EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

yeah....the Louvre Pyramid was wrong on many levels...

Yup.. yikes.. my apologies on that. I honestly should’ve looked up the Louvre and its history of changes up and double checked on that particular “fact” of it being one of its inspirations. I try to get that sort of thing right everytime and not wrong, I can’t remember where I read that initially, but I ‘do’ remember Tom K. Morris’s reasoning of it being made to look like the film crystals cspencer96 mentioned being the one I knew best and made perfect sense. Keep in mind, he was one of the core imagineers who worked on that original pavilion with Tony, Steve, and the rest of the original team behind it. As I stated, duly noted of that mistake. Oiii

 

[Figments Friend]

Tom Morris is a wonderful man.

If you ever get the chance to spend some time with him, DO IT.

He is currently on a historic crusade, unearthing amazing things buried deep in the past.
One can only respect tremendously what he has done thus far, and what he is currently doing.

Love ya, Tom.



-

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Tom Morris is a wonderful man.

If you ever get the chance to spend some time with him, DO IT.

He is currently on a historic crusade, unearthing amazing things buried deep in the past.
One can only respect tremendously what he has done thus far, and what he is currently doing.

Love ya, Tom.



-

Right there with ya. Super cool & very nice guy who truly knows his stuff. Brilliant contributions to Parks history projects lately. Excited to read his upcoming books and such relating to all his research.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Oh, ya know.. there’s something else that I ought to bring up also that I noticed about the last 2 redos/current ride that isn’t discussed as much. Ride capacity. The original version had a large amount of vehicles and was constantly moving (similar to the Haunted Mansion). When they did the Honey, I Shrunk IP rethemes, they apparently (judging by MartinSmith’s Ultimate Tribute videos & photos), threw a number of the original vehicles away and lessened the amount of capacity for some bizarre reason. Not just by the amount of vehicles, but load time & riding through aswell after redoing the ride scenes the way they did. Because the ride now constantly starts & stops and then transitions into most of the show scenes rather than constantly slowly moving through each scene, it lessens the amount of capacity it had before.

Why they’d seemingly intentionally lower the capacity of guests for (in their minds atleast) an “upgrade” for what was once the 2nd most popular ride in the park in its original incarnation, I have no clue. Does it maybe have to do with the slightly disabled track (underneath the hollow flooring that make up the current queue space & downstairs “ImageWorks”: What-If Labs, no less), not allowing as many ride vehicles on the track at once, or is there something else we don’t know about that decision?

Hmm, wish we knew the answer to that. (Aswell as, again, the answers as to why they did everything they did with the redos). Cause they’re pretty wild decisions that make no sense (ironically) otherwise, yeah? Lol

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Oh yeah.. and for how much they seemingly love celebrating & utilizing elements of the 02-current iteration of the ride that the majority doesn’t like. (Keep the stuff we know folks ‘love’ from folks involved with it that are celebrated & acknowledged for a record of excellence constantly otherwise, strictly in the ‘background’, and keep the stuff we know folks ‘hate’ that wasn’t in the ‘foreground’, that makes a whole lot of sense, right?) for the bigger Figment related media & merch. (Heck, they even brought back “Figzilla” from ‘04, who Tony and us fans were also vocally against for the new meet n greet as opposed to the classic Dreamfinder with Figment as they should’ve been (lol, but this time Figzilla looks closer to Blaine Gibson’s original animatronic sculpt and Dreamfinder is flying in his machine on the background (ala the original opening scene) in Figment’s meet area on the right as a silhouette, so all’s okay then, right? but we’ll also utilize elements from the 04 Figment’s Place meet area on the left.. and the Imagination Institute logo on the back of his signature card, despite knowing, full well how much that version is hated, that’ll make em shut up and not notice what’s going on, right? Use juuust, enough/ the bare minimum of the original attraction and characters folks actually like. You just can’t make this up) and for the 2019 EPCOT Forever show, they included Dr. Channing’s message “And so as you can plainly see, Imagination works the best when it’s set free” from the hated current ride in that too, right? As opposed to Dreamfinder’s “Imagination is something that belongs to all of us” from the beloved original. I, again, forgave it at the time.. as I assumed, okay, it’s ’just’ a little mix-up from the current ride, atleast they’re utilizing Figment more prominently, it’s ’just’ a little detail from the current ride, but the fact it ‘still’ is happening, for something ‘that’ big (a full short form video that ‘should’ capture & reflect the core essence of him and the beloved ride yet it Infact doesn’t properly) and they haven’t relented on it, despite the ‘HUGE’ amount of clear evidence proving the changes are a problem is ridiculous.

