2015: The year of the EPCOT makeover?

[MerlinTheGoat]

DunBroch wasn't a real place either, but that didn't stop Scotland from embracing the tourism bump from Brave, going so far as approaching Disney to be sponsors at the Food & Wine Festival.

Indeed, though Scotland IS a real place and at least the movie is absolutely filled full of distinct Scottish culture, music and architecture (and shockingly for a Disney movie, appropriate accents for the characters). I'm not even a fan of Brave (found it extremely dull), but I was constantly reminded during the viewing of it that it was supposed to be taking place in Scotland. It's impossible not to spot. Frozen on the flipside i'm a much bigger fan of as a movie, but I mostly glance over any vaguely Scandinavian influences it has (and i'm definitely not entirely ignorant and new towards Norwegian culture).

BTW, not using this to justify plopping any toons in World Showcase. They shouldn't be doing that at all. This discussion has kind of spun off in another direction and I wanted to make it clear that i'm not justifying any sort of Disney cartoons at any pavilion.

 

[jakeman]

Not at all. Tourism could have been increased in a variety of other forms without bringing a popular Disney movie into the mix. Updating the Norway pavilion logically (without Frozen) would have been one way. It would simply take more effort. Frozen was convenient because it already had a large following and vaguely (though unstated) Scandinavian influences, one that Norway's tourism industry saw an opportunity to exploit without having to put effort in themselves.

I am willing to say Frozen helped increase tourism in Norway, but there is a reason this happened and it wasn't solely because of the self-contained movie. The simple fact is that without that massive advertisement and promotion, the movie alone would not have granted a substantial increase in tourism. So my point stands, Frozen in of itself did not spark interest in Norway among its viewers. It took major promotion outside of the movie to achieve that interest, fans had to be informed that the connections were there.

And had these promotions not been made, the bump in tourism would have been negligible because so few people lacking prior knowledge of Norwegian culture would never have made the connection to the real world. It wasn't like Brave=Scotland, Mulan=China, Hercules=Greece and Hunchback=France (or even Ratatouille) where the countries of origin and their connections to the movie were obvious in the movies themselves (and no i'm not saying they should take over World Showcase but they're more explicit about real places where they fictionally took place). Even those articles you posted addressed that it was the partnership between Disney and various Norwegian tourism companies that achieved this.

Of course it wasn't solely because of the movie. Very little happens without advertising and partnerships, but to divorce them from the movie to try and minimize a film's influence is, frankly, ridiculous. It's like saying people don't drink Coke because it taste good, they drink it because of the advertising.

If there was no Frozen, there would be no generic Scandinavian characters and setting for a partnership to progress. If there was no Frozen then there would be no bump in Norwegian tourism. We are saying the same thing, but you are married to this rather odd idea that because people didn't come out of the theater and head directly to the airport, the film didn't influence anyone's travel decisions.

In closing here are some quotes from the articles which you claimed point to only the advertisement and promotion campaign:

"The movie has shown Norway as a spectacular destination," Per-Arne Tuftin, executive vice president at Innovation Norway told CNBC's Worldwide Exchange.

“The film seems to be a big part of the popularity,” Wilderness Travel spokesperson Barbara Banks told AP. “People just hadn’t seen these remarkable landscapes before.”

Additionally, they partnered with VisitNorway.com and added Frozen itineraries to Adventures by Disney and their Cruise. It's not like they blitzed the entire country.

I'm out at this point. I don't quite understand why you are so bent on splitting this hair, but by all means continue.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm saying Frozen's impact on tourism without that advertisement would have been minimal because the Scandinavian influences in the film are relatively easy to miss or ignore, even from someone like myself who is somewhat familiar with Norwegian culture (and again the primary driving reason starting my familiarity was visiting the Norway pavilion as a child). In contrast with other Disney films such as Brave, Hercules, Hunchback, Mulan etc that are much more upfront and obvious about the country of origin where they take place.

