EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

[HMF]

Speaking of which, wonder if maybe we could get another installment of the Imagineering story that goes into not just deep into the creations of ‘all’ the Classic 82-93 era EPCOT areas & attractions with footage & records only the company has access to atm, but also more interviews, the ‘real’ reasonings and timelines into why EPCOT was changed as a park in the late 90s-early 2000s. Maybe also going into the ‘real’ reasons why Journey Into Imagination was changed aswell and bts footage on the making of all the changes aswell, just so everyone can get a first hand look and comparison between what was created and how it was changed. Wouldn’t that be glorious? And then to get into the most recent changes they’ve done and the mindsets everyone had behind all that. Man oh man.. get the popcorn & candy ready for when you see it all laid out for everyone to see, and watch everyone’s reactions, especially with what they were thinking when changed it, ‘particularly’ in the mid-late 90s-early-mid 2000s. I feel it’s been long enough, right? Time for some justice for the imagineers and everyone that worked on classic EPCOT and those fighting for keeping its heart & integrity.

And while maybe we can’t expect the most recent stuff to be covered honestly yet (after all, that’s under Iger’s reign). We could atleast see Eisner’s for the time being.

I remember quite a few of them but few of the rationalizations for changes at EPCOT can compete with the recent "We wanted to create a pavilion about astrophysics and thought who would be the perfect host for it and they came up with Guardians of The Galaxy. Yeah, I am sure that's exactly what happened.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

the caliber of the stuff Disney puts out these days I now feel those people would actually have a point now.

until you realize that those very same mindsets held by management (who intentionally screwed things to become the lousy way they are to “prove” their clearly false points “correct”) are the ones behind & pushing the majority of lousy decisions being made now..

 

[Figments Friend]

So yeah…

How about that purple dragon and his Pavillion…?

The annual Epcot Festival of the Arts is coming up with a lot of Figment inspired food offerings and merchandise…and yet another popcorn bucket.
Wish the Disney Company would invest as much thought into fixing the Attraction this character is forced to suffer in as it does churning out this related product.


Tony Baxter will be at Epcot for the Arts Festival again this year.
Great time to meet up with him and talk shop!

See here -

 

[HMF]

until you realize that those very same mindsets held by management (who intentionally screwed things to become the lousy way they are to prove their lousy/false points) are the ones behind the lousy decisions being made now..

It doesn't surprise me, It is actually quite surprising how many Gen Z people who I talk to have very little attachment or even an antagonistic feeling for Disney. Then I think about when the prime of their childhood was and suddenly it makes perfect sense.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

It doesn't surprise me, It is actually quite surprising how many Gen Z people who I talk to have very little attachment or even an antagonistic feeling for Disney. Then I think about when the prime of their childhood was and suddenly it makes perfect sense.

Funny thing is I’m early Gen Z and am on your side cause I saw right through newer-current management’s deception when it happened thanks to both my own memory & attention to detail, genuine interest, deep amount of research in & proper exposure to Disney History & the Legacy otherwise. But yeah, here’s hoping there’s enough of us out there, across all generations than can see through the nonsense and help get Disney back to where they should be again.

 

[HMF]

Funny thing is I’m early Gen Z and am on your side cause I saw right through current management’s deception thanks to my memory & attention to detail, genuine interest in & proper exposure to the Disney Legacy otherwise. But yeah, here’s hoping there’s enough of us out there, across all generations than can see through the nonsense and help get Disney back to where they should be again.

Well, I don't know what the measuring stick is but when I refer to Gen Z I am mostly talking about people who have no memory of a pre 9/11 world. I am assuming "Early" means late 90s.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Well, I don't know what the measuring stick is but when I refer to Gen Z I am mostly talking about people who have no memory of a pre 9/11 world. I am assuming "Early" means late 90s.

Yep

 

[HMF]

Yep

Yeah, I am thinking people born in 2001 though about 2004 then again I am only basing this assumption off of one person I know so I could be talking out of my for all I know.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

So yeah…

How about that purple dragon and his Pavillion…?

The annual Epcot Festival of the Arts is coming up with a lot of Figment inspired food offerings and merchandise…and yet another popcorn bucket.
Wish the Disney Company would invest as much thought into fixing the Attraction this character is forced to suffer in as it does churning out this related product.


Tony Baxter will be at Epcot for the Arts Festival again this year.
Great time to meet up with him and talk shop!

See here -

View attachment 902586

Always happy to see him back, and yes! I encourage anyone who can attend, talk to him, please. More than worth your time. He knows his stuff and is beyond gracious and kind to those that are interested in the craft (theme park design), I too have personal experience speaking with him at various conventions, events etc. over the years and he’s always been the same, everytime. Worth every minute & cent spent.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Yeah, I am thinking people born in 2001 though about 2004 then again I am only basing this assumption off of one person I know so I could be talking out of my for all I know.

