Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ToTBellHop]

Just jumped back in here and I see we are talking about speed limit reductions and obesity. I’m guessing the flu vs. Covid is next again. Feels like may of 2020 again.

We will be discussing the merits of bleach tomorrow. Next week, we will be celebrating Maskless Monday!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

She, would be Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control. Hard to juxtapose that line of hers with the same one of doom and gloom though. So it's CDC data.

I don’t think they’re trying to manipulate the message beyond this:

Keeping the precautions in place and pushing the vaccines is no question the safest route with the greatest chance of success for everything.

the fact there is even the slightest inkling of dispute is a really bad reflection.

 

[GoofGoof]

Except the mRNA vaccine(s) are the first of it's(their) kind. So to assume we know long term side effects (if any) is presumptuous. First of it's kind can lead to first of it's kind long term problems.

With that knowledge, it shouldn't be shocking that some people are concerned about long term effects of the vaccine.

The JnJ vaccine is not mRNA and is not based on new technology. Millions of people worldwide have received an Ebola vaccine and one for another disease which slips my mind that use the same exact technology. Those vaccines have been around for years and have no long term side effects. You are certainly entitled to do whatever you want with getting the vaccine or not but if your true concern is just that mRNA is too new technology then get the JnJ vaccine. Problem solved.

This isn’t directed at you specifically Dan, just a general comment. We need enough people to get the vaccines to end the pandemic. Many countries are struggling greatly to get enough vaccine doses for their people. We will have enough vaccine for every adult who wants it in 6 weeks time. It will be tragic if we don’t beat this virus because too many people are afraid of the vaccines. The powers that be need to do a better job educating the public about these vaccines and people need to be willing to listen and have an open mind. The government will never mandate vaccines so it’s up to the people to decide for themselves.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

They do work though. Studies have shown this. Real life has shown this.

I'm being honest and asking without malice. What are you really afraid of? That was a simple opinion piece. Not data driven. People correct you and you seem to not want to let go and listen. So what's at the root of this for you? Circular arguments help no one.

Simply put, I have no need to fear getting covid due to my age and level of health. Therefore, it's my choice to not put something into my body that I don't want to. Everyone should have that choice. The same way people have the choice to drive fast, drink alcohol, etc. (Yes I know the response "and they have the choice to deny you entry, etc. etc.")

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not. Anti-vaxxers take things to the extreme, but pro-vaxxers do to.

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine? Life has risks and it's not my responsibility to keep other people safe. And nobody can say that is selfish if you've ever gone over the speed limit, drank maybe a little too much then drove home, and so on.

Do the 70,000 people who die every year from the flu not matter? If they do, then masks and distancing should come back every flu season, right? The people who are all for vaccines and masks for another few months don't mention this from what I've seen.

 

[Disney Experience]

Then if your biggest concern is the remote possibility of autoimmune diseases, see my original response. That happens as soon as the self-reacting B and T cells mature, which is days to weeks later, not months to years. And we simply haven't observed a spike in autoimmune conditions with the current COVID vaccines, even after hundreds of millions of recipients have passed through that time window.

I agree. When it was just the few (15000+ Pfizer, 15000 Moderna worldwide) people like me having been vaccinated in MRNA Phase 3 trials, I could understand someone not wanting to get vaccinated right after EUA. Letting others take it and see if there are problems that occur less frequently than 1 in 15000 [such as perhaps autoimmune disease] is a reasonable choice (Though I think the risks of covid is greater than that). Once tens of millions are fully vaccinated, and a few months pass, then it starts to get very difficult for me to understand why someone who has no exclusionary condition not taking it (Unless they live somewhere like New Zealand, even then I would take it).

I do not see a reason for someone to wait years before taking it in order to minimize their overall health risks. Risks of Covid in that time outweigh the risks of a vaccine already in the arms of millions.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

The flu is significantly less deadly than COVID, plus the flu does not leave behind lingering after effects which inflict collateral damage to other parts of your body. I also take your comment as somewhat insulting to older people, as if they deserved to die. Pray that your parents, relatives and friends remain healthy. And never forget that there have been those in their twenties who passed away due to COVID in less than a week.

