EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Ya know what, somebody should go ask Tony Baxter for themselves at the Festival of the Arts (this month, 22nd-25th) if he and his team ever had that plan in mind or were ever even called in to work on the 02-current “Journey Into Imagination With Figment”. Show him the old article or forum post and see what he says. I ‘highly’ doubt it’s true, but hey, we could be surprised. But honestly.. I doubt it still.

I did that very thing with John Musker & Ron Clements attending an Expo upon learning that apparently Eisner (and/or possibly others) tried to pitch a Figment movie to the film divisions and got no passionate response (according to a ‘96 shareholders meeting). They told me that wasn’t true/don’t remember that happening ever. (If you doubt it, go ask them the same question for yourself.) So that covers the animation side of things, still wonder about live action, but yeah.. lol Crazy, the stuff they were trying to spin ‘officially’ at the time to do what they did. Holy moly

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Was looking at old forum posts here from the time period (2001-02).. and man, check this out. They at some point falsely credited Tony Baxter as coming back to return Figment to the pavilion (despite him not being chosen to do so in actuality, sadly) and it has a slightly different storyline, yet still within the Honey I Shrunk Institute lol. (Anyone genuinely think Tony & his team would be on board with keeping that, based on every other account of him & his thoughts you’ve heard/read?) Oh yeah, and apparently at one point they wanted to retheme it to Monsters, Inc. and were selling merch for it outside at a cart (again, how does that make sense?) and Figment would’ve been shoehorned into that in some bizarre way. Lol, just Wild, WILD stuff that again, makes ‘Zero’ sense at all. And all the comments even back then of people going “‘Why’ do they insist on keeping/connecting the Honey I Shrunk theming & Dr. Nigel Channing that nobody likes?” or just with random Film IP rethemes we don’t want or need. Cackling with laughter here. Exactly what we think to this day. :

I may just be adding fuel to this rumor, but here goes:

I just spent three days at Epcot. (don't ask) Outside Imagination, I noticed a cart selling Monsters, Inc. merchendise. Foreshadowing???

Also about the ride... It seems as if the second floor is still intact. Although the ride is closed, Image works is still opened. If you go through the hallway leading from the main entrance to Image Works, you can see the escalator that once took people upstairs. Look up to see a portion of the second level. When walking through Image works, towards the ride exit, look to your right. You can see the elevator and spiral staircase completely intact!!!

 

[Figments Friend]

Reading this makes me all the madder that there is such a lackluster attraction in the exact same spot now.

It is incredibly frustrating and anger inducing for me as well, having experienced the Original soon after it opened and several times afterwards.
The smell of fresh paint in the interior queuing area, mixed with the smell of the ‘rose perfume’ scent that was located in the Dream Port will forever be with me.

The anger and pain is real.

The greatest tragedy in Disney Theme Park history was closing and completely gutting the Original.
It should have remained even if only in partial.
Completely idiodic on so many levels to just trash the entire interior of the ride just to replace it with…..nothing……for the atrocious 2nd version.
The less said about that version, the better.

-

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

It is incredibly frustrating and anger inducing for me as well, having experienced the Original soon after it opened and several times afterwards.
The smell of fresh paint in the interior queuing area, mixed with the smell of the ‘rose perfume’ scent that was located in the Dream Port will forever be with me.

The anger and pain is real.

The greatest tragedy in Disney Theme Park history was closing and completely gutting the Original.
It should have remained even if only in partial.
Completely idiodic on so many levels to just trash the entire interior of the ride just to replace it with…..nothing……for the atrocious 2nd version.
The less said about that version, the better.

-

While I agree. I think we should get into the ‘how’/why’ that despicable/horrible change was done and crazy stuff they were thinking behind the scenes. The sooner that story gets told in its entirety, the sooner we can get the original version restored back to its former glory. Expose it all for everyone to see. Let those within the company continually stopping a proper restoration/return from happening or those straight up advocating for a repeat of these events get humiliated by this, especially if they know the truth. They deserve it.