Yeah, it’s always subjective. I’ve talked to those younger than me via comments and other special media posts elsewhere that also feel the same way. Many of them coming from my same background it would seem. Simply becoming interested in now defunct attractions thanks to exposure through old home video recordings, YouTube vids, photos, online articles, etc.
You’d be pleasantly surprised to see just how many of us are out there and how much we contribute to investing in & preserving this legacy because of how sincerely impressed & appreciative we are of the quality and the talent behind it and are ‘severely’ disappointed & absolutely appalled with the newer replacements in comparison. Quality is quality & talent is talent, regardless of how old.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

The companies ‘severely’ underestimate our voices & influence… I think they’re in for a major surprise..

 

[FigmentFan82]

Back to willing a great v4 of Imagination into existence.

TDO plants, please take note!

 

[HMF]

The companies ‘severely’ underestimate our voices & influence… I think they’re in for a major surprise..

That seems to be a feature of companies (and governments) these days.

 

[jah4955]

To share some extra thoughts previously shared privately with @FigmentsBrightIdeas :

I started to believe there was an infinitesimal chance Imagination could return to its original form (with technological updates of last 27+ years of course) when the Tiki Room mostly, but unexpectedly, returned to its original form in 2011. Yes, it was (likely) spurred an unexpected fire, and yes Disney knew the 1998 version wasn't exactly beloved, and yes it can be argued Tiki room is not as complex as the original Imagination, but, as I've indicated elsewhere, I may be clinging to straw, but this is something.

I also received confirmation that many who want Imagination 1.0 back were unable to experience it in-time for its closure. Most-often because they didn't exist yet. Their passion comes mostly from secondhand accounts and digitized, but still relatively poor-quality, videocassette "camcorder" recordings.

In my opinion, based on having enjoyed the original attraction about 20 times between 1983 and 1998, and based on every video I've seen of the attraction to-date (but admit @marni1971 's the best I've seen), these particular advocates of "1.0" sadly haven't experienced even 10% of what that attraction was.

All the more reason to bring it back.

 

[Figments Friend]

I also received confirmation that many who want Imagination 1.0 back were unable to experience it in-time for its closure. Most-often because they didn't exist yet. Their passion comes mostly from secondhand accounts and digitized, but still relatively poor-quality, videocassette "camcorder" recordings.

In my opinion, based on having enjoyed the original attraction about 20 times between 1983 and 1998, and based on every video I've seen of the attraction to-date (but admit @marni1971 's the best I've seen), these particular advocates of "1.0" sadly haven't experienced even 10% of what that attraction was.

I have been saying this for the last two decades.
There is not a SINGLE piece of video documentation that accurately captures what the actual experience was like.
And I have seen plenty of examples over the years.

There are a couple of efforts that get close…and do manage to capture elements most others seem to miss, but the three major points that no video seems to capture are :

- The sensation and visual representation of your ride vehicle actually moving along with Dreamfinder’s flying machine during the opening ‘turntable’ show.
This was a standout effect and watching it on a video screen makes anbsolutely no impact whatsoever.
It is not clear what is actually happening in that scene since most folks focused on capturing the show itself, and not the ‘setting’.
It was amazing realizing you were ‘floating along’ in the clouds with Dreamfinder in this introductory presentation.
Unmatched.
You had to be there….

- The intensity and clarity of the color lighting, sets, and multiple effects.
This is mostly due to the filming format of the time ( video cameras that could not handle low lighting situations ).
There have been some recent efforts to use filers and AI enhancements to try to bring the color saturation back to a close representation of what it really used to look like on these old videos.
However, so much of the filmed footage is just far too muddy or washed out to really do much improvement.
The Original rides sets and lighting was so well done …and very visually engaging.

- And finally, just the massive scope of the entire Attraction experience in general.
But that is true for any large scale immersive experience now being seen on a small screen.
This Attraction truly enveloped you and all of your senses…from scent, to projections, to fabulously creative sets, and more.


-

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I have been saying this for the last two decades.
There is not a SINGLE piece of video documentation that accurately captures what the actual experience was like.
And I have seen plenty of examples over the years.

There are a couple of efforts that get close…and do manage to capture elements most others seem to miss, but the three major points that no video seems to capture are :

- The sensation and visual representation of your ride vehicle actually moving along with Dreamfinder’s flying machine during the opening ‘turntable’ show.
This was a standout effect and watching it on a video screen makes anbsolutely no impact whatsoever.
It is not clear what is actually happening in that scene since most folks focused on capturing the show itself, and not the ‘setting’.
It was amazing realizing you were ‘floating along’ in the clouds with Dreamfinder in this introductory presentation.
Unmatched.
You had to be there….

- The intensity and clarity of the color lighting, sets, and multiple effects.
This is mostly due to the filming format of the time ( video cameras that could not handle low lighting situations ).
There have been some recent efforts to use filers and AI enhancements to try to bring the color saturation back to a close representation of what it really used to look like on these old videos.
However, so much of the filmed footage is just far too muddy or washed out to really do much improvement.
The Original rides sets and lighting was so well done …and very visually engaging.