It required a substantial amount of external advertisement and promotion to educate most Frozen fans unfamiliar with Norway that the movie even had connections to Norway in the first place. Without those statements of clarification, very few people who were unfamiliar with Norway prior to the movie would have really known or cared about the connections just from seeing the movie. Whereas the way the culture is presented in the other animated movies such as the ones I mentioned above were self evident within the movie itself (no education was required outside of the viewing of the films to realize what the intended country of origin was). The films themselves promote their countries of origin with no external research or advertisement viewing required.

 

[Siren]

If Frozen was going to inspire any curiosity from people to explore and learn about the culture of Norway, the movie would already have done so. It has not. Nor is there any reason to suspect a low budget ride will either. No one cares about researching Norway or any other Scandinavin culture after watching a movie (or riding a ride) about a princess/queen with ice magic and her enchanted talking snowman who dreams of summer.

Riding Maelstrom as a child sparked in me an interest and fascination about Norwegian culture and history, both real and the mythological. Frozen was a good Disney princess movie (overrated but good), but it did not inspire any thoughts about Norwegian culture or history at all. It barely even kept the reminder that you were in a vague Scandinavian setting, this was almost entirely subdued and quickly brushed over.


Trolls are myths and stories derived from Norwegian culture. Just like dragons are a part of Chinese culture and mythology, or the Greek and Roman gods being a part of Italian culture and mythology. The concept of the Christian "God" is also used in the Declaration of Independence, the excerpt about men being granted certain rights by their God is read aloud American Adventure. Trolls are also not the only part of the ride either, the ride also features real viking characters and sets from factual Norse history. It mixes history with mythology, and for celebrating a culture it can be a good thing if done tastefully.

It does not mean Disney should run amok and toons-ify everything with overwhelming Disney IP presence, turning it into the spillover for what they refuse to build properly at Fantasyland. But historical takes on mythology have a place in a country's culture, many (actually most if not all) civilizations were founded on the principles of their religious beliefs and superstitions.

Again, more apples & oranges. You attempted to compare a theme park attraction you experienced as a child to a child oriented film you watched as an adult. You cannot make a proper comparison without having experienced the Frozen attraction, first hand.

There is nothing conclusive that can be drawn from your random childhood observations or any other of your Disney experiences, for that matter -- as it is all opinion, and entirely subjective.

I rode maelstrom as a child, too . It didn't inspire me, in the least back then and it certainly doesn't inspire me now -- well, not now but before it closed. I loved to ride Maelstrom, but it has never been a must do for me.

With that said, I do have enough understanding to realize, that other people who are not like me, may have truly been inspired by Maelstrom. Ironically, there weren't enough of those people to make Maelstrom one of the more popular rides prior to Frozen and FP+.

I think $85,000,000 is a decent budget for an overlay and there is plenty of time to execute the plans properly. I can't wait to see the new Frozen ride in 2016! It's time to make some new Disney memories.

 

[Siren]

Of course it wasn't solely because of the movie. Very little happens without advertising and partnerships, but to divorce them from the movie to try and minimize a film's influence is, frankly, ridiculous. It's like saying people don't drink Coke because it taste good, they drink it because of the advertising.

If there was no Frozen, there would be no generic Scandinavian characters and setting for a partnership to progress. If there was no Frozen then there would be no bump in Norwegian tourism. We are saying the same thing, but you are married to this rather odd idea that because people didn't come out of the theater and head directly to the airport, the film didn't influence anyone's travel decisions.

In closing here are some quotes from the articles which you claimed point to only the advertisement and promotion campaign:





Additionally, they partnered with VisitNorway.com and added Frozen itineraries to Adventures by Disney and their Cruise. It's not like they blitzed the entire country.

I'm out at this point. I don't quite understand why you are so bent on splitting this hair, but by all means continue.

I totally agree with every single one of your posts! I find it to be kind of silly to disassociate Frozen with the boost of tourism in Norway, when everyone over there specifically credits Frozen for the boost in tourism, not Disney. And, it's also kind of ridiculous to separate the two entities in the first place.

"Innovation Norway says viewers are also smitten by the film's stunning art direction, which presents digital
renderings of Norwegian life, including charming stave churches, traditional "bunad" costumes and a sweepingmountainous backdrop. "It put Norway on the map," says Beate Gran, Innovation Norway's digital media manager and marketing coordinator."

