18% Auto gratuity for Party of 6?

[General Zondag]

Just to be clear, servers in the US don't make minimum wage. They are exempt from minimum wage law. Most servers make between $3 and $5 an hour; most of their income comes from tips. If you're giving them 5% or nothing, you are stealing. That is unethical.

Regardless, no one forces anyone to become a server, they go in willingly. If servers expect a gratuity, they should earn it! If you like to give away your money, fine, just don't try to impose your ways on others.
It is my firm belief that if someone get rewarded for bad behaviour they will continue to behave badly, if you hold people accountable, they will learn not to take their jobs for granted.
I do not steal and I hold my behaviour to the highest standards. I tip when a tip is merited.

 

[BuddyThomas]

No - for several reasons

1) Exemptions vary state by state
2) They are still GUARANTEED minimum wage. The employer can simply take CREDIT for some of that wage based on expected tips vs paying out a higher fixed base wage. If the employee is still guaranteed minimum wage from their employer if tips don't cover the federal and state minimum wages.

Net result - they are still guaranteed a minimum wage just like all other employees.

Ha! Right on. You guys can throw this around all you want about waiters being guaranteed minimum wage but it doesn't mean it is true or if it is true, enforced.

As I have said before, when I worked lunch shifts at Planet Hollywood in Times Square, there were instances where I went in and was stiffed by so many clueless foreign tourists that I actually ended up PAYING to work there that day. BECAUSE as a waiter at most large, corporate restaurants, you get a print out at the end of your shift showing what your sales were, and what you have to tip out to the bartender, food runner, busboy, and hostess. So if I was not tipped, I still had to tip others. And Planet Hollywood NEVER made it up on our paycheck a, which incidentally were around forty or fifty bucks, after taxes, for a 40 hour workweek.

I also worked at a huge barbeque restaurant in Times Square that automatically added the gratuity to every single table after 9PM at night, because if they did not, every waiter would basically be working for free. I have a feeling it is the same at Disney. Do you really think the table of thirty cheerleaders is going to leave a standard tip? Please.

If Disney did not have this automatic gratuity policy, they would not be able to keep a staff.

And as others have said, go wait on tables for a week and then come back crying with your righteous indignation about being "forced" to leave a tip to someone making less than minimum wage.

 

[General Zondag]

If Disney did not have this automatic gratuity policy, they would not be able to keep a staff.

And as others have said, go wait on tables for a week and then come back crying with your righteous indignation about being "forced" to leave a tip to someone making less than minimum wage.

Yeah right, I started right at the top never had to struggle. Come on man, there was a time when I couldn't quite make ends meet, working two jobs and Mrs Gen one. But I didn't complain, I made sure I was the best that I could be at whatever I was doing, got something worth much more than the comfortable life we now live, I learned to earn what I got and to not expect that someone else was going to solve my problems for me.

I tip when I get good service, once a server stopped me on the way out 'cause he thought I'd made a mistake, not so I said, you earned it! (200% on a slice of pie and a coffee).

 

[flynnibus]

Ha! Right on. You guys can throw this around all you want about waiters being guaranteed minimum wage but it doesn't mean it is true or if it is true, enforced.

As I have said before, when I worked lunch shifts at Planet Hollywood in Times Square, there were instances where I went in and was stiffed by so many clueless foreign tourists that I actually ended up PAYING to work there that day. BECAUSE as a waiter at most large, corporate restaurants, you get a print out at the end of your shift showing what your sales were, and what you have to tip out to the bartender, food runner, busboy, and hostess. So if I was not tipped, I still had to tip others. And Planet Hollywood NEVER made it up on our paycheck a, which incidentally were around forty or fifty bucks, after taxes, for a 40 hour workweek.

Careful - the details matter. You have to be paid the wage over the work period - that means in an isolated period yes you may make less than the hourly wage (you get stiffed all night) - but over the pay period you had to be paid at least the Wages/hours greater or equal to minimum wage. Where individuals feel robbed is your above average tips are also pooled with your below average tips.. it's never money that 'over this limit comes off the table'. So the employer credit rarely comes out to play because your tips as a whole tend to greatly outweigh the employer credit.

So, I expect in your example, your '$40 or $50' you mention is your 'good tips' money that is offsetting your bad tips.. not that you were paid $40 or $50 below the minimum wage over the pay period.

