Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[DKampy]

Then find a park that is suitable for your needs or the needs of your family. Or what rides you prefer. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you.

I think the point is for Epic to be any sort of Disney swatter it would need to have more to capture the all age group from Toddlers to 80-something Grandma’s….. Six Flags is not positioning themselves as Disney competition

 

[Andrew C]

I think the point is for Epic to be any sort of Disney swatter it would need to have more to capture the all age group from Toddlers to 80-something Grandma’s

They don't need to be a Disney swatter, despite what some may think. And I would disagree with the point that they have to do this in order to compete. Overall, it seems they have been very successful doing things their own way, rather than trying to be some sort of copy.

 

[MrPromey]

100% agree.
Families with toddlers might not enjoy EPIC as much as other parks

This is on-brand for Universal in Orlando in general since it's pretty much the same for the other two parks and their water park.

 

[MrPromey]

I think the point is for Epic to be any sort of Disney swatter it would need to have more to capture the all age group from Toddlers to 80-something Grandma’s….. Six Flags is not positioning themselves as Disney competition

I believe "Disney swatter" is the wrong mindset. Does anyone think that's realistic in the foreseeable future?

Universal doesn't need to overtake or even get close to Disney if they can stay the clear and obvious #2 anymore than Pepsi needs to overtake Coke to be successful.

If they can bring in new audiences and maybe peel some attendance from Disney even if it's just an extra day here and there from a trip, that'll be a huge win for them.

Disney on the other hand, has to respond if something like that happens. Any loss in visitation or revenue that can be directly attributed to Universal is likely to be taken deadly serious, even if they're still generally making money hand-over-fist.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, so to speak.

As a fan of central Florida theme parks, I think such would be the best possible outcome for us, the fans/guests/consumers regardless of which property anyone prefers.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I believe "Disney swatter" is the wrong mindset. Does anyone think that's realistic in the foreseeable future?

Universal doesn't need to overtake or even get close to Disney if they can stay the clear and obvious #2 anymore than Pepsi needs to overtake Coke to be successful.

If they can bring in new audiences and maybe peel some attendance from Disney even if it's just an extra day here and there from a trip, that'll be a huge win for them.

Disney on the other hand, has to respond if something like that happens. Any loss in visitation or revenue that can be directly attributed to Universal is likely to be taken deadly serious, even if they're still generally making money hand-over-fist.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, so to speak.

As a fan of central Florida theme parks, I think such would be the best possible outcome for us, the fans/guests/consumers regardless of which property anyone prefers.

Technical Universal isn't in #2, hell they aren't even #3 in attendance. Now for theming, definitely but based on what I've heard (complete conjecture might I add) The park is not performing as well as they wanted it to which is REALLY risky considering the amount of debt that Comcast has. I would definitely possibly expect to see the budget cuts coming in full force in the next few years. At the end of the day, I think Disney still has the more exploitable IP for now while Universal is getting a lot of leedway from Pokemon. Marvel and Star Wars is a hard to beat combo. Plus Disney owns the rights (or atleast partial rights) to 13/20 of the highest grossing movies. Universal only has 3 of their own movies and 1 that they have the permanent theme park rights to (of course minus Marvel because that's a messy situation)

I think Universal really needs to think about stretching out their movie catalogue because right now, most of their hits were in the 70s-80s and they're chasing that high. They need some new homegrown IP imo to really threaten the "king".

 

[MrPromey]

Technical Universal isn't in #2, hell they aren't even #3 in attendance. Now for theming, definitely but based on what I've heard (complete conjecture might I add) The park is not performing as well as they wanted it to which is REALLY risky considering the amount of debt that Comcast has. I would definitely possibly expect to see the budget cuts coming in full force in the next few years. At the end of the day, I think Disney still has the more exploitable IP for now while Universal is getting a lot of leedway from Pokemon. Marvel and Star Wars is a hard to beat combo. Plus Disney owns the rights (or atleast partial rights) to 13/20 of the highest grossing movies. Universal only has 3 of their own movies and 1 that they have the permanent theme park rights to (of course minus Marvel because that's a messy situation)

I think Universal really needs to think about stretching out their movie catalogue because right now, most of their hits were in the 70s-80s and they're chasing that high. They need some new homegrown IP imo to really threaten the "king".