Queen Elsa has bumped Barbie out of the number spot! Frozen will go down in history as one of the most iconic IP's in pop culture.

Frozen's Queen Elsa beats Barbie in toy sales http://www.smh.com.au/business/worl...eats-barbie-in-toy-sales-20141017-117jkn.html

Mattel's Barbie out of fashion with today's girls http://fortune.com/2014/10/16/mattel-barbie-slump/

I kind of have mixed feelings though. I had a ton of Barbies when I was a little girl. I had the mansion, pool, the Corvette, tons of clothes and of course, Ken -- I never got the jet plane, though.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think it's ridiculous to disregard the fact that the tourism was boosted largely due to external promotion Disney and Norway created OUTSIDE of the confines of the movie. The movie alone would not have had a substantial role in improving tourism. People unfamiliar with Norway didn't go watch the movie and come away from it wanting to visit Norway (I don't know how the unfamiliar could even connect the dots as Scandinavia is never mentioned during the movie, even I barely noticed the connections). Nor do I feel the Norwegian culture is remotely what anyone was interested in when they watched it. The Scandinavian influences are kept very subtle, it's the characters/story/music that people enjoyed about it, people don't seem to care much or at all about the setting. The movie contributed as a way to market Norway, but it would not have been able to do so without aggressive marketing outside of the movie. And as I stated, had Disney and Norway kept quiet about its real world influences, I don't see much of a reason to think tourism for Norway would have increased substantially (if any) from watching the movie alone. Unlike a movie like Hunchback of Notre Dame or even Ratatouille which both have massive self-included promotion for France and Paris inside the movies themselves.

I don't have to have ridden a Frozen ride to realize it's a poor fit for World Showcase. No one does. It could be the most amazing ride ever (it won't be sadly) with the largest budget ever (this is as cheap and quick of a way to cash in on the IP as you can get). It will still never be appropriate for EPCOT. But even if you choose to ignore that ever-present problem, I STILL don't understand the logic in anyone expecting and trusting that Disney will put the effort and money into this ride to actually make it a good attraction in of itself (even disregarding). Even the far larger budget and greater ambition of New Fantasyland was a mess, and it included actual NEW rides/attractions (with new show buildings). Ones that weren't able to so easily cash in and coast off of recent fanfare still fresh in public opinion like Frozen.

We've been told by the very people who broke this news ages ago to expect this to be done on the cheap with minimal effort involved. The fact that they are repurposing an existing show building (and heavily rumored by insiders to be the same track and layout) should give people a good reason to set expectations at rock bottom. Even if you like the movie and don't care about appropriate thematic integrity, there's no reason to get excited here. As i've said, this project is a spit in the eye at Frozen fans.

Queen Elsa has bumped Barbie out of the number spot! Frozen will go down in history as one of the most iconic IP's in pop culture.

I highly doubt Barbie will be dethroned forever, it doesn't surprise me though and I can't really say i'm unhappy (I like Elsa a lot myself). Even still while I suspect Frozen won't be forgotten entirely (though the same was also believed of Tangled and i'm already seeing its popularity waning fast), this is hardly the first time a Disney movie and its leading lady has garnered such popularity after release of the movie (funny thing is that I saw more little girls dressed in Anna and Cinderella costumes than Elsa when I visited earlier this month). But i'm not upset that girls would choose Elsa over Barbie. Ironically despite her otherwordly powers, she's a much more realistic human being than Barbie. I'm not dissing girls for playing with Barbie dolls or anything (far from it), but she's a very poor and dim witted role model to obsess over. As long as we don't see little girls start trying to stab people with ice or whatever (joking). And hopefully Disney keeps her personality intact if Elsa remains popular over the years, many Disney princesses often become generic "barbie" like images used in corporate marketing, losing their identity and what made them interesting in the first place.

