2007 Official Photography Contest Weekly TOPICS and RULES

DDuckFan130

Well-Known Member
The rules were put in place by Brad (aka speck76). I'm not sure of specific reasons, but I know it's annoying for me to scroll up, down, to the side to see an entire picture. And it would take the page longer to load.

Now, that's just me. I dunno how nibbs feels with all this :shrug:
 

Nicole220

Well-Known Member
There's another site I visit where there is no size limit. When people post trip reports, they use whatever size they want, and it is usually huge! The page takes forever to load, and it really messes up my computer...

I think the size limit is a good thing.
 

DDuckFan130

Well-Known Member
There's another site I visit where there is no size limit. When people post trip reports, they use whatever size they want, and it is usually huge! The page takes forever to load, and it really messes up my computer...

I think the size limit is a good thing.
That's the kind of scenario I'd like to avoid....I personally don't visit the picture of the day threads, but that's just me :lol:
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
There's another site I visit where there is no size limit. When people post trip reports, they use whatever size they want, and it is usually huge! The page takes forever to load, and it really messes up my computer...

I think the size limit is a good thing.

That's the kind of scenario I'd like to avoid....I personally don't visit the picture of the day threads, but that's just me :lol:

Okay, some size limit would be okay, but why so small? In an age where 17 inch monitors and high speed internet are standard (sorry to those with dialup, but you are living in the past), I think 700 x 525 is far too small. 1024 x 768 would be a good limit.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Could someone explain the size limit to me please? I understand bandwidth might be an issue, but why not strongly encourage people use free image hosting sites (which are extremely prevalent nowadays) to avoid that concern? Or make using larger photos contingent upon using an outside host (which would effectively 'force' anyone with common sense to use an outside host).

With picture of the day threads far exceeding the number of pictures this forum gets, and having no regulation, I just don't see this restriction as practical. Either add restrictions to those, or remove the restrictions from these, for consistency's sake. Especially considering the fact that this is a contest (I know it's for fun, but it's still a contest), I would think this would therefore be given 'bandwidth priority' over a picture-of-day thread. By limiting pictures to 700 x 525, you're limiting so much of the beautiful details in the pictures. What's the point in having this contest in the first place if only half of the pictures' detail can be made out? I'm not trying to cause any drama or anything, I just think an explanation here would be good; if there is no explanation outside of those I've anticipated, I think it might be time to reconsider the rules.
It is a good question and I will try to explain it, although, I didn't create the contests...only continued them, so whatever reason the original creator's of the contest had for making these rules, I don't know for sure. I only know educated guesses and I also only know why I continue them.

There is a set limit size b/c there has to be a fairness in these contests. I have to find a way to make a "fair" standard. It has been noted before, in previous contests, when I allowed photos to be of any size (the rules were in place, but I was very lenient on them at the time) that photos that were larger, sometimes had unfair advantages against other photos, that while beautiful, were smaller, so people didn't see them for the amazing photos that they were. And I got people who complained. With the way the contest is set up now, it is very fair and all photos are "equal." None have unfair advantages b/c of size.

Now, I noticed you said that when a photo is smaller, you don't notice all the details, however, if a photo is brilliant, you shouldn't need it to be bigger just to make it appear better. It will be great on it's on merits and not rely on the size to up that brillance.

I am not in control of the picture of the day threads...therefore, I have no say in what size photos are put in there...but these are contests that I run and I do have a say in what size I think photos should be.

I also do worry about bandwith. I don't want to create any problems for Steve here, at least no more than he already has to put up with. If I can help keep the bandwith usage down by keeping the sizes smaller, then good. He already has to pay enough for bandwith. This to me is fair.

I agree with what Regina and Nicole had to say about the sizing of the photos as well. Even though I have a large monitor (I think it's even bigger than my tv in my bedroom!), I still don't see all the photo on the screen when it is larger than 700x525. (My computer at work doesn't allow for that, and while my computer at home does, most of the time, I don't have my screen set in widescreen, AOL keeps it smaller). The "smaller" size allows for EVERYONE to see the images fully on their screens.

Also, it would take longer for images to load on the screen. While you may not care if someone has dial up or not...I have to take that into account b/c these contests are for everyone and I have to try to accomodate that.

In the 2 years that I have done these contests, the sizing issue has been the most discussed. It has been brought up to me multiple times, but I believe that the way the rules are set up is fair. It is not difficult to resize images to fit to the size that is stipulated. Sites like Photobucket have it easily accesible for you to do so. And many have things like Photoshop, which also makes it easier to resize images to the right size.