If you were truely collecting less than minimum wage over the pay period - that's a piece of cake lawsuit any lawyer would have been eager to take up as a class action.

The tipout on sales vs collected tips is a grey area that I do wish someone would challenge and cleanup.

And as others have said, go wait on tables for a week and then come back crying with your righteous indignation about being "forced" to leave a tip to someone making less than minimum wage.

Or as others may say... go and bust your tail for a long time so you don't have to wait tables Its funny how its so aweful.. yet people continue to do that work vs other job opportunities.

In my minimum wage days living at the beach... I worked two jobs to meet my goal of clearing $200/week.. while my roommate was a waitress and would bring home $100 a night on a 4hr shift. My other roommates worked in food prep, and made way more than me as well. But I wanted the easy beach bum life.. and all the auntie anne pretzels I could eat Before that, I cleaned office buildings because it paid a good $1 more than minimum wage (and I worked with my friends). After that, I worked grocery stores, because again, they paid well above minimum wage.

If you don't want to risk the downside - don't work in a risk/reward pay system. Pretty sure McDonalds is always hiring.

 

[Lord_Vader]

I highlight this because it reminds me of a recent observation on some of my travels of late. We were eating in restaurants in a foreign city... where tipping is almost zero. If you tip 10%, they think you are leaving them a golden egg. Waiters, taxis, etc.. you don't tip.

The first night we were at a sushi place sitting at a table, where they served 3-5 predetermined courses. The second night, we were at another style of place, again table service that served 4 different courses. Neither place was exceptionally a stand-out... just locations we picked out of the many choices you have in an urban center. The thing that stood out is... enough it made me really take note of it was... just how much time and personalized service each waiter gave us. Each time fully explaining the plate, even offering suggestions on sequence of tasting for max effect, the sources of the food, etc etc. It was like having a personal chef walk you through a meal catered just to you. All that... and these guys don't get tipped at all! Meanwhile back in America, people get upset they don't get 20% for doing the BASIC JOB of actual bringing the plates and drinks without screwing up the order.

The experience is night and day... and I don't think the 'automatic tip' mentality helps it at all. I find most WDW dining service to be on par or only slightly better than most chain places. At least on DCL they move it up a full level.. but I would tell you the service I got from random places in Oslo still beat our DCL servers.

The only people that like the current gratuity system are the owner/operators of restaurants. In the US the system is completely out of line with wage norms, I completely agree with your assessment. Waitstaff (bus staff, hostesses, bartenders and all) should be paid as a professional based on service level, trained and be expected to provide a service for their wage.

Locally, most service is terrible because as a profession waiting tablesis an unreliable source of income and primarily cash based. Servers jump from restaurant to restaurant as they open alway chasing better tips resulting in constant turnover and overall poor service all around. Owners like it because they have a large pool of very inexpensive, quickly trained (poorly I might add) workers. IMO you get what you pay for, I would rather pay 25% more as a base charge and get great service than what we have today. We treat service workers in general as unskilled labor because we don't value service as a society.

WDW by comparison is generally superior except for very high end restaurants where they are about the same or slightly worse. Five diamond restaurants here pay their servers well, many have gone through a year or more of training or schooling to do their duty and are paid accordingly and get gratuities.

 

[BuddyThomas]

The only people that like the current gratuity system are the owner/operators of restaurants. In the US the system is completely out of line with wage norms, I completely agree with your assessment. Waitstaff (bus staff, hostesses, bartenders and all) should be paid as a professional based on service level, trained and be expected to provide a service for their wage.

Locally, most service is terrible because as a profession waiting tablesis an unreliable source of income and primarily cash based. Servers jump from restaurant to restaurant as they open alway chasing better tips resulting in constant turnover and overall poor service all around. Owners like it because they have a large pool of very inexpensive, quickly trained (poorly I might add) workers. IMO you get what you pay for, I would rather pay 25% more as a base charge and get great service than what we have today. We treat service workers in general as unskilled labor because we don't value service as a society.

WDW by comparison is generally superior except for very high end restaurants where they are about the same or slightly worse. Five diamond restaurants here pay their servers well, many have gone through a year or more of training or schooling to do their duty and are paid accordingly and get gratuities.

What are you possibly basing this on? You have made it clear in every post that you find waiters to be lazy and give horrible service in general and that they deserve nothing. I've rarely had bad service and I am wondering if you can give me specific examples of where I can find all these lazy and entitled waiters so I can avoid those restaurants.