There genuinely is no excuse for it, other than what I assume to be ludicrously & intentionally obtuse & ignorant upper management & studio/department heads or some crazy mandate or atmosphere preventing folks from doing things right that makes no sense. (Upper management deserves to get called out/exposed for that one if they don’t quit that upon knowing the truth)

It sure is funny how they seemingly refuse to interview & show clearly the folks who actually were behind & responsible for the last redo of the ride and all the reasonings behind the creation of that, if they’re so comfortable reusing elements from that at the forefront in most projects these days, isn’t it? Guess they’ll continue to pretend Tony Baxter and the rest of the original creative heads were behind that too, right?

They instead utilize Tony (as they should, frankly they should in a much larger capacity for Journey Into Imagination related things) for basically puff pieces involving the character and PR related stuff and not the core stuff (like the unveiling of the statue for WDW’s 50th) while still treating this attraction & ‘2’ characters wrong and in new media (with the exception of the Little Golden Book) while pretending little to nothing ever happened to it so they can continue getting away with defending the 02-current blatant sham (how ironic, considering what the new How Not To Draw video shows imagination is, “Pretending something is what it isn’t” as opposed to combining sparks of inspiration to create new things. You don’t say? Lol!)

I mean, they once back in the early 2000s, when news first broke about said redo, they seemingly said to news outlets (which I’ve linked btw in my past posts) that Tony Baxter was set to return for the redo (when he infact didn’t) and how that basically reflected in how “WDI was righting a wrong” as not only had Baxter been directly involved with the beloved original but he was a good spokesperson for and helping WDI win high achievements & awards around that time. Yeeeah, and we all know what actually happened/how that turned out. Hahahaha

I mean look, here’s hoping those 2 recent t-shirts are a sign for things to come, but if not, all I have to say is.. “UGH, I knew it, damn it, I knew it, I noticed things were off and had suspicions lingering in the back of my mind they were gonna screw this up yet again. I did ‘everything’ I could to try to just brush it off/have faith, but SOB, my suspicions were proven right, AGAIN. You ‘cannot’ do this with a property that is in ‘this’ vulnerable of a state. It almost always leads to the same lousy results. More & more wrong stuff rather than right only adds up and makes things worse & more confusing for the creative teams working on this stuff. The management & folks behind this that know full well what’s going on here and refuse to do anything about it should be ashamed of themselves, straight up. I pray to God they’re ripped a massive one for this. Absolutley evil & despicable. How dare they undermine these characters & attraction w more of the same BS that ruined it to begin with after everything that’s happened, ‘AGAIN’ for a 3rd freakin’ time despite all the clear, indisputable evidence against the crap they so desperately try to pass off as (let alone being just as popular) as the beloved original when it blatantly isn’t. What a joke”

I honest to God, genuinely really, really hope I’m proven wrong this time. Honestly. And they get future Journey Into Imagination stuff right. Just ask Tony Baxter how he feels about things and the other media that’s come out with the characters since, get his (and other core key creative members of the original ride’s team)‘s input while they’re available to do so. They’ll guide you on the right path/give you the right advice on this. And there’s archival material, ride through footage & photos, and again, that new Golden Book that got it right. Just view them, pay close attention, & listen to the stories of how it got developed and why they made the creative decisions & choices they made with it and take that all into importance & consideration. Pretty sure that’s what the folks behind the Little Golden Book did. It’s literally ‘that’ simple. And if it’s not that simple to whoever is chosen to work on it, then get someone else to do it where it is for them. Seriously

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

And I know some are gonna say. But attraction integrity/placemaking. They can’t cause the current ride is the one operating. Nah, not when it’s the current ride that’s the wrong one. The ride should be the thing spotlighted that it sticks out like the horrible sore thumb it truly is. People ‘should’ be noticing more & more and talking more about how the current ride makes no sense at all compared to the right stuff and is so badly executed compared to the original. The company ‘should’ be embarrassed by that. Especially those with bad intentions who have genuinely wanted this to turn out as badly as it has. They’re despicable and deserve no mercy, ‘particularly’ if they’ve gotten the warning all these times and actually have the power to do something about it that’d only give them better PR and in such clear ways they can easily understand. Like, cmon..