I am sorry that there are those of you who feel that this is "too small" a size for these contests...but as of right now, I am not changing my mind. Maybe when I do the contest for next year, I will up the size, but that's still something that I haven't decided yet and I think that you can understand why, at least from what I explained. B/c I am not just looking out for one person, I am attempting to be fair for all. And to me, 700x525 is a fair size. And everyone then has a somewhat "fair" advantage.
 

JML42691

Active Member
Figured that I would contribute somewhat to this. I am the the poster who continued the Picture of the Day Thread once it hit 5000 posts as it could cause bandwith problems for the site. Neither I nor the starter of the original Picture of the Day thread mentioned resizing the photos, it just never came to mind. For many people it can be an inconvienence to resize photos, and others find it annoying trying to view pictures that are as large as the size of the screen (myself included). If I were to request that picture sizes be smaller, then I would have faced criticism from many people about it. If the size of the pictures were to become a problem for people, then I would request that all photos be resized before posting, but who would there be to enforce this? I'm not a moderator and the thread is not a contest like the picture contests that nibs makes, also, there would be too many pictures for the mods to control, many more would be needed to help control this and eventually people would begin fighting over deleted photos. It would just lead to chaos.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Figured that I would contribute somewhat to this. I am the the poster who continued the Picture of the Day Thread once it hit 5000 posts as it could cause bandwith problems for the site. Neither I nor the starter of the original Picture of the Day thread mentioned resizing the photos, it just never came to mind. For many people it can be an inconvienence to resize photos, and others find it annoying trying to view pictures that are as large as the size of the screen (myself included). If I were to request that picture sizes be smaller, then I would have faced criticism from many people about it. If the size of the pictures were to become a problem for people, then I would request that all photos be resized before posting, but who would there be to enforce this? I'm not a moderator and the thread is not a contest like the picture contests that nibs makes, also, there would be too many pictures for the mods to control, many more would be needed to help control this and eventually people would begin fighting over deleted photos. It would just lead to chaos.
Don't worry, I'm not ripping on you for the sizes of the pictures in the photo of the day threads...but having the contest does allow me to stipulate what size pictures are used. (And trust me, even I've heard about sizing issues in this little area...I can imagine what kind of crap you'd get if you asked people to resize their photo of the day entries! :eek: But trust me, it's been chaos here before too! And it's not been pretty!)

But I am here to enforce the rules here. And I do it extremely fairly. I don't think that before, you would even get a warning that your photo disobeyed the rules in any way. You just wouldn't see your photo in that week's contest. ( At least I always try to give warning.) I believe therefore, that I also handle the resizing issue very understandingly. I've even re-sized images for some people who couldn't find ways to resize. That's how nice I am. So if it were really to be a problem...I could help alleviate it here.
 

JML42691

Active Member
Don't worry, I'm not ripping on you for the sizes of the pictures in the photo of the day threads...but having the contest does allow me to stipulate what size pictures are used...
Oh don't worry, I didn't mean it that way, I was just giving my input as the Picture of the Day Thread came up several times in this and I figured that I would give my $.02
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Oh don't worry, I didn't mean it that way, I was just giving my input as the Picture of the Day Thread came up several times in this and I figured that I would give my $.02
okely dokely! :D Thanks for your $.02. :)

It would definitely be an uproar if the rules were changed now in that thread though! :eek: I totally agree with that! Luckily, my rules have been in place since the inception of the contests. (I think!)
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
It is a good question and I will try to explain it, although, I didn't create the contests...only continued them, so whatever reason the original creator's of the contest had for making these rules, I don't know for sure. I only know educated guesses and I also only know why I continue them.

There is a set limit size b/c there has to be a fairness in these contests. I have to find a way to make a "fair" standard. It has been noted before, in previous contests, when I allowed photos to be of any size (the rules were in place, but I was very lenient on them at the time) that photos that were larger, sometimes had unfair advantages against other photos, that while beautiful, were smaller, so people didn't see them for the amazing photos that they were. And I got people who complained. With the way the contest is set up now, it is very fair and all photos are "equal." None have unfair advantages b/c of size.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of the photos in these contests are shot with digital cameras, and thus are at least 1024 x 768 in resolution. If participants can resize to 700 x 525, they can resize to 1024 x 768, too (or a compromise between the two sizes). That would still be a level playing field.