 

[Siren]

I highly doubt Barbie will be dethroned forever, it doesn't surprise me though and I can't really say i'm unhappy (I like Elsa a lot myself). Even still while I suspect Frozen won't be forgotten entirely (though the same was also believed of Tangled and i'm already seeing its popularity waning fast), this is hardly the first time a Disney movie and its leading lady has garnered such popularity after release of the movie (funny thing is that I saw more little girls dressed in Anna and Cinderella costumes than Elsa when I visited earlier this month). But i'm not upset that girls would choose Elsa over Barbie. Ironically despite her otherwordly powers, she's a much more realistic human being than Barbie. I'm not dissing girls for playing with Barbie dolls or anything (far from it), but she's a very poor and dim witted role model to obsess over. As long as we don't see little girls start trying to stab people with ice or whatever (joking). And hopefully Disney keeps her personality intact if Elsa remains popular over the years, many Disney princesses often become generic "barbie" like images used in corporate marketing, losing their identity and what made them interesting in the first place.

Barbie was dethroned by the Bratz Dolls before, so it's not the first time. I agree that nothing stays popular forever, but taking down Barbie is huge news, even if it is only for a season or two. It's really no surprise that you saw more Anna and Cinderella costumes, as they were easy accessible. It was incredibly difficult for the majority of little girls to find an Elsa dress because they were sold out everywhere and also being hawked on Ebay for astronomical prices. Elsa is a Queen, so I don't think she should be in the Disney Princess lineup, that belongs to Anna.

No one is "obsessing" over Barbie, it's a just toy, not a role model. It's no different than boys who play with Spiderman or Batman dolls. But, now there are also "Breaking Bad" dolls for boys, and I don't think those are appropriate for children, so you may have a minute point there.

I think it's ridiculous to disregard the fact that the tourism was boosted largely due to external promotion Disney and Norway created OUTSIDE of the confines of the movie. The movie alone would not have had a substantial role in improving tourism. People unfamiliar with Norway didn't go watch the movie and come away from it wanting to visit Norway (I don't know how the unfamiliar could even connect the dots as Scandinavia is never mentioned during the movie, even I barely noticed the connections). Nor do I feel the Norwegian culture is remotely what anyone was interested in when they watched it. The Scandinavian influences are kept very subtle, it's the characters/story/music that people enjoyed about it, people don't seem to care much or at all about the setting. The movie contributed as a way to market Norway, but it would not have been able to do so without aggressive marketing outside of the movie. And as I stated, had Disney and Norway kept quiet about its real world influences, I don't see much of a reason to think tourism for Norway would have increased substantially (if any) from watching the movie alone. Unlike a movie like Hunchback of Notre Dame or even Ratatouille which both have massive self-included promotion for France and Paris inside the movies themselves.

I don't have to have ridden a Frozen ride to realize it's a poor fit for World Showcase. No one does. It could be the most amazing ride ever (it won't be sadly) with the largest budget ever (this is as cheap and quick of a way to cash in on the IP as you can get). It will still never be appropriate for EPCOT. But even if you choose to ignore that ever-present problem, I STILL don't understand the logic in anyone expecting and trusting that Disney will put the effort and money into this ride to actually make it a good attraction in of itself (even disregarding). Even the far larger budget and greater ambition of New Fantasyland was a mess, and it included actual NEW rides/attractions (with new show buildings). Ones that weren't able to so easily cash in and coast off of recent fanfare still fresh in public opinion like Frozen.

We've been told by the very people who broke this news ages ago to expect this to be done on the cheap with minimal effort involved. The fact that they are repurposing an existing show building (and heavily rumored by insiders to be the same track and layout) should give people a good reason to set expectations at rock bottom. Even if you like the movie and don't care about appropriate thematic integrity, there's no reason to get excited here. As i've said, this project is a spit in the eye at Frozen fans.

Ugh. This is just too pedantic. Frozen is the *sole* reason for the boost in tourism to Norway. No one cannot deny that. I just had to find the cutest, most adorable box of straws for you to continue to *grasp*. I hope you like them.

@wm49rs - Look at Merlin's posts. It's funny how you are so quick to jump all over me for "trying too hard", but never say anything to Merlin. Hmm...... that's really interesting.