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

*sigh* and just like that, while we’re here celebrating the fact they put out some perfect t-shirts based on the classic ride we all love and want back. We get mixed-up nonsense on the new dress shirt. Seriously. Does anyone really want Skunk Figment as opposed to iconography or more of the classic ride scenes with Dreamfinder & Figment? Ya know, the scenes that actually fit with using our creative abilities rather than getting our senses checked? (As Tony Baxter once said, “if you can explain to me what an upside down toilet on the ceiling and learning how a skunk smells improves your imagination. It would help me a lot cause I for one can’t figure it out”)
Even the ride vehicles aren’t right, and they’ve sneakily put the original pavilion spiral logo onto the current day red vehicles when they infact (sadly) have the institute logos used on them instead… :
View attachment 913053

Still trying to pull a fast one on us, eh Disney? You think we won’t notice but I know I certainly do. I’m more than willing to call out usage of the 02-current day Honey I Shrunk rethemed sham when I see it. There is ‘zero’ excuse to use that for new Figment material when you have 20 or so years of complaints & data proving that the redo isn’t as (infact, not at all) popular compared to the original ride, evidence of closing the popular original under totally shady circumstances, the sales numbers of the marvel backstory comics & new original ride inspired 2024 golden book etc. Missed opportunity to use the original load area mural art by Toshi Muto much? Now ‘that’ would’ve made an awesome dress shirt:
View attachment 913054
View attachment 913061
View attachment 913057View attachment 913059
View attachment 913060

Yes it’s certainly a call out offense when Disney has merch for a ride they are currently running? Instead of merch for a ride that closed 30 years ago! Oh the horrors

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Yes it’s certainly a call out offense when Disney has merch for a ride they are currently running? Instead of merch for a ride that closed 30 years ago! Oh the horrors

*27 years. And funny, how even to this day, most still clamor for fixing this ride/bringing it back. It’s the core reason why people love the character & pavilion to begin with.
Heck, the stuff selling the highest numbers has consistently been, for like the past 20 years of them specifically selling stuff themed & tied to the original, including Dreamfinder in it, etc.. how much more proof and tests do they freakin’ need?! It literally goes back 20+ years now!

And you’re arguing they do merch instead for a ride folks ‘haven’t liked’, that the company pretends is the same or little to no different to the popular original when it infact isn’t at all, compared to the actual popular original folks ‘love’ & constantly clamor to return. Explain to me how that logic makes sense. Please.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

And at this point, it’s more than merch. And that’s completely unreasonable, period. There is zero logical explanation you could give for doing what they’re doing lately. Other than willful ignorance, honestly.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

To this day, people still ask for Disneyland’s PeopleMover to return. The track is still there, that attraction hasn’t been operating for around the same time. No excuse for that either other than willfull neglect and not taking capacity into consideration. Look at how much worse the land bottlenecks now due to the lack of taking proper capacity into consideration. Seriously. But no, make merch and brand new content off the abandoned track still there instead, cause that’s what’s there currently, right?. Let’s also mostly utilize the Rocket Rods name & design that damaged the track to begin with & despite it not being as popular. PeopleMover’s been closed for like 30 years after all, right?

That’s basically the argument you’re making about using more content from the original Journey Into Imagination vs the current “Journey Into Imagination With Figment”.

 

[Haymarket2008]