Who in Orlando besides Disney is beating out Universal, currently?

You're projecting operations in the coming years based on a park that's only been open officially to the general public for a month. It seems really silly to think operational issues they are experiencing in the first few weeks of full load is going to just be how it always is.

Yeah, Disney owns the best IP, too bad they can't use the best of their best in the Florida parks, eh?

Then again, we see what Disney's use of Spiderman in California worked out to be vs. the decades old version in Orlando so maybe instead of such a heavy focus on IP, Disney needs to put more focus on quality (which signs are showing they've started to)

And again, I don't think Universal is trying to "threaten" Disney. It's an incredibly stupid idea if they are. Realistically, MK is threatened more by climate change and the eventual flooding of Florida than it is another theme park operator.

All Uni has to do is turn a good profit on their Florida properties to be happy.

It's not like there's some cash-equivalent prize for them getting closer to Disney.

Again, I say it's a lot easier to be #2 (unless I'm just blind to who is pulling in more revenue in Central Florida that makes them whatever you think they are).

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Who in Orlando besides Disney is beating out Universal, currently?

Your projecting operations in the coming years based on a park that's only been open officially to the general public for a month. It seems really silly to think operational issues they are experiencing in the first few weeks of full load is going to just be how it always is.

Yeah, Disney owns the best IP, too bad they can't use the best of their best in the Florida parks, eh?

Then again, we see what Disney's use of Spiderman in California worked out to be vs. the decades old version in Orlando so maybe instead of such a heavy focus on IP, Disney needs to put more focus on quality (which signs are showing they've started to)

And again, I don't think Universal is trying to "threaten" Disney. It's an incredibly stupid idea if they are. Realistically, MK is threatened more by climate change and the eventual flooding of Florida than it is another theme park operator.

All Uni has to do is turn a good profit on their Florida properties to be happy.

It's not like there's some cash-equivalent prize for them getting closer to Disney.

Again, I say it's a lot easier to be #2 (unless I'm just blind to who is pulling in more revenue in Central Florida that makes them whatever you think they are).

I didn't mean Orlando only, I was talking global parks. In Orlando it's definitely Disney vs Universal. Also it is my understanding that the park is still not on full load currently. Also they can use Marvel characters but its a weird process and we don't know the whole contract. But rn Universal also can't use the "best of their best" IP either as they're kinda stuck with a very limited contract now that basically forbids them majorly changing anything and they can't use anything from the MCU.

But I do agree, Universal is not currently threatening anything. I was more exaggerating to make fun of the very common "Disney-killer" label that people were giving EPIC at first and how quiet that talk got after the actual opening. I think it's pretty clear that opening up a new park in this new age is DIFFICULT. I'm not sure if its because I don't interact with Universal content as much as other things but I've seen a significant drop off in anything EPIC related in the last few weeks. In fact, I've seen maybe 1-2 things EPIC related in the last week on my end. That is not something I expect from a theme park that opened 1 month ago.

I think the theme park does need some serious work to get it up to scratch with the other offerings in Florida but it isn't a bad park by any means. I would put it right a bit behind IOA in my ranking based on what I've experienced myself. Not nearly as bad as USF but doesn't quite reach as many of the heights as IOA for me.

 

[My95cobras]

I didn't mean Orlando only, I was talking global parks. In Orlando it's definitely Disney vs Universal. Also it is my understanding that the park is still not on full load currently. Also they can use Marvel characters but its a weird process and we don't know the whole contract. But rn Universal also can't use the "best of their best" IP either as they're kinda stuck with a very limited contract now that basically forbids them majorly changing anything and they can't use anything from the MCU.