Anyway, I have tempered my expectations, but that was long before Fantasyland. I already know not to expect anything major from the overlay, but hopefully it will at least look nice. It just has to look better than Maelstrom. I hope Disney keeps the backwards part, too. I liked the old test track better, but the new one is still fun. So, we'll see.

With that said, Frozestrom does seem to further denote that the era of original creativity and innovation in theme park attractions at Disney World is all behind us -- virtually everything now will have to have an IP attached to it, whereas before the ratio may have been about 50/50.

 

[wm49rs]

Barbie was dethroned by the Bratz Dolls before, so it's not the first time. I agree that nothing stays popular forever, but taking down Barbie is huge news, even if it is only for a season or two. It's really no surprise that you saw more Anna and Cinderella costumes, as they were easy accessible. It was incredibly difficult for the majority of little girls to find an Elsa dress because they were sold out everywhere and also being hawked on Ebay for astronomical prices. Elsa is a Queen, so I don't think she should be in the Disney Princess lineup, that belongs to Anna.

No one is "obsessing" over Barbie, it's a just toy, not a role model. It's no different than boys who play with Spiderman or Batman dolls. But, now there are also "Breaking Bad" dolls for boys, and I don't think those are appropriate for children, so you may have a minute point there.

Ugh. This is just too pedantic. Frozen is the *sole* reason for the boost in tourism to Norway. No one cannot deny that. I just had to find the cutest, most adorable box of straws for you to continue to *grasp*. I hope you like them.

@wm49rs - Look at Merlin's posts. It's funny how you are so quick to jump all over me for "trying too hard", but never say anything to Merlin. Hmm...... that's really interesting.

Anyway, I have tempered my expectations, but that was long before Fantasyland. I already know not to expect anything major from the overlay, but hopefully it will at least look nice. It just has to look better than Maelstrom. I hope Disney keeps the backwards part, too. I liked the old test track better, but the new one is still fun. So, we'll see.

With that said, Frozestrom does seem to further denote that the era of original creativity and innovation in theme park attractions at Disney World is all behind us -- virtually everything now will have to have an IP attached to it, whereas before the ratio may have been about 50/50.

No, you're still trying too hard. But then again, I'm sure your motive for doing so is different....

 

[Siren]

No, you're still trying too hard. But then again, I'm sure your motive for doing so is different....

How so? And, what motive are you talking about? I'm sorry, but there is no way that I am trying too hard & there is no motive. If you look objectively at my posts compared to other posts, mine are definitely more understated. This is just a super nice forum for everyone to talk about Disney and get all the latest info. Not everything needs to be a conspiracy theory. I am here for the same reasons you are. Times up, gotta go.

 

[wm49rs]

How so? And, what motive are you talking about? I'm sorry, but there is no way that I am trying too hard & there is no motive. If you look objectively at my posts compared to other posts, mine are definitely more understated. This is just a super nice forum for everyone to talk about Disney and get all the latest info. Not everything needs to be a conspiracy theory. I am here for the same reasons you are. Times up, gotta go.

Whatever helps you get through the day....

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I dislike both Test Track versions, both feel like you're just being driven through empty warehouses, one just with more neon than the other (the speed you travel isn't even intense enough for me to care about calling it a "thrill ride"). Still sorely miss World of Motion and all of its awesome set pieces and huge animatronic population, such a sad thing to have seen it gutted and its replacement feel so empty and relatively devoid of detail...

I didn't have to "try hard" to realize that Norway's tourism boost wasn't from the viewing of Frozen alone, it's common sense and requires no effort. Extra education had to be provided outside of the movie's confines for any boost to be had, the movie was used as an extremely loose tie in for marketing purposes to achieve the boost. It's kind of like saying just the viewing of Lord of the Rings alone was the sole reason for a boost in New Zealand tourism. No one knew (and few cared) where it was filmed until the creators made documentaries about it to promote New Zealand. Little to no boost would have been had with the movie alone.