Now, I noticed you said that when a photo is smaller, you don't notice all the details, however, if a photo is brilliant, you shouldn't need it to be bigger just to make it appear better. It will be great on it's on merits and not rely on the size to up that brillance.

In the previous paragraph, you discussed wanting a standard of "fairness", however, brilliance is not something all photos will have equally (I assume you're talking about the photographic quality of brilliance, and not just using it as a synonym for "good"). There are plenty of great photographs that are great because of their complex subject matter, or the photographer's ability to capture an abnormal amount of detail in a low-light situation.

However, those photos may not be fairly judged in this contest because the scales are tilted in favor of simple-subject matter photos that are brilliant/bright. If you're aim is fairness, it should be such across the board. None of the rules of composition (or technical styles) should have an inherent advantage.

Further, an increase in size does not equal an increase in brilliance. A photo is only so brilliant, and unless altered with a photo editing program, is not going to increase in brilliance as it increases in size.

I am not in control of the picture of the day threads...therefore, I have no say in what size photos are put in there...but these are contests that I run and I do have a say in what size I think photos should be.

I also do worry about bandwith. I don't want to create any problems for Steve here, at least no more than he already has to put up with. If I can help keep the bandwith usage down by keeping the sizes smaller, then good. He already has to pay enough for bandwith. This to me is fair.

Fair enough, but my argument was one by comparison. If those threads aren't causing Steve problems (and there has been no explicit mentioning that they are, besides an early request to limit each person's post to one per day), an entire forum with less consumption shouldn't be a problem.

I agree with what Regina and Nicole had to say about the sizing of the photos as well. Even though I have a large monitor (I think it's even bigger than my tv in my bedroom!), I still don't see all the photo on the screen when it is larger than 700x525. (My computer at work doesn't allow for that, and while my computer at home does, most of the time, I don't have my screen set in widescreen, AOL keeps it smaller). The "smaller" size allows for EVERYONE to see the images fully on their screens.

800 x 600 would be larger than the current size, and that was industry standard for monitor resolution in 1999. Check your display properties in your control panel, if you can't see an image 1024 x 768 without scrolling, chances are your monitor is underperforming, or is archaic.

Also, it would take longer for images to load on the screen. While you may not care if someone has dial up or not...I have to take that into account b/c these contests are for everyone and I have to try to accomodate that.

This and the above issue are what worry me the most, because it's appealing to the lowest common denominator at the expense of quality. Would more people participate if some of the artistic quality of their images weren't lost? It's hard saying, I won't assume so. Would the quality of the contest be better overall? I wholeheartedly think it would. The quality of the pictures would be greater, and that's what's at the heart of the contest. Having dial-up or a small monitor doesn't preclude anyone from enjoying the contest. It will still be here for their consumption/participation, they just may not have the same ease of use as before.

However, the majority of us will get more enjoyment out of it, in my opinion, for the reasons stated above. The argument that this is not fair is analogous to expecting to race with a beat-up 1971 Charger against a group of 2007 Corvettes. Sure, you can still race, but if you expect the Corvettes to slow down to 50 mph because that's all the faster you can go, you're crazy. With time, technology allows for better things. To stay stuck in the past because not everyone has adapted to technology--despite the fact that most have--is a bad idea. The only thing that you'll accomplish by appealing to the lowest common denominator is stagnation.

In the 2 years that I have done these contests, the sizing issue has been the most discussed. It has been brought up to me multiple times, but I believe that the way the rules are set up is fair. It is not difficult to resize images to fit to the size that is stipulated. Sites like Photobucket have it easily accesible for you to do so. And many have things like Photoshop, which also makes it easier to resize images to the right size.

I am sorry that there are those of you who feel that this is "too small" a size for these contests...but as of right now, I am not changing my mind. Maybe when I do the contest for next year, I will up the size, but that's still something that I haven't decided yet and I think that you can understand why, at least from what I explained. B/c I am not just looking out for one person, I am attempting to be fair for all. And to me, 700x525 is a fair size. And everyone then has a somewhat "fair" advantage.

I thank you for taking the time to address my concerns. I understand there are individuals on both sides of the fence who would 'like things their way'. I hope I have made a convincing and respectful argument; I do not intend to offend those with whom I disagree, I just think despite this being a good-fun contest, it is a contest nonetheless, and the rules concerning it should be decided with careful deliberation. Thank you for your time.
 

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