 

[Lord_Vader]

What are you possibly basing this on? You have made it clear in every post that you find waiters to be lazy and give horrible service in general and that they deserve nothing. I've rarely had bad service and I am wondering if you can give me specific examples of where I can find all these lazy and entitled waiters so I can avoid those restaurants.

Not me, I said service where I live is terrible. I travel enough to various locations throughout this country and have experienced good service in general, especially WDW. Locally, service industry workers are treated very poorly which creates a cause and effect issue because the only people willing to work in most chains are not the most self driven people therefore provide adequate at best results.

We do have great service at higher end restaurants (not Outback, Applebee's, etc.) but the chains are mostly unacceptable. We still tip well if and when we have barely acceptable service because the servers deserve a wage to live, usually the tip we leave is more charity than for good service here. I almost always tip at or above 20%, more on mixed drinks and wine only less if the service top down is simply abysmal.

As an example, a few years ago we visited The Olive Garden, my son ordered a pizza which was never brought to the table, the rest of us received our food, the server repeatedly appologized, went back and forth, promised it is almost out over and over again, for a full half hour.. no pizza. Drink refills never occurred, Breadsticks were cold when delivered, but she did bring us our check after continuing to forget but the pizza had never been rung up, mixed drinks we didn't order were on our check and a desert we didn't order and the response from her was are you sure?

Maybe my point doesn't always come across well, I believe in general we treat all service workers, public servants included, very poorly in the US. I however do not agree with their treatment and pay in general which is why I tend to eat at four and five diamond restaurants, I get what I pay for even if it is more pensive. The higher level of quality and service at better restaurants is always worth the extra cost in my eyes which is why I question those here complaining about the costs at WDW.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

What in the world are you eating? 3 courses each?

We just had dinner for an occasion last night at Uncle Julios.. a more expensive mexican chain. Still $94 for 3 meals including 2 alcoholic drinks. Looking Chili's menu... I can't find an entree for more than $18

The only time we break $40/head at home is at the Japanese Steakhouse... certainly not at your Chilis/Applebees/TGIF/Outback/etc

2 appetizers, 2 entrees, and dessert with tax and tip. Appetizers are around $7-8 each. Entrees are around $12-15 each. Add it up. You get to $40 without a tip pretty quick. We usually get excellent service, so leave the 20% tip. We will sometimes split a dessert. The 2 for $20 menu doesn't have what we like, so we order separately. Sometimes it's less, if we split an appetizer. Sometimes more if we add a few margaritas.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I was wondering as well. We were at $65ish the other day with 2 adult entrees, kid entree, dessert, app AND 4 adult beverages.

I don't know how you can do that at Chili's. We usually get the patron margaritas that cost about $10 apiece, so 4 adult beverages would be $40 by itself. I guess you can go much lower end to pay less, but that is just us. The entrees are about $12-15 each, so $25-30 just for them. Are you adding in tax and tip for the $65? My totals have included the tax (8 1/2% here) and tip.

 

[flynnibus]

2 appetizers, 2 entrees, and dessert with tax and tip. Appetizers are around $7-8 each. Entrees are around $12-15 each. Add it up. You get to $40 without a tip pretty quick. We usually get excellent service, so leave the 20% tip.

Thanks for elaborating. But we call this a 'boundary case' - this is a situation that only happens when you are at the extreme edge and not really representative of the norm. Full three courses, expensive plates, etc.

 

[flynnibus]

We treat service workers in general as unskilled labor because we don't value service as a society.

Or simply because it is unskilled labor - it's work you can do without prior education or vocational training and can be taught what you need to do relatively quickly. You need personal skills to succeed - but it is a job you can take untrained people in and put them to work quickly - that's what unskilled means.

I tip well and I appreciate the the level of service I get when it's good. But I know I can get great service the same from an 18yr old high school kid the same as I can from a career waiter. I don't need a sommelier when I'm at IHOP, but if you know the menu, are polite, engaged, are prompt, get our orders correct, and make it so I'm not trying to find you... you've done a good job. You don't need years of waiter school for that.

 

[Otterhead]

I tip when a tip is merited.

Where I live, if you leave a 5% tip or less than 10%, really, you will be called out on it. A manager will follow you out the door and find out what the problem was. It is not unheard of to be banned from restaurants for leaving low tips. Please remember that tips do not just go to your server -- they go to the entire staff.