 

[Figments Friend]

I’ve told the story before here….in past posts.
We have talked about it.

It was a combo of several things, some of them being -
Changes in relations with the sponsor Kodak.
Budget cutting hammer falling hard Company wide post-Disneyland Paris opening.
Political maneuvering at WDI.

-

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I’ve told the story before here….in past posts.
We have talked about it.

It was a combo of several things, some of them being -
Changes in relations with the sponsor Kodak.
Budget cutting hammer falling hard Company wide post-Disneyland Paris opening.
Political maneuvering at WDI.

-

Yup and I found live recorded evidence of what you described to prove the story to back it up for those that would like to see it for themselves. (The switched queue ropes, the new awning, the changed signage & monorail spiels). But I think also the creative decisions and what exactly the thought process behind everything was, deserves to be shared too. I wanna find out why they decided to have Channing tell us in the first scene of the first 99-01 redo “there’s not much going on upstairs imagination wise” and why Figment is portrayed as a nuisance that farts in your face and thinks upside down in the 02-current ride as opposed to his original sweet, childlike, and curious portrayal from 83-98. ‘Why’ they ultimately didn’t bring Dreamfinder back into the ‘02 “return” (instead a “Dean Finder” door, his voice snoring behind the Dream Lab door, and his shilouette on the One Little Spark song lyrics at the end) and spent that money on getting Eric Idle back as Dr. Channing instead, and why they told Dave Goelz ‘not’ to sound like Billy Barty, even though he was initially told he did the character and was going to do an impression of Barty. The sooner, the better

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

And why it’s about testing your 5 senses as opposed to creating new ideas & using your creativity and how those ideas & abilities work best in art, literature, theatre, science & technology, and film. LOL! Honestly, I wish we knew the answer to that question. Even if they knew it was “supposed to be temporary” (apparently), what a stupid thing to do. The finale scene (minus the Dr. Channing moon face) shows there was absolutely no excuse in dedicating the entire ride’s runtime to the nonsensical junk they did instead of what it should’ve been..

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Honestly, rehashing it over and over again in this thread isn't going to make them change it. IF any of them were looking at this, they probably have it on mute by now. I think I'm going to tap out from here until there's some good news.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Honestly, rehashing it over and over again in this thread isn't going to make them change it. IF any of them were looking at this, they probably have it on mute by now. I think I'm going to tap out from here until there's some good news.

True. This is the last I’m posting here tbh. Lol! Since I’ve got nothing else to add. If any of you find anything else from 02-beforehand or even anything involving production of any of the ride versions. Post em here. But, to those with news. Looking forward to reading it. whether it’s good or bad. It’ll be great to discuss lol
Until then, farewell… A dream can be a dream come true, with just that spark in me & you

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Oh, though one last thing.. production wise.. you remember that production slide I mentioned I had. Don’t have the slide itself digitized for now.. ‘but’ I have the photo used in the eBay listing I purchased for those that want to see. This is the puppet that was used for the early 90s ImageWorks rehab for the Dreamfinder’s School of Drama activity, specifically the new at the time Storybook Land segment. If you look on Facebook also, you’ll find photos of Chuck McCann performing Dreamfinder for this segment too (he was brought back to perform the character live here as opposed to Joe Rohde as it is in the other earlier produced segments, and most of the full segment can be found on YouTube if you look. This was a Jim Henson style puppet they did, as opposed to cable controlled in the canned Dreamfinders show and the Bob Baker puppets in film finale of the attraction & park used puppets the meet n greet Dreamfinder would carry. :

(Footage of this segment at 4:43)

