“EPCOT”’s New Name

[RobWDW1971]

I don't get the obsession over the theming of the Guardians of the Galaxy rides. Radiator Springs never had anything to do with California either, and predated the reskin of ToT by years.

Exactly. And that park should have changed its name as well as it has nothing to do with the original overall concept of celebrating California. You’re supporting my point. That name is at best meaningless and at worst confusing.

It just now really means “not Disneyland”.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Guardians roller coasters, Moana water areas, Nemo ride telling the Finding Nemo story, and giant sky bars could be at any park around the world.

Or a Ratatouille ride copied from Disney Studios Paris. A park also getting a Frozen boat ride and a Marvel roller coaster.

 

[bryanfze55]

I don’t see anybody making the argument that Epcot should stay as it is forever. The argument is that whether changes and investment should be under a cohesive theme or just a series of random IP attractions. This argument of “anything is better than what’s there today” or “anything is better than nothing” is not relevant to the discussion. Everybody wants new and exciting attractions in Epcot (and every park).

If they want to build IP attractions without a larger cohesive theme for the park, that is their choice. Just don’t insult our intelligence by pretending there is a theme and then doubling down on the cynicism of using the retro Epcot logos

Be bold enough to create either a new theme and name or just admit there isn’t one and move on.

It’s like keeping the name California Adventure and then building The Collector’s outer space museum. If you’ve given up on the creative concept of the park, fine, change the name.

A well thought out argument, and I think the theme park attractions should mesh with the larger theme of the park. But there’s no reason the park can’t keep the name EPCOT, just like there’s no reason California Adventure can’t keep its name simply because it’s built some attractions that aren’t California-themed. To me, a name is a name and doesn’t change the theme park experience. Animal Kingdom isn’t all about animals (see Pandora), it’s about man’s relationship with nature. But I don’t see anyone complaining that it isn’t called “Nature Kingdom.”

For what it’s worth, I first visited Epcot in 2016. I have no passion for 80s or 90s Epcot, because I was unfortunately not able to experience it. From my view, I feel like I’m spending a ton of money to enter the park and the primary draw is spending more money on food, drink, and shopping in World Showcase. The only two rides I have any love for are Living with the Land and Spaceship Earth (hence, I’m sure I would have loved classic Epcot).

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Disney EPCOT.

The new park will be to EPCOT what DHS, DAK and DCA are to Hollywood, animals and California.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Of course there's name recognition and value attached to the names EPCOT and Epcot Center. Nobody's arguing that there isn't. But changing the themes of the park doesn't somehow invalidate the name, because the name was never the theme.

Symbolism of form, imagery and even language are a key aspect of what makes a themed experience work.

 

[Ravenclaw78]

Exactly. And that park should have changed its name as well as it has nothing to do with the original overall concept of celebrating California. You’re supporting my point. That name is at best meaningless and at worst confusing.

It just now really means “not Disneyland”.

I do support your point about DCA, since its name (much like Hollywood Studios) does have an inherent meaning that is no longer reflected its contents. I just don't get blaming GotG for the lack of consistent theme in DCA when it's only the latest symptom, just as I don't get everyone using Epcot's GotG coaster as the poster child for the decline of that park instead of something much earlier like The Seas with Nemo and Friends.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I do support your point about DCA, since its name (much like Hollywood Studios) does have an inherent meaning that is no longer reflected its contents. I just don't get blaming GotG for the lack of consistent theme in DCA when it's only the latest symptom, just as I don't get everyone using Epcot's GotG coaster as the poster child for the decline of that park instead of something much earlier like The Seas with Nemo and Friends.

Scale and scope. Removing the relatively cheap and simple Finding Nemo elements from the Seas Pavilion would be magnitudes easier than removing a massive roller coaster that somehow costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I do support your point about DCA, since its name (much like Hollywood Studios) does have an inherent meaning that is no longer reflected its contents. I just don't get blaming GotG for the lack of consistent theme in DCA when it's only the latest symptom, just as I don't get everyone using Epcot's GotG coaster as the poster child for the decline of that park instead of something much earlier like The Seas with Nemo and Friends.

Simply because they are the most recent and egregious examples. There was plenty of similar comments when Bugs Land, Mermaid, Cars Land, Monsters, Inc, etc. were being built as the company made it clear they were moving away from the fundamental concept of the park.

Just (pardon the expression) man up, declare there is no theme, change the name, and move on.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I don't get everyone using Epcot's GotG coaster as the poster child for the decline of that park instead of something much earlier like The Seas with Nemo and Friends.

It's a bigger physical transformation, so it's impact is more noticeable . They're both to blame, but Nemo was more decoration. At the very least, they did not get rid of the aquariums or restaurant. They could in theory go back to a Sea Base theme. GotG is a giant new building on top of the gutting and complete removal of UoE.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Simply because they are the most recent and egregious examples. There was plenty of similar comments when Bugs Land, Mermaid, Cars Land, Monsters, Inc, etc. were being built as the company made it clear they were moving away from the fundamental concept of the park.

Just (pardon the expression) man up, declare there is no theme, change the name, and move on.

