s become very hard.

But as far as “improving the guest experience”…that is as canned of a researched Disney PR term as there has ever been. Just like calling everything an “experience”…to disassociate the price from the tangibility of the product. Works like a charm for now.

To repeat my frequent rant: attendance has risen 25% or more since 2000…and they’ve added at most 5-10% in seat/show capacity at most in that time.
There is no way to charge/“manage” that gap away when it comes to feel. It’s numbers game and Bob didn’t make an effort to be forward thinking. I hope he enjoys his retirement/ irrelevancy

They absolutely did hit “the cap” or caps quite frequently for much of the period this report references.

 

[Gail Voris]

So, does anyone know if this is accurate? The numbers Disney has been reporting suggest they are going gangbusters, but these figures suggest a major realignment in the Orlando theme park market in which Universal is seriously competing with Disney for #1.

Disney will never admit anything is wrong, even if the “ship” is sinking. They lie about how great things are, even if the reports show differently. It’s all about keeping stock holders happy and believing their investments are fine. They refuse to see the truth behind “Go woke and go broke”!

 

[peter11435]

Disney will never admit anything is wrong, even if the “ship” is sinking. They lie about how great things are, even if the reports show differently. It’s all about keeping stock holders happy and believing their investments are fine. They refuse to see the truth behind “Go woke and go broke”!

Lol

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The goals in the mainstream are still simple at their core:
1. Book expensive trip
2. Show
3. Have good time without overwhelming stress.

It’s become very hard.

I can only speak for myself, but for me it doesn't seem worth the bother and expense right now to go to WDW. DLP, at least, is a simpler prospect in that I can just go there for a few days and largely ignore their ride reservation system if I want to and still get on pretty much everything I want to.

If WDW really is still slammed, though, I guess I might not be a typical guest.

But as far as “improving the guest experience”…that is as canned of a researched Disney PR term as there has ever been. Just like calling everything an “experience”…to disassociate the price from the tangibility of the product. Works like a charm for now.

While I agree they will always try to extract as much money as possible out of each guest more than shower them with love and appreciation, I don't think they want people to feel like they had a bad time. If after all these changes guest satisfaction starts going down, I doubt they will be lighting cigars back in the executive suites in Burbank and laughing at how much suffering they're inflicting on their guests/friends. I'm sure they know that they need guests to feel that they had a good time for the business to remain viable.

There are some who will go along with whatever Disney throws at them, but this is a volume business that depends on hundreds of thousands of people showing up every week.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t think you actually understand what’s going on. You’re trying to drive the discussion in the direction you want it to go.

Park attendance is just fine. Demand is plenty

You remember how this was the first year in history that every Halloween party night sold out right?

So they’re capping out?
And I’m well aware of what’s going on with Halloween (8/22)…that’s good for Disney but not an incredible showing by the customers.

I’m not driving anything. Things are what they are. Trust only Burbank…nobody in the 32830

They absolutely did hit “the cap” or caps quite frequently for much of the period this report references.

They have? I was unaware. All 4 are booked solid? Regularly?

 

[JusticeDisney]

So they’re capping out?
And I’m well aware of what’s going on with Halloween (8/22)…that’s good for Disney but not an incredible showing by the customers.

I’m not driving anything. Things are what they are. Trust only Burbank…nobody in the 32830

They have? I was unaware. All 4 are booked solid? Regularly?

I can’t speak to the entire year, but I can tell you that on our last 2 trips the caps were hit at all 4 parks for almost every day we were there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can only speak for myself, but for me it doesn't seem worth the bother and expense right now to go to WDW. DLP, at least, is a simpler prospect in that I can just go there for a few days and largely ignore their ride reservation system if I want to and still get on pretty much everything I want to.

If WDW really is still slammed, though, I guess I might not be a typical guest.


While I agree they will always try to extract as much money as possible out of each guest more than shower them with love and appreciation, I don't think they want people to feel like they had a bad time. If after all these changes guest satisfaction starts going down, I doubt they will be lighting cigars back in the executive suites in Burbank and laughing at how much suffering they're inflicting on their guests/friends. I'm sure they know that they need guests to feel that they had a good time for the business to remain viable.

Guest satisfaction has become the mythical “saviour” for ardent Disney fans. I don’t share it…but I get it. The desire for that to matter.

But that would only matter if the goal was repeat business as it was with previous regimes.

They’re fine with repeat business…but they appear to want it 100% on their terms. If that’s even “loosely” true…”guest satisfaction” is lip service.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can’t speak to the entire year, but I can tell you that on our last 2 trips the caps were hit at all 4 parks for almost every day we were there.

I have seen reports of that recently. That’s going to change the cap system then…they don’t have a choice.

Aren’t you local? (For context)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney will never admit anything is wrong, even if the “ship” is sinking. They lie about how great things are, even if the reports show differently. It’s all about keeping stock holders happy and believing their investments are fine. They refuse to see the truth behind “Go woke and go broke”!

…ehhhh…2 minutes in the box for this one.

You ever look at the clientele in Florida? Or Anaheim?

That’s not the crowd you’re describing. No boogie men.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I have seen reports of that recently. That’s going to change the cap system then…they don’t have a choice.

Aren’t you local? (For context)

I’m not local. From the northeast.

 

[peter11435]

So they’re capping out?

Yes, you have been told this multiple times.

Even if there was still availability for some types of guests on some days the park system made it harder or impossible for other types of guests.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, you have been told this multiple times.

Even if there was still availability for some types of guests on some days the park system made it harder or impossible for other types of guests.

Cap out would have to be 100% capacity or it can - correctly - be labeled still as a distribution system. It’s not really a cap until there are people on the ground being told to go to springs.

Not for producing what people actually want.

I think you’ve ignored that a fair amount of times as well.

So we should go back to our corners.

 

[Dranth]

Disney will never admit anything is wrong, even if the “ship” is sinking. They lie about how great things are, even if the reports show differently. It’s all about keeping stock holders happy and believing their investments are fine. They refuse to see the truth behind “Go woke and go broke”!

You have an odd definition of go broke as they just pulled in something like 7.4 billion in the parks last quarter despite the "controversy". Seems more likely that a lot of people could care less about whatever imagined slight a handful of folks are all in their feelings about.

 

[Andrew25]

One thing I always wonder when I hear about Disney being dethroned is if it‘s even possible for any of the other parks to accommodate as many guests as MK and/or DL?

Could EP, AK, HS, USF, IOA, DCA, etc even physically accommodate 20 million guests a year? They are are all around 9-12 million now but they appear near capacity already, could any of them realistically add 8 million more guests a year purely from a logistics standpoint?

No park in Orlando will reach or overtake MK in terms of attendance. It is the crown jewel of Orlando.

All the other parks are pretty much in battle with each other.

USF/IOA still have backstage areas they can expand onto, which will become easier to do once the south campus warehouses are completed.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I might be a little bit nuts then, because I think they would be quite fine with that.

I think they still want to be known as the premiere vacation destination - the vacation kingdom of the world.

If they keep that status and make more money, I don't think they care if Universal gains some ground but is still a clear #2 ...

Now if that status starts to change then I think they react and put in effort to get back the crown

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney does not report actual numbers (to my knowledge) but Uni is definitely closing the gap

 

[peter11435]

It’s not really a cap until there are people on the ground being told to go to springs.

But there are. There are people who are unable to get a park pass. And there are people turned away at the gate because they do not have a park pass. I’m sure you remember the story of the elderly couple with tickets turned away at the gate.