 

[General Zondag]

Where I live, if you leave a 5% tip or less than 10%, really, you will be called out on it. A manager will follow you out the door and find out what the problem was. It is not unheard of to be banned from restaurants for leaving low tips. Please remember that tips do not just go to your server -- they go to the entire staff.

If anyone asks why I'll gladly state my reasons. Any place that does not want my business is one I don't want to go to anyway.
The thing is, you and I see the world very differently and that's OK. I don't want to force you to change your ways, please respect mine. I sense an air of dislike in your comments, and really I'm a lovable guy!
Compulsory gratuities (IMHO) foster bland service. If a server tries to do the best job, but no matter how good he/she is, they get the same amount as the slaker in the group, sooner or later, they too will lower their efforts. On the other hand if a slaker noticies that they get far lower tips than the good ones, they will elevate their service.
I'm a proud advocate in personal responsibility and of the free market, I will tip when a tip is earned, giving tips just because with no expectation of good service fosters mediocrity.
I always tip in cash and personally give it to my server with a word of thanks.

 

[General Zondag]

- they go to the entire staff.

Other staff who notice a slaker server that does not bring in good tips, will (or should) pressure said server to do a better job and give good service!

 

[Otterhead]

The thing is, you and I see the world very differently and that's OK. I don't want to force you to change your ways, please respect mine. I sense an air of dislike in your comments, and really I'm a lovable guy!

I don't know you, so of course there's no "dislike" here. I'm just expressing the realities and consequences of stiffing servers on a tip. Where I live, it's unthinkable unless your server did something like insult you, fail to bring your food, or disappeared entirely (all things that've happened to me that resulted in me not leaving a tip, which I discussed with the manager while doing so). If you leave a low tip around here because you just don't feel they did a fantastic job, I doubt you'd be allowed to eat there again. It's taken very seriously by most restaurants. I imagine at WDW, they're fairly used to people leaving low or no tip, which I imagine led to a lot of mandatory 18% rules

 

[lunchbox1175]

I like how there has been inflation on almost everything in this country except for tipping......the standard 15% started in the 70's, and while cost of living has dramatically increased, server wages have not. The only inflation comes from the fact that the cost of a meal has risen, so automatically the tip amount has risen. In my experience, most people that have issues with tip amounts don't understand the industry or how the people make their money. I know many a parent that changed their tipping habits after seeing what their children go thru working as servers. I think what people don't realize is that during the course of an 8 hour shift, the servers probably only wait tables for an average of 5 hours of that, so when calculating out your hourly wage, throw in 3 of those hours at a rate of $3.00/hr. While i can understand the notion that buffet servers don't seem to do as much as other restaurant servers, the standard of 18% was created for a couple reasons, one being that there are people that have lower tipping standards. There are more people in this world that are going to tip a specific amount no matter what, they could get the most outstanding service in the world, and still only tip 10%, the automatic gratuity helps to protect the server, cause lets face it, until the government steps in (which oh by the way will never happen as the National Restaurant Association is one of the largest political action comittees in the country and donates huge amounts of money every year in order to keep this from happening) and changes the wage policy for servers, they will continue to take advantage of making the guest pay server salaries. The second reason, (and this is where i take issue with WDW's Party of 6 rule) stems from having to combine tables to accomodate large parties. Typically when you have a party of 8 or more, it requires pushing two or more tables together in order to seat them. This more often than not hurts the server for a couple of reasons....usually when there is a party that size, it includes children, which means lower total tab, and a longer stay at the table, even without children, a party of 8 adults is probably going to hang out an socialize.....which is no big deal, you should get together, take your time and have fun, but when a server has two tables taken up by one party for 2 hours, they are losing money. They could have turned that table a few times with parties of two or four, had a much larger total guest count, larger sales, and higher tips.....the majority of servers hate having large parties because it costs them money usually.....so the automatic gratuity helps them there. And if you are wondering why would restaurants want to help them, because if you don't, they will leave, and then you will have massive turnover all the time and lose money because of training and mistakes.