There’s a…..lot going on on this page…

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

There’s a…..lot going on on this page…

Maybe.. just maybe, it’s because there’s something serious going on here that a lot of people are willing to brush off when it Infact is more serious than you realize regarding the future of this character & pavilion. Hence why I’m pointing out what I am. Straight up willful ignorance from the company that needs to get corrected, ASAP. Do you want Dreamfinder & Figment and the Journey Into Imagination pavilion back the way you remember tastefully enhanced, and not a repeat of the junk Honey I Shrunk themed replacement formula w a mixed-up Figment & concept of imagination w no Dreamfinder, for the past 20+ years?
Then pay close attention & please make your voices heard, cause, judging by their patterns with this character as of late, they’re trying to get away with this again, just now combining core elements of the current with the original minimally in such a way to gaslight & deceive us into accepting more junk when it shouldn’t be. They need to just straight up scrap/be rid of the current junk replacement stuff, period. It wasn’t a “return of the original spirit” then and it sure as heck isn’t now, despite how badly they may want to pretend that 02 “fix” is. There’s more than enough evidence internally to prove it’s wrong for them to keep using it. There is ‘zero’ logical & reasonable excuse to keep doing this. Honestly. And don’t even try to frame this whole thing as just being about merchandise. I literally stated and have discussed examples, it is ‘not’ just merch. This issue has infected most of the rest of Figment’s recent media/appearances also when it damn well shouldn’t have/be.

The only excuse I can think of is to avoid the wrath of ludicrously obtuse upper management who doesn’t want to accept the painfully obvious truth in front of them for who knows what reason. Screw said management, they need to be demoted, or worse, fired &/or exposed, depending on how much they’re still willfully/knowingly contributing to this clear problem.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Maybe.. just maybe, it’s because there’s something serious going on here that a lot of people are willing to brush off when it Infact is more serious than you realize regarding the future of this character & pavilion. Hence why I’m pointing out what I am. Straight up willful ignorance from the company that needs to get corrected, ASAP. Do you want Dreamfinder & Figment and the Journey Into Imagination pavilion back the way you remember tastefully enhanced, and not a repeat of the junk Honey I Shrunk themed replacement formula w a mixed-up Figment & concept of imagination w no Dreamfinder, for the past 20+ years?
Then pay close attention & please make your voices heard, cause, judging by their patterns with this character as of late, they’re trying to get away with this again, just now combining core elements of the current with the original minimally in such a way to gaslight & deceive us into accepting more junk when it shouldn’t be. They need to just straight up scrap/be rid of the current junk replacement stuff, period. It wasn’t a “return of the original spirit” then and it sure as heck isn’t now, despite how badly they may want to pretend that 02 “fix” is. There’s more than enough evidence internally to prove it’s wrong for them to keep using it. There is ‘zero’ logical & reasonable excuse to keep doing this. Honestly. And don’t even try to frame this whole thing as just being about merchandise. I literally stated and have discussed examples, it is ‘not’ just merch. This issue has infected most of the rest of Figment’s recent media/appearances also when it damn well shouldn’t have/be.

The only excuse I can think of is to avoid the wrath of ludicrously obtuse upper management who doesn’t want to accept the painfully obvious truth in front of them for who knows what reason. Screw said management, they need to be demoted, or worse, fired &/or exposed, depending on how much they’re still willfully/knowingly contributing to this clear problem.

Look man I agree with you that the current ride sucks and we need a fix. But I personally think you should channel this energy into something more useful. You talk about this ride like it’s an ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

 

[MagicEye99]

I’m sorry, I know this is a forum and people are free to post as they wish (within reason), but I can’t even read this thread anymore. It’s taking an odd turn that I feel is turning people off from contributing/having more casual conversation… no offense meant by this, just an observation.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I think sometimes people use these boards as a form of therapy, and they just dump all of their thoughts and emotions down on these boards. Like we are reading their diary or something. Maybe it is time for some posters to take a little breather or a walk away from their computer. It’s all going to be okay….

 

[HMF]

I think sometimes people use these boards as a form of therapy, and they just dump all of their thoughts and emotions down on these boards. Like we are reading their diary or something. Maybe it is time for some posters to take a little breather or a walk away from their computer. It’s all going to be okay….

Ironically, this is one of the very few threads where I actually seem like an optimist.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I’m sorry, I know this is a forum and people are free to post as they wish (within reason), but I can’t even read this thread anymore. It’s taking an odd turn that I feel is turning people off from contributing/having more casual conversation… no offense meant by this, just an observation.

Figment, for whatever reason, has always drawn a particularly intense and obsessive following. I personally find it pretty bewildering that a character from an objectively bad theme park attraction that hasn’t received any notable attention in over 20 years still has such a devoted fanbase.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Figment, for whatever reason, has always drawn a particularly intense and obsessive following. I personally find it pretty bewildering that a character from an objectively bad theme park attraction that hasn’t received any notable attention in over 20 years still has such a devoted fanbase.