Also the ToT/Mission: Breakout building is huge and visible throughout the resort. It's impact is felt even if you have no interest in riding it.

 

[tissandtully]

Well, they did have the new name on the road sign up for a little bit

 

[bryanfze55]

Simply because they are the most recent and egregious examples. There was plenty of similar comments when Bugs Land, Mermaid, Cars Land, Monsters, Inc, etc. were being built as the company made it clear they were moving away from the fundamental concept of the park.

Because the original fundamental concept sucked, or at least Disney’s execution of the concept sucked. So because Cars isn’t “California,” the park would be better off without it? It’s a really well-themed land. For what it’s worth, I do think DCA was better before Pixar Pier and the Guardians overlay. But California was a bad theme from the beginning. Why do we need a California theme IN California? It’s now basically just Disney’s version of Universal Studios. But I don’t think that mandates a name change. It’s still a Disney Park in California. Sure, there’s no cohesive overarching theme. It’s a hodge-podge of themed lands. But is that really any different than Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom?

 

[RobWDW1971]

For what it’s worth, I first visited Epcot in 2016. I have no passion for 80s or 90s Epcot, because I was unfortunately not able to experience it. From my view, I feel like I’m spending a ton of money to enter the park and the primary draw is spending more money on food, drink, and shopping in World Showcase. The only two rides I have any love for are Living with the Land and Spaceship Earth (hence, I’m sure I would have loved classic Epcot).

if you haven’t read it, there is a great book that was published at its opening that gives you a sense of the groundbreaking scale, artistry, and vision that the park represented when it opened. Great book.

Walt Disney's Epcot Center: Creating the New World of Tomorrow https://www.amazon.com/dp/0810908190/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Vt3cEbVVMTF39

 

[TomDisney]

Magic Kingdom 2. Because we ran out of room over there.

 

[bryanfze55]

if you haven’t read it, there is a great book that was published at its opening that gives you a sense of the groundbreaking scale, artistry, and vision that the park represented when it opened. Great book.

Walt Disney's Epcot Center: Creating the New World of Tomorrow https://www.amazon.com/dp/0810908190/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Vt3cEbVVMTF39

thanks, will check it out.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Because the original fundamental concept sucked, or at least Disney’s execution of the concept sucked. So because Cars isn’t “California,” the park would be better off without it? It’s a really well-themed land. For what it’s worth, I do think DCA was better before Pixar Pier and the Guardians overlay. But California was a bad theme from the beginning. Why do we need a California theme IN California? It’s now basically just Disney’s version of Universal Studios. But I don’t think that mandates a name change. It’s still a Disney Park in California. Sure, there’s no cohesive overarching theme. It’s a hodge-podge of themed lands. But is that really any different than Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom?

I never defended the California theme in fact I found it to be a curious and limiting choice when it was announced. If the company has given up on it (which I fully understand why they did), then either come up with a new theme or just make it “Disney’s Adventure Park” and stop confusing the issue and making it even more of a jumbled mess with the Buena Vista expansion.

Again, the conversation is not about whether Radiator Springs Racers or Guardians are great attractions and the parks are more fun with them - it is about whether it is important, or even critical, to have a cohesive theme.

Clearly many people (and I think WDI by their actions) are saying that it isn’t. I just disagree and believe this move to generic parks will hurt the brand and any long-term emotional connection to the various parks.

They truly are all just becoming “Disney Parks”.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Because the original fundamental concept sucked, or at least Disney’s execution of the concept sucked. So because Cars isn’t “California,” the park would be better off without it? It’s a really well-themed land. For what it’s worth, I do think DCA was better before Pixar Pier and the Guardians overlay. But California was a bad theme from the beginning. Why do we need a California theme IN California? It’s now basically just Disney’s version of Universal Studios. But I don’t think that mandates a name change. It’s still a Disney Park in California. Sure, there’s no cohesive overarching theme. It’s a hodge-podge of themed lands. But is that really any different than Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom?

We often celebrate things where they are located. California is a great place to celebrate the ideas and dreams of California. The name was chosen to reflect that celebration, not the physical location of the park.

Carland did fit the idea of celebrating California beautifully.

Magic Kingdom 2. Because we ran out of room over there.

Expect the Magic Kingdom is not as this suggests.

 

[Brer Oswald]

It doesn't have a fairytale castle...

It has everything but.

 

[Andrew C]

Epcot died along time ago in the late 90's/ early 2000's. I welcome the changes coming rather than a dead carcass of a park... That being said it should always be named Epcot.

yeah. It has “not been Epcot” longer than it has “been Epcot.” Whether or not this new design is going to be good, the Epcot people seem to miss was ruined over 20 years ago now. I guess this overhaul confirms what we have known for the past two decades?

 

[networkpro]

yeah. It has “not been Epcot” longer than it has “been Epcot.” Whether or not this new design is going to be good, the Epcot people seem to miss was ruined over 20 years ago now. I guess this overhaul confirms what we have known for the past two decades?

The horror! You'll get a strongly worded diatribe from the Museum faction explaining exactly how they should bring back excelsior stuffed mannequins and lectures about the proper way to bast a Dodo .