I expect the ties to Norway to be extremely subdued if not absent entirely in Frozenstrom. In a PR statement from Tom Staggs (in response to a concerned message from someone who wished assurance that Norwegian culture remain prominent in the ride), it was commented that the ride would be focused on the characters and music from the movie. I expect very little promotion will be done regarding Norway in the ride (and kids probably will not give a crap about Norway when they just want to see Elsa and Olaf). The statement rather brushed past Norway's connections, saying they would be focusing on the movie's story instead of promoting the country.
http://land.allears.net/blogs/dnews/2014/09/frozen_attraction_to_replace_m.html

 

[aladdin2007]

I can tell you all that Norway is thrilled with the tourism boost and is actually happy that its going to bri

I dislike both Test Track versions, both feel like you're just being driven through empty warehouses, one just with more neon than the other (the speed you travel isn't even intense enough for me to care about calling it a "thrill ride"). Still sorely miss World of Motion and all of its awesome set pieces and huge animatronic population, such a sad thing to have seen it gutted and its replacement feel so empty and relatively devoid of detail...

I didn't have to "try hard" to realize that Norway's tourism boost wasn't from the viewing of Frozen alone, it's common sense. Extra education had to be provided outside of the movie's confines for any boost to be had, the movie was used as an extremely loose tie in for marketing purposes to achieve the boost. It's kind of like saying just the viewing of Lord of the Rings alone was the sole reason for a boost in New Zealand tourism. No one knew (and few cared) where it was filmed until the creators made documentaries about it to promote New Zealand. Little to no boost would have been had with the movie alone.

I expect the ties to Norway to be extremely subdued if not absent entirely in Frozenstrom. In a PR statement from Tom Staggs (in response to a concerned message from someone who wished assurance that Norwegian culture remain prominent in the ride), it was commented that the ride would be focused on the characters and music from the movie. I expect very little promotion will be done regarding Norway in the ride (and kids probably will not give a crap about Norway when they just want to see Elsa and Olaf). The statement rather brushed past Norway's connections, saying they would be focusing on the movie's story instead of promoting the country.
http://land.allears.net/blogs/dnews/2014/09/frozen_attraction_to_replace_m.html

Not necessarily the case. There are some movements within that may be implemented on making a connection between Norway and frozen, meetings are ongoing....And I wouldnt judge the entire project solely on that one short dry lousy PR release, however yes the ride no doubt will be frozens characters/and stories. But dont give up on Imagineering and Norway just yet.

 

[flyerjab]

Isn't there a separate thread specifically for the Norway-Maelstrom-Frozen soap opera?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm quite sure Norway is happy to get whatever boost they can. No surprise they're advertising heavily as it's easy and cheap promotion with big results.

I hope they keep a ton of Norway ties to the ride, but i'm just expecting a cheaply done fantasy dark ride focusing on the movie instead of the culture. Imagineering has to do what the executives tell them. We'll see what occurs.

 

[wdwjmp239]

Disney should wait to make over Epcot until they're willing to have an actual plan for the whole park. Something like Project - Gemini.

I knew it!! Someone was going to mention Project Gemini! With Project Gemini pretty much giving Epcot a complete overhaul (which actually would be nice), expect park passes go up another $15-$30.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I am highly unimpressed with Project Gemini, i'm pretty glad it didn't happen for the most part. Future World underwent enough damage under Eisner's leadership and this would have ruined what scarce little dignity, quality and integrity it had left. But elements of it ended up occurring anyways including a character overlay for Living Seas, though it ended up being Nemo instead of Little Mermaid. Soarin was the only thing in it that felt ok, not that I don't miss Kitchen Kabaret but Soarin isn't a bad attraction (though i'd never wait in the absurd standby lines it routinely gets).

But the project also left a tremendously bad taste in my mouth with the plan to gut Spaceship Earth and build a roller coaster in its place. I almost throw up a little at the thought, and am very grateful it never happened (i've heard tell that the structure couldn't support such a coaster without a rebuild so i'm glad a roadblock stopped the horrible idea). Losing Horizons, World of Motion and the original Imagination was bad enough without turning the centerpiece icon of the park into an abomination as well...