That's why I always compare the Figment situation to Banjo-Kazooie or Geno when trying to explain it to people.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

*27 years. And funny, how even to this day, most still clamor for fixing this ride/bringing it back. It’s the core reason why people love the character & pavilion to begin with.
Heck, the stuff selling the highest numbers has consistently been, for like the past 20 years of them specifically selling stuff themed & tied to the original, including Dreamfinder in it, etc.. how much more proof and tests do they freakin’ need?! It literally goes back 20+ years now!

And you’re arguing they do merch instead for a ride folks ‘haven’t liked’, that the company pretends is the same or little to no different to the popular original when it infact isn’t at all, compared to the actual popular original folks ‘love’ & constantly clamor to return. Explain to me how that logic makes sense. Please.

Clearly people like the ride enough as even this version still moves merchandise and can get a line at times. Also the logic is that one ride exists and the other ride does not. Disney is going to be selling Frozen merch more likely than chocking the giftshop at the end of Frozen Ever After with Maelstrom merch. Maybe they should start selling Great Movie Ride merchandise outside of MMRR? Or Brer Rabbit outside of TBA!

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Clearly people like the ride enough as even this version still moves merchandise and can get a line at times. Also the logic is that one ride exists and the other ride does not. Disney is going to be selling Frozen merch more likely than chocking the giftshop at the end of Frozen Ever After with Maelstrom merch. Maybe they should start selling Great Movie Ride merchandise outside of MMRR? Or Brer Rabbit outside of TBA!

You’re missing the painfully obvious thing, Figment is in both versions of the ride, merch with the Figment character on it sells and automatically upon seeing him brings memories of the ‘original’ ride he originated from back. And when it’s one of the ‘only’ options for things they’re selling and they’re not given any other option… what do you think will happen? That’s the way they get away with this. Utilize him and it’ll sell. The ‘one’ thing that’s still there from the original ride. The purple dragon that ‘looks’ the same in his appearances. But everything else about the attraction & usage outside of the glass pyramid exterior, the attraction’s title, & vehicle shape, is off/wrong and even folks that find the current ride “okay” at it’s highest “praise” would say the only thing they enjoy about it is Figment and that he deserves a much better ride knowing his potential, that they’d prefer the original non-mixed up theming w Dreamfinder return w tech & spfx updates upon learning about/seeing it.

Btw, Maelstrom & Great Movie Ride have never, ever had the same amount of pushback that closing the original Journey Into Imagination had over its Honey, I Shrunk themed but deceptively named “Journey Into >Your Imagination” redo.
Splash Mountain is a “unique” case as the redo mainly involves the film IP it’s based on, Song of the South, unfortunately being caught in racial relation controversy (which I won’t get deep into here). Not at all the same scenario.

Btw, is Maelstrom’s Frozen IP redo deceptively called “Maelstrom <ever after”? Is Splash Mountain’s Princess & the Frog redo called Splash Mountain <into the Bayou, or Great Movie Ride’s Mickey redo The Great^ER Movie Ride (with mickey)? Has Tiana’s Bayou Adventure shoehorned Br’er Rabbit & Zip-a-Dee-Do-Dah back into the PATF theme after the complaints and titled it “Splash Mountain with Br’er Rabbit” (despite it not being so.) No, so those points are moot.

And I bet you Honey, I Shrunk (the Audience) merch wouldn’t sell as highly as the Original Journey Into Imagination on its own either. Now granted, if it does, so be it. But I have a hunch, sell both themes separately (done correctly. Journey Into Imagination features Dreamfinder & Figment, lines/song lyrics, & show scenes, Honey I Shrunk stuff has Dr. Channing, Dr. Salinkski, the Shrinking machine, etc. .. and suddenly, you realize. Nothing from the “popular IP redo” (that isn’t popular) will sell as well.
You (and apparently the company also) pretend the current ride is really or just as popular as the original when it honest to god isn’t, from the moment it opened in ‘02. Even Figment’s creator hates this thing and has vocally called it the blatant sham/horribly redone ride that it truly is over the years. Ask people who were around for when it opened and the past 20+ years of its existence to back this up. Figment in appearance & the original One Little Spark melody & lyrics still are (the only things left from the original), but not the current ride as a whole.