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Something I ‘just’ found btw, from this period, shocked I somehow missed this.. from 1991, weirdly enough, it features Dreamfinder & Figment in the interview (portrayed by Steve Taylor, their longest running meet n greet performer from 86-98) with Marty Sklar here, while he mentions EuroDisneyland & WDW MK’s Splash Mountain… there’s weirdly no mention of the new enhancements/additions brought to the Journey Into Imagination Pavilion at the time though (that being; the addition of Figment’s Coloring Book, Mirage animation illusion, Dreamfinder’s Blimp Race, the Making Faces activity, and the new Dreamfinder’s School of Drama film segment (one I showed a production slide from) to The ImageWorks) which makes this a bit awkward in some ways.. they’re there with Marty Sklar for the interview, but why exactly they’re there if neither Marty nor Dreamfinder himself are discussing anything relating back to them, Disney or Imagineering’s creativity or what’s new to see in the pavilion? No idea..

The original with imagineer Barry Braverman (one of the folks who worked alongside Tony on the original Journey Into Imagination) and Dreamfinder & Figment (portrayed by Ron Schneider in that one, their first meet n greet performers from ‘82-86) interview done on the Today Show in ‘82 didn’t have this same oddity happen.. it gets further into their ride, Disney’s creativity and the ride & characters’ creation, interesting. Oh well, still fun to see nonetheless:

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

There’s another thing worth mentioning too.. so, in various art books and things. There’s concept art of Figment done during this same period (early 90s) by Marcelo Vignali, who was also one of the head artists on the Muppets Courtyard & Great Muppet Movie Ride aswell as Muppet*Vision 3D & Roger Rabbit’s Car Toon Spin at Disneyland. Was curious to know what it was for so I shot him a message a little while ago. He remembered doing some pieces for Dreamfinder & Figment on the Dreamcatching machine (the original opening scene), but the plans for this enhancement (whatever he did/the plan was) had gotten shelved for some reason (I’d guess budgetary reasons??), but yeah.. fascinating. Seems they planned to do more stuff with the ride too at the time but alas, it never happened.. )

 

[Stumpos]

I'd say things started to go downhill in 2012 or 2013. They abandoned hand-drawn animation again, the earlier success of Alice in Wonderland got the live action remakes started up, they became hyper-focused on recapturing Tangled's success by making most if not all of their animated films just like it - which is how we got Frozen, and when THAT was a huge hit they started pushing it down our throats while ignoring all of their other animated films. The IP mandate in the parks was in full throttle by now, and while we did get stuff like Toy Story Land and Pandora, they took forever to build. After 2018, things got worse and worse... and, well, here we are.

How is every single Disney movie from after 2010 like Tangled? Wreck in Ralph, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, Ralph Breaks the Internet, Raya, Encanto, Strange World, and Wish? How are they like Tangled? Hesitant on how even Frozen's like Tangled, especially considering it was in development way before Tangled got released, first in the 1940s, then the late 1990s/early 2000s before officially getting greenlit in 2008.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Ayye, Figment looks great & on-model for the new FOTA (Festival of the Arts) logo here!! The same look Infact as he had on the Odyssey building a little while ago (Figment’s Inspiration Station) where they had a classic themed display and the classic ImageWorks pin tables on display (Awesome!) ‘And’ the new popcorn bucket is cool, and lookee there, a light up paint brush!!! Just as I had hoped, and the new popcorn bucket, he has the classic artists’ outfit on, ‘and’ the original pavilion logo is included!! Huge thumbs up to Disney for this. They’re def listening to our feedback and taking it into consideration.
Hope, it’s grow..err.. glowing :

 

[Brer Panther]

How is every single Disney movie from after 2010 like Tangled? Wreck in Ralph, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, Ralph Breaks the Internet, Raya, Encanto, Strange World, and Wish? How are they like Tangled? Hesitant on how even Frozen's like Tangled, especially considering it was in development way before Tangled got released, first in the 1940s, then the late 1990s/early 2000s before officially getting greenlit in 2008.

Not ALL of their films after 2010 are like Tangled, but it's pretty obvious that film's success influenced the way Frozen, Zootopia, and Moana came out.