Wanna take into consideration the date I posted that comment?

We've come a long way since February 2020 and have learned a lot.

My parents are in their mid 70's.
My family has been very lucky that none of us have gotten it or anything else in the past 1+ year.
My dad and sister are fully vaccinated.
Myself and my mom get our second dose tomorrow.
My other sister and her husband will be getting their first dose April 17th.
My one niece will be eligible next week.

Right now the biggest thing on my mind is that my dad had back surgery and his recovery has been very difficult and emotionally/physically exhausting for everyone and we're only 8 days post op.

 

[Disney Experience]

Simply put, I have no need to fear getting covid due to my age and level of health. Therefore, it's my choice to not put something into my body that I don't want to. Everyone should have that choice. The same way people have the choice to drive fast, drink alcohol, etc. (Yes I know the response "and they have the choice to deny you entry, etc. etc.")

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not. Anti-vaxxers take things to the extreme, but pro-vaxxers do to.

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine? Life has risks and it's not my responsibility to keep other people safe. And nobody can say that is selfish if you've ever gone over the speed limit, drank maybe a little too much then drove home, and so on.

Do the 70,000 people who die every year from the flu not matter? If they do, then masks and distancing should come back every flu season, right? The people who are all for vaccines and masks for another few months don't mention this from what I've seen.

One reason is altruism. Helping decrease covid in the world by being vaccinated and not transmitting it to others can be a selfless act. I agree if one only wishes to act selfishly and accepts the low risk in their age/with no morbidities, then no problem. But being altruistic at times makes for a better place to live, and we all have to live somewhere.

 

[correcaminos]

Simply put, I have no need to fear getting covid due to my age and level of health. Therefore, it's my choice to not put something into my body that I don't want to. Everyone should have that choice. The same way people have the choice to drive fast, drink alcohol, etc. (Yes I know the response "and they have the choice to deny you entry, etc. etc.")

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not. Anti-vaxxers take things to the extreme, but pro-vaxxers do to.

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine? Life has risks and it's not my responsibility to keep other people safe. And nobody can say that is selfish if you've ever gone over the speed limit, drank maybe a little too much then drove home, etc. etc.

Do the 70,000 people who die every year from the flu not matter? If they do, then masks and distancing should come back every flu season, right? The people who are all for vaccines and masks for another few months don't mention this from what I've seen.

Thank you for your honesty and taking my post as sincere as it was meant to be. I absolutely appreciate it.

Why do I think you should be vaccinated? To help others who cannot. I signed up to do trials last summer after my aunt who was in a long term care facility that was slammed with covid, developed pneumonia. As she never had kids nor married, I received a call late at night saying to pray as she might not make it. It sucked. She managed to live but did pass away last December. Due to lack of masking and high case counts we had her buried with only one family member at her side. We hope to have the funeral later this year.

I joined so no one would have to go through a call like that.

I want all to be vaccinated who can to prevent deaths in those who cannot be vaccinated. I honestly want all who can to be vaccinated so we can get our lives back.

Vaccinating is never just s selfish act (as in for you and only you) and it really never has been. We vaccinate to protect all. And flu does matter but yet again vaccine hesitancy and people not caring about others causes many of those deaths. I doubt I can reason totally but hope you keep that in mind. I hope this pandemic shows us that we can come together to save lives.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The people who are so concerned about keeping everyone safe never respond to posts about other ways to keep people safe that have nothing to do with covid (speed limit reduction, etc.). My only conclusion is that they only really care about public safety when it comes to covid, and in no other real way. To me that's pretty odd.

This is a thread about SARS-CoV-2, not the general topic of public health. You condemning people for not making off topic comments.

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not.

Then provide them already. Otherwise it’s just more misinformation you are spreading.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine?