The worst is when they wont allow you not to tip the auto on a few 200 bottle of wine.... Wedding at Four seasons they will not split it out.... I OBJECT TO THAT AS WELLL

There is a simple solution for this, if they will not remove the auto gratuity from the bill, let them run your credit card, it will show the auto gratuity amount on the receipt that you sign. Go ahead and cross it out, tip what you want and total what you want, then sign and leave at the table. If the charge shows up on your CC statement, call and dispute it. Once you have disputed it, the restaurant has to provide the signed copy to your CC Company, and at that point they will refund the charge. Also, the manager that refused to remove the auto grat is going to ge an earful from his HQ about it.

 

[yedliW]

I like how there has been inflation on almost everything in this country except for tipping......the standard 15% started in the 70's, and while cost of living has dramatically increased, server wages have not. The only inflation comes from the fact that the cost of a meal has risen, so automatically the tip amount has risen. In my experience, most people that have issues with tip amounts don't understand the industry or how the people make their money. I know many a parent that changed their tipping habits after seeing what their children go thru working as servers. I think what people don't realize is that during the course of an 8 hour shift, the servers probably only wait tables for an average of 5 hours of that, so when calculating out your hourly wage, throw in 3 of those hours at a rate of $3.00/hr.

Inflation has caused the 'wages' (read: tips) of servers.. 18% of $15 is more than 18% of $10.. The wage of servers has gone up on a 1:1 ratio with inflation.. most other jobs don't have that sort of exact/immediate relation to inflation..

On another note, why should it be the customers' responsibility to make sure the servers are paid? I understand that it has been custom, and as a result, a lower minimum wage exists, allowing restaurants an advantage in lower workforce costs when compared to other industries.. why is it fair that Chilis can pay their servers a lower rate than McDonald's can, with the assumption that the Chilis customers are going to pick up the difference? Perhaps it's time to raise across the board the costs of food 15-18% and pay the servers the difference, and stop 'guilting' customers to directly pay the labor costs of certain business sectors, or cut everybody's wages and force customers to tip everyone.. lets start with the people that bag your groceries..

 

[Lord_Vader]

Or simply because it is unskilled labor - it's work you can do without prior education or vocational training and can be taught what you need to do relatively quickly. You need personal skills to succeed - but it is a job you can take untrained people in and put them to work quickly - that's what unskilled means.

I tip well and I appreciate the the level of service I get when it's good. But I know I can get great service the same from an 18yr old high school kid the same as I can from a career waiter. I don't need a sommelier when I'm at IHOP, but if you know the menu, are polite, engaged, are prompt, get our orders correct, and make it so I'm not trying to find you... you've done a good job. You don't need years of waiter school for that.

That is the crux of the problem, great service is not a low skill job as it takes years of work experience to learn subtle differences.

There is a great difference between simply taking and order, bringing drinks/refills, food and a ticket and providing a dining experience This includes anticipating a guests needs rather than asking, if you have to ask then the server is not providing a silent high level of service. For example at Tutto Italian the staff will constantly top off beverages, automatically bring bread, crumb your table and take pride in the service they are providing as opposed to a constant would you like more x, y or z. A truly great service staff is almost transparent except for introductions and order placement and delivery/presentation.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Inflation has caused the 'wages' (read: tips) of servers.. 18% of $15 is more than 18% of $10.. The wage of servers has gone up on a 1:1 ratio with inflation.. most other jobs don't have that sort of exact/immediate relation to inflation..

On another note, why should it be the customers' responsibility to make sure the servers are paid? I understand that it has been custom, and as a result, a lower minimum wage exists, allowing restaurants an advantage in lower workforce costs when compared to other industries.. why is it fair that Chilis can pay their servers a lower rate than McDonald's can, with the assumption that the Chilis customers are going to pick up the difference? Perhaps it's time to raise across the board the costs of food 15-18% and pay the servers the difference, and stop 'guilting' customers to directly pay the labor costs of certain business sectors, or cut everybody's wages and force customers to tip everyone.. lets start with the people that bag your groceries..

You're not from the U.S, are you?

 

[Otterhead]

Perhaps it's time to raise across the board the costs of food 15-18% and pay the servers the difference, and stop 'guilting' customers to directly pay the labor costs of certain business sectors

I would love it if the American tipping system went away, and we adopted the system that a big chunk of the world already uses: paying a living wage. I just went to Australia, and while food was definitely more expensive, there was zero expectation of a tip -- wages are built into food prices. Tips are to reward exceptional service there. Sadly, the burden is solidly on the patron in the US.