Think about it: you have the quirky, awkward, naive, wide-eyed female protagonist. They've been stuck in one place all their life, and now have the chance to get out and live their dream? They make a deal with this snarky, morally-ambiguous male character and the two of them butt heads for most of the movie but by the end of it are either lovers or BFFs. Anna and Kristoff are basically just Rapunzel and Flynn 2.0, then Judy and Nick were Rapunzel and Flynn 3.0. Even Moana, Mirabel, and Asha are very blatantly designed in the Rapunzel mold (though the latter two don't team up with a snarky, moral-ambiguous male).

And it's just a coincidence that both Tangled and Frozen have a hoofed animal that acts like a dog?

 

[Stumpos]

Think about it: you have the quirky, awkward, naive, wide-eyed female protagonist. They've been stuck in one place all their life, and now have the chance to get out and live their dream? They make a deal with this snarky, morally-ambiguous male character and the two of them butt heads for most of the movie but by the end of it are either lovers or BFFs. Anna and Kristoff are basically just Rapunzel and Flynn 2.0, then Judy and Nick were Rapunzel and Flynn 3.0. Even Moana, Mirabel, and Asha are very blatantly designed in the Rapunzel mold (though the latter two don't team up with a snarky, moral-ambiguous male).

To be fair, Tangled wasn't the first WDAS film to have the quirky, awkward, and naive female protagonist. Ariel technically would be part of that mold too from The Little Mermaid (which coincidentally had the same directors as Moana). Beauty and the Beast also had the morally-ambigious male character butting heads with the main female before becoming lovers with the Beast. Aladdin even does both with the naive sheltered female Jasmine and the morally-ambiguous male Aladdin, with Raja being a hooved animal acting like a bit of a dog. This isn't something that's exclusive to their newer films.

At the very least, it wasn't exactly intentional on the director's end according to interviews.

Frozen co-director Jennifer Lee did explain how she approached writing Anna here and no where did she say Tangled influenced her: https://web.archive.org/web/2014031...er-lee-reinvented-the-story-of-the-snow-queen

She says at one point: "It’s funny, I think there are a lot of things where you have to let it go a little at times, kind of let it run its course. But I always think what it means is you have to learn to say it better. I think the best example of that was Anna. I wanted a girl whose only journey was sort of coming-of-age, where she goes from having a naive view of life and love--because she’s lonely--to the most sophisticated and mature view of love, where she’s capable of the ultimate love, which is sacrifice. And that was all I wanted for her. But people really went into more of the dysfunctionality--make her more co-dependent, they wanted to make her a little bit more like Vanellope in Wreck-It Ralph. And I didn’t have a reason why not to do that, I just couldn’t articulate it yet."

So seems the Disney higher ups actually were trying to push Anna to be like Vanellope rather than Rapunzel.

Zootopia isn't really a fairy tale plot the same way as those other three movies, being more in a modern setting. Co-director Byron Howard said he was more inspired by Robin Hood and the movie came from "desire to create something different from other animal anthropomorphic films, where animals either live in the natural world or in the human world".

This article also does show where the inspiration for Moana really came from: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...isney-controversy-pacific-islanders-polynesia

Encanto co-writer Charise Castro Smith has said that the intention for Mirabel was to "distinct, imperfect, and completely human character" as mentioned here: https://apnews.com/article/entertai...-york-movies-b34a37efb110300393cc2282e2b6821a