- And finally, just the massive scope of the entire Attraction experience in general.
But that is true for any large scale immersive experience now being seen on a small screen.
This Attraction truly enveloped you and all of your senses…from scent, to projections, to fabulously creative sets, and more.


-

Reading this makes me all the madder that there is such a lackluster attraction in the exact same spot now.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Reading this makes me all the madder that there is such a lackluster attraction in the exact same spot now.

More than lackluster, a horrible and just plain shameful disgrace… an absolute steaming pile of crap that’s completely upside down, phoned in & stinks (literally, on all accounts), makes ‘zero’ sense (ironically) when compared to the original ride, let alone on its own as a concept, period. I’m just waiting for more of the history to come out on how this ludicrious Honey, I Shrunk-ified transformation came about and why they did what they did for all the show scenes. Just you all wait… prepare to have your jaw drop and cringe in disgust. I genuinely believe there’s a truly despicable story here that deserves to be exposed for all to see, so something like this is ‘never’ able to happen again.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

If not that (or just that), something that deserves to be mocked, humiliated, and laughed at. It deserves to be seen for what it truly is. A ‘blatant’ sham and a mockery of a genuine beloved timeless classic. How anyone in their right mind found ‘that’ an improvement over the original or a suitable “return of the original’s spirit” in any way, shape, or form.. is beyond me. But it’s gonna happen soon, I guarantee it. Have full faith/confidence in it happening.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

And before anyone tells me that I’m dishonoring David Mumford by saying that. Trust me, I’m not doing that..he was one of the guys championing to bring Figment back initially and keep in mind, the person that took over his position once he sadly passed, during the making of this project (which I have reasons to believe was hijacked & screwed with once he was out of the picture), didn’t even bother to credit or mention him & his influence in written interviews done with them, let alone in the ride itself. (They sure decided to put ‘their’ initials on that ludicrous “to Small Figment Brains = No Connection/QED = Visual Confusion” “focus group” chart in the sight lab scene, but not David Mumford’s. And it’s mentioned by Jim Hill that David had tried to get Dreamfinder back in also initially, but to not avail… concept art proves this to be the case. (No idea why, since Chuck McCann, Dreamfinder’s voice, apparently does the snoring behind the Dream Lab door, but again, there’s def a story there, I’m sure..)

So yeah.. makes me wonder..

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Was looking at old forum posts here from the time period (2001-02).. and man, check this out. They at some point falsely credited Tony Baxter as coming back to return Figment to the pavilion (despite him not being chosen to do so in actuality, sadly) and it has a slightly different storyline, yet still within the Honey I Shrunk Institute lol. (Anyone genuinely think Tony & his team would be on board with keeping that, based on every other account of him, Bob Gibbons & their thoughts you’ve heard/read?) Oh yeah, and apparently at one point they wanted to retheme it to Monsters, Inc. and were selling merch for it outside at a cart (again, how does that make sense thematically?) and Figment would’ve been shoehorned into that in some bizarre way. Lol, just Wild, WILD stuff that again, makes ‘Zero’ sense at all. And all the comments even back then of people going “Why won’t they just revert it back to the original? ‘Why’ do they insist on keeping/connecting the Honey I Shrunk theming & Dr. Nigel Channing that nobody likes?” or just with random Film IP rethemes we don’t want or need. Cackling with laughter here. Exactly what we think to this day. :

According to this article from the Orlando Weekly, it will not be based on Monsters, Inc.(What exactly would Monsters Inc have to do with the Imagination Institute?) But rather, it will revolve around the idea that the Imagination has captured a living "Figment" of the imagination, but he has escaped, and you have to catch him. BTW, it’s being done by Tony Baxter, one of the Imagineers who designed the original Journey Into Imagination.

The Article:
Those who prefer their dragons non-smoking should know that Future World favorite -- Figment -- definitely will make a comeback. Tired of the endless complaints from Epcot guests about how Disney ruined the original "Journey into Imagination" ride during its 1999 redo, the Imagineers finally are doing something about it. Their first smart move was to assign veteran Imagineer Tony Baxter to undo the damage. Baxter helped create the original version of the Kodak Pavilion ride, and this month he will be honored with a lifetime achievement award from the Themed Entertainment Association in recognition of all the rides, shows and attractions he's dreamed up for Disney over the years. Though Baxter's crew hasn't officially finalized plans, the proposed name for the redo of the redo -- "Figment's Journey into Imagination" -- leaves no doubt about who will be front and center again once the revamped pavilion reopens in the fall of 2003. It's said that Epcot visitors now be will invited into WDW's Imagination Institute to view a most amazing discovery. It seems the Institute has managed to capture a really for-real figment of imagination. But just as guests enter, Figment breaks loose. Their mission is to help recapture the little purple dragon.

So Figment is definately coming back, but so is that Nigel guy from Honey,ISTA...

Go HERE to read the whole thing.