Simply put: to end this pandemic ASAP. You should get vaccinated now so that I can go to WDW in August without a mask or distancing or having to show proof of vaccination I kid, but it’s based in truth. If enough people get vaccinated the cases will drop enough that all restrictions are lifted and we all get to go back to normal life. That‘s plan A. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated then plan B is keeping Covid restrictions longer and all this talk about vaccine passports. It’s been over a year now so hoping that Covid restrictions will just go away even if cases don’t drop enough is nothing more than wishful thinking. It won’t happen.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Thank you for your honesty and taking my post as sincere as it was meant to be. I absolutely appreciate it.

Why do I think you should be vaccinated? To help others who cannot. I signed up to do trials last summer after my aunt who was in a long term care facility that was slammed with covid, developed pneumonia. As she never had kids nor married, I received a call late at night saying to pray as she might not make it. It sucked. She managed to live but did pass away last December. Due to lack of masking and high case counts we had her buried with only one family member at her side. We hope to have the funeral later this year.

I joined so no one would have to go through a call like that.

I want all to be vaccinated who can to prevent deaths in those who cannot be vaccinated. I honestly want all who can to be vaccinated so we can get our lives back.

Vaccinating is never just s selfish act (as in for you and only you) and it really never has been. We vaccinate to protect all. And flu does matter but yet again vaccine hesitancy and people not caring about others causes many of those deaths. I doubt I can reason totally but hope you keep that in mind. I hope this pandemic shows us that we can come together to save lives.

I am sorry to hear that, and appreciate the information you provide. To me, someone who constantly drives 10mph or more over the speed limit is no different than someone who chooses to not vaccinate.

As a counter point, a young man (teens) just killed himself in my brothers neighborhood not long ago. The reason was that the lockdowns had essentially destroyed his social life and in turn his "sense of self". I didn't know this person so the quotes are from someone close to the family.

Their are victims from this all over the spectrum. Covid has killed many, but so have our methods of stopping it.

I say this with no malice whatsoever, but again, it is not my job to protect other peoples health. I can choose how I want to do that. I don't drink and drive, ever. I donate to many charities that try to keep people (mostly teens) off the streets. We are in the process of trying to foster. And I rarely drive over the speed limit because I've seen too many accidents. That is how I "choose" to help.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

This is a thread about SARS-CoV-2, not the general topic of public health. You condemning people for not making off topic comments.


Then provide them already. Otherwise it’s just more misinformation you are spreading.

Asking other people to provide information counter to what you believe just shows me you don't bother confirming things you believe. I don't have the time to educate people.

Just a little about myself. I try to be a centerist. I don't even know if that's a term. It just means that if I believe something it's because I've researched the heck out of it but am always open to differing opinions. That is how I keep learning and developing as a person.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Simply put, I have no need to fear getting covid due to my age and level of health. Therefore, it's my choice to not put something into my body that I don't want to. Everyone should have that choice. The same way people have the choice to drive fast, drink alcohol, etc. (Yes I know the response "and they have the choice to deny you entry, etc. etc.")

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not. Anti-vaxxers take things to the extreme, but pro-vaxxers do to.

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine? Life has risks and it's not my responsibility to keep other people safe. And nobody can say that is selfish if you've ever gone over the speed limit, drank maybe a little too much then drove home, and so on.

Do the 70,000 people who die every year from the flu not matter? If they do, then masks and distancing should come back every flu season, right? The people who are all for vaccines and masks for another few months don't mention this from what I've seen.

70,000 deaths would be a really bad year for the flu. In fact, the highest estimate over the past decade is 61,000 and most years don't touch that. And even if 70,000/year was the average it is still nowhere close to 540,000 and counting, so your argument just proves that this virus is much more dangerous than the flu no matter how you spin it.

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[lazyboy97o]

Asking other people to provide information counter to what you believe just shows me you don't bother confirming things you believe. I don't have the time to educate people.

Just a little about myself. I try to be a centerist. I don't even know if that's a term. It just means that if I believe something it's because I've researched the heck out of it but am always open to differing opinions. That is how I keep learning and developing as a person.

If you make an extraordinary claim then the burden of proof is on you. You have not researched it which is apparent by you now repeatedly bringing up tired old falsehoods long since disproven and why you are hiding in the absence of evidence. “It could happen.” And now you’re playing the “I’m being open minded” card that is also a tired cliche of those who spread misinformation.