If the 2010s onward WDAS movies with female leads really are attempts to cash in on Tangled, by that logic do you think stuff like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas, and Mulan from the 1990s were trying to cash in on the success of The Little Mermaid? The fact they left The Rescuers Down Under (which was the only 1990s Disney animated movie that wasn't a musical or having a romance involving teens/young adults) out in the dust doesn't help either.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Something I ‘just’ found btw, from this period, shocked I somehow missed this.. from 1991, weirdly enough, it features Dreamfinder & Figment in the interview (portrayed by Steve Taylor, their longest running meet n greet performer from 86-98) with Marty Sklar here, while he mentions EuroDisneyland & WDW MK’s Splash Mountain… there’s weirdly no mention of the new enhancements/additions brought to the Journey Into Imagination Pavilion at the time though (that being; the addition of Figment’s Coloring Book, Mirage animation illusion, Dreamfinder’s Blimp Race, the Making Faces activity, and the new Dreamfinder’s School of Drama film segment (one I showed a production slide from) to The ImageWorks) which makes this a bit awkward in some ways.. they’re there with Marty Sklar for the interview, but why exactly they’re there if neither Marty nor Dreamfinder himself are discussing anything relating back to them, Disney or Imagineering’s creativity or what’s new to see in the pavilion? No idea..

The original with imagineer Barry Braverman and Dreamfinder & Figment (portrayed by Ron Schneider in that one, their first meet n greet performers from ‘82-86) interview done on the Today Show in ‘82 didn’t have this same oddity happen.. it gets further into their ride, Disney’s creativity and the ride & characters’ creation, interesting. Oh well, still fun to see nonetheless:

Ya know, I actually wanted to mention.. I wonder why there ‘wasn’t’ any push at all within the parks regarding marketing when the new additions came to The ImageWorks in ‘91? (Figment’s Coloring Book, Making Faces, The Mirage, Dreamfinder’s Blimp Race, and the new Storybook Land adventure added to Dreamfinder’s School of Drama) It wasn’t mentioned in signage, it wasn’t mentioned in guidebooks or guidemaps, nothing, at the time. Pretty strange, right?? They knew ImageWorks was very popular and a huge guest favorite within the pavilion. And again, you look at that interview done with Marty Sklar, Dreamfinder & Figment by his side.. who mentions they’re part of the Journey Into Imagination pavilion and briefly what they represent, Dreamfinder’s the guide that represents the wisdom & experience from the adult and Figment the curious child who wants to learn everything about the creative process he’s teaching both him & us guests, basically.. but that’s it, nothing more. I swear, watch it for yourself. Absolutley nothing new is mentioned despite the fact there was at that time and they’re ’right there, right next to him’. (And why else would they be there with him, cause they’re popular right? And you’d think they would’ve talked about new stuff going on with them at the time) So, SO strange..

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Btw, on the topic of Marty Sklar, Figment, and Tony Baxter. I just had an old memory come back to mind.. an interesting experience I had at a D23 Expo I attended one year in Anaheim. It was whatever year they had a panel for Marty Sklar’s new book coming at the time, “Travels with Figment: On the Road in Search of Disney Dreams”. (Keep note of that book’s title) I remember it being a very nice panel and a lovely tribute to Marty, and Tony happened to be there in the audience of course. After said panel, folks wanted to talk with Tony Baxter after, hear his thoughts, memories of Marty, etc. (he was there after all, right?) However, Tony was sadly very visibly uncomfortable/frightened by this and wanted to get out of there quickly, he had expressed to those that wanted to talk to him, he had to go talk outside/elsewhere, as he was afraid that the folks in charge of the panel (Not Marty, he had passed by this point) would be mad/upset with him for possibly “trying to take the audience’s attention away from the presenters & their panel/putting the focus on himself.” I swear.. but yeah, pretty nuts, right?? Considering he ‘created’ Figment & Dreamfinder and their original Journey Into Imagination pavilion…. Extremely baffling how ‘that’ is how they (apparently) see him, despite him ‘always’ doing his best to be kind, generous and give appreciation & rightful credit to everyone he’s worked with, or whatever he’s discussing and the folks that worked on it. Pretty wild to witness his heartbreaking reaction/way to evade the folks in charge’s embarrassingly odd/freaky narcissistic behavior…truthfully, that both shocked & broke my heart upon witnessing that firsthand.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Reading this makes me all the madder that there is such a lackluster attraction in the exact same spot now.

It makes me disgruntled!