 

[mahnamahna101]

I am highly unimpressed with Project Gemini, i'm pretty glad it didn't happen for the most part. Future World underwent enough damage under Eisner's leadership and this would have ruined what scarce little dignity, quality and integrity it had left. But elements of it ended up occurring anyways including a character overlay for Living Seas, though it ended up being Nemo instead of Little Mermaid. Soarin was the only thing in it that felt ok, not that I don't miss Kitchen Kabaret but Soarin isn't a bad attraction (though i'd never wait in the absurd standby lines it routinely gets).

But the project also left a tremendously bad taste in my mouth with the plan to gut Spaceship Earth and build a roller coaster in its place. I almost throw up a little at the thought, and am very grateful it never happened (i've heard tell that the structure couldn't support such a coaster without a rebuild so i'm glad a roadblock stopped the horrible idea). Losing Horizons, World of Motion and the original Imagination was bad enough without turning the centerpiece icon of the park into an abomination as well...

Really, aside from Time Racers, I would say Project Gemini wasn't that bad.

Say an Epcot overhaul includes...

1. New pavillion to replace WoL with E-ticket
2. Spaceship Earth revamp (with actual finale)
3. Universe of Energy revamp
4. Imagination overhaul
5. Rainforest coaster added to The Land (not as a replacement)
6. 3rd and 4th theaters for Soarin'
7. Jr. Autopia by Test Track
8. Expansion of Mission: SPACE pavillion (something family-friendly)

That doesn't sound that bad to me... sure tickets might go up, but it would add family-friendly alternatives to TT and M:S, expand Soarin's capacity, fix three attractions/pavillions, finally give Epcot a roller-coaster (D ticket) without hurting SSE and get something going in WoL again.

 

[danlb_2000]

Isn't there a separate thread specifically for the Norway-Maelstrom-Frozen soap opera?

Well, the Frozen project is the only part of the "makeover" that we are sure is happening, so it seems appropriate to discuss here.

 

[flyerjab]

Well, the Frozen project is the only part of the "makeover" that we are sure is happening, so it seems appropriate to discuss here.

That was a half-hearted attempt at sarcasm. We should have a sarcasm emoticon (that is clearly understood as such).

 

[Brian Swan]

The only reason, and I mean the ONLY reason I could ever see it happening is that the clone wouldn't be as expensive as building a new ride, and it should be relatively quick (look at me, WDI being quick building something) to construct and the perfect area to build the ride in WS... I just think the Frozen ride is going to be a disaster with crowds. I'm really shocked that there isn't more concern about this because I think this could be a really, really serious problem and one they don't seem to be prepared for.

Looking at an aerial view of Norway, there is enough land next door between Norway and Mexico where they could build a switchback queue big enough to hold HOURS worth of Frozen-obsessed folks waiting for their 90 second ride. I haven't seen the blueprints for the building, but I can't imagine that there isn't a way to get people from the giant entrance doors to that side of the building... Or they could make it FPP only - thus guaranteeing that the only people who will get to ride are those staying on-site for at least 10-14 days...

But what about the inside? (1) Scrap the boat ride system; expensive to maintain/operate, would limit the "new" ride to the same too-short track, and how do you work the backwards section into any logical "storytelling". (2) Clone the ride system used in Monsters Inc Ride and Go Seek (Tokyo); huge savings on design costs, unique ride system to WDW, "flashlights" could easily become "wands", and you could have virtually any narrative you might want (i.e. not necessaarily retelling the story from the movie, but using the characters to tell a new story) - this would merge the interactivity of TSMM with the irrational popularity of Frozen, and because the interactivity would become the main feature, they could "go cheap" on the AA figures that populate the ride. Would likely become THE most popular ride in WDW. (3) Frozen mega-store; this will allow Disney to suck dry the wallets of the guests, but will leave Puffin's Roost in tact as a Norwegian shop and not a Frozen merchandising hell-hole. They could possibly position it so that the queue actually goes through half of it [you've been in line for 2 hours, you'll buy anything to get your whining kid to shut up] and the other half is for the post-show fleecing.