 

[mmascari]

Simply put: to end this pandemic ASAP. You should get vaccinated now so that I can go to WDW in August without a mask or distancing or having to show proof of vaccination I kid, but it’s based in truth. If enough people get vaccinated the cases will drop enough that all restrictions are lifted and we all get to go back to normal life.

Early August or late August? It might matter. We moved our trip from late June to early August, hoping that's enough. But, I haven't gotten the air tickets yet. Still concerned it'll become next June. It's the reduction in experience and hassle of eating that's our biggest concern. For the money, don't want a half experience. The masks don't matter so much.

Completely unrelated, but looking forward to my turn at this:

Immune Response

xkcd.com

 

[_caleb]

Asking other people to provide information counter to what you believe just shows me you don't bother confirming things you believe. I don't have the time to educate people.

Just a little about myself. I try to be a centerist. I don't even know if that's a term. It just means that if I believe something it's because I've researched the heck out of it but am always open to differing opinions. That is how I keep learning and developing as a person.

I'd be interested to know your research methodology

 

[Dan Deesnee]

If you make an extraordinary claim then the burden of proof is on you. You have not researched it which is apparent by you now repeatedly bringing up tired old falsehoods long since disproven and why you are hiding in the absence of evidence. “It could happen.” And now you’re playing the “I’m being open minded” card that is also a tired cliche of those who spread misinformation.

So many assumptions. You've made up your mind, likely with little to no actual research.

Good day.

 

[correcaminos]

I am sorry to hear that, and appreciate the information you provide. To me, someone who constantly drives 10mph or more over the speed limit is no different than someone who chooses to not vaccinate.

As a counter point, a young man (teens) just killed himself in my brothers neighborhood not long ago. The reason was that the lockdowns had essentially destroyed his social life and in turn his "sense of self". I didn't know this person so the quotes are from someone close to the family.

Their are victims from this all over the spectrum. Covid has killed many, but so have our methods of stopping it.

I say this with no malice whatsoever, but again, it is not my job to protect other peoples health. I can choose how I want to do that. I don't drink and drive, ever. I donate to many charities that try to keep people (mostly teens) off the streets. We are in the process of trying to foster. And I rarely drive over the speed limit because I've seen too many accidents. That is how I "choose" to help.

To me I don't see the driving as quite the same though I sort of see your point. One person in a car can kill or harm x many they are in an accident with. Covid being sick is more of a chain reaction. Like two friends who died of covid, it was not just one person getting sick harming a few. One got sick and then it spread. Each new person getting sick risks another. I hope that makes sense.

No, it isn't your job to protect people's lives, but it can be a nice thing to do. To bring cases down to nothing of concern will help with the depressed like the teen you knew by way of your family. I'm huge into doing things for others. Like no smoking and such. But we all have to do what we want to do. No one will force you, but I hope you at least reconsider it at some point.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I'd be interested to know your research methodology

It's not rocket science. I read white papers, scientific studies, opinion pieces by people who stand on both sides and those who hold no strong opinion, news articles. Then I formulate how I feel based on that info. This is grade school level stuff so it's shocking you had to ask.

I guess I have an advantage in that the company I work for is a news and research creator / aggregator (one of the worlds largest).

 

[GoofGoof]

Early August or late August? It might matter. We moved our trip from late June to early August, hoping that's enough. But, I haven't gotten the air tickets yet. Still concerned it'll become next June. It's the reduction in experience and hassle of eating that's our biggest concern. For the money, don't want a half experience. The masks don't matter so much.

Completely unrelated, but looking forward to my turn at this:

Immune Response

xkcd.com

Checking in 8/19. Southwest releases the flight schedule on April 1. I am under no delusions that we will have no Covid restrictions by then and if things have taken a turn for the worst I can always cancel. I do hope things are much better by then. I’d prefer not to wear a mask outside in FL in August, but it’s not like the weather is pleasant then anyway without masks. That’s not a deal breaker for me anymore. My kids won’t likely both be vaccinated by then, but I’m hoping cases are way down and it won’t matter.