But I do agree, Universal is not currently threatening anything. I was more exaggerating to make fun of the very common "Disney-killer" label that people were giving EPIC at first and how quiet that talk got after the actual opening. I think it's pretty clear that opening up a new park in this new age is DIFFICULT. I'm not sure if its because I don't interact with Universal content as much as other things but I've seen a significant drop off in anything EPIC related in the last few weeks. In fact, I've seen maybe 1-2 things EPIC related in the last week on my end. That is not something I expect from a theme park that opened 1 month ago.

I think the theme park does need some serious work to get it up to scratch with the other offerings in Florida but it isn't a bad park by any means. I would put it right a bit behind IOA in my ranking based on what I've experienced myself. Not nearly as bad as USF but doesn't quite reach as many of the heights as IOA for me.

We get it…. You don’t like universal but love making the same points over and over. Move on.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

We get it…. You don’t like universal but love making the same points over and over. Move on.

Nah nah nah. First off I do like Universal, just not as much. Second off, I don't see what point I'm making "over and over". This is the first time I've discussed almost any of this. Third off, when I said the same thing about people being repetitive of the competitor's issues, I was told that it was just part of the discussion of a forum and that I was a shill. So I'm not taking that nonsense. EPIC has serious problems and the only way they get actually fixed is by talking about them and not glazing the whole park like its an untouchable masterpiece. It needs indoor rides, it needs more general things to do, it needs better theming cohesion.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

DHS and AK really don't have much for a toddler right now either. I have a very tall 2.5 year old and AK was a half day park (even with animal trails) and DHS is totally skippable (he doesn't have a long enough attention span yet for most shows).

All of USO is currently skippable as well and only MK and EPCOT really have enough for 2 year olds.

Well DAK has NRJ and safari. Soon the carousel and encanto should be easy to ride plus the shows and trails. DHS has MMRR, TSM and aliens plus lots of shows.

 

[My95cobras]

Nah nah nah. First off I do like Universal, just not as much. Second off, I don't see what point I'm making "over and over". This is the first time I've discussed almost any of this. Third off, when I said the same thing about people being repetitive of the competitor's issues, I was told that it was just part of the discussion of a forum and that I was a shill. So I'm not taking that nonsense. EPIC has serious problems and the only way they get actually fixed is by talking about them and not glazing the whole park like its an untouchable masterpiece. It needs indoor rides, it needs more general things to do, it needs better theming cohesion.

Yah yah yah. You just stated the same points again in the last line, and you’ve restated the same thing others have for the past 30 pages. No, it’s not an untouchable masterpiece, but the serious issues you mention are not issues for 99% of park goers.

There is not an untouchable masterpiece park in Orlando…. Come up with something original that no one has stated and you have not just parroted from others.

 

[MrPromey]

I didn't mean Orlando only, I was talking global parks. In Orlando it's definitely Disney vs Universal. Also it is my understanding that the park is still not on full load currently. Also they can use Marvel characters but its a weird process and we don't know the whole contract. But rn Universal also can't use the "best of their best" IP either as they're kinda stuck with a very limited contract now that basically forbids them majorly changing anything and they can't use anything from the MCU.

But I do agree, Universal is not currently threatening anything. I was more exaggerating to make fun of the very common "Disney-killer" label that people were giving EPIC at first and how quiet that talk got after the actual opening. I think it's pretty clear that opening up a new park in this new age is DIFFICULT. I'm not sure if its because I don't interact with Universal content as much as other things but I've seen a significant drop off in anything EPIC related in the last few weeks. In fact, I've seen maybe 1-2 things EPIC related in the last week on my end. That is not something I expect from a theme park that opened 1 month ago.

I think the theme park does need some serious work to get it up to scratch with the other offerings in Florida but it isn't a bad park by any means. I would put it right a bit behind IOA in my ranking based on what I've experienced myself. Not nearly as bad as USF but doesn't quite reach as many of the heights as IOA for me.

Yeah, if you're talking about all properties combined there's someplace ahead of them in China and Merlin Entertainment beats them but that's because they have small parks under various properties all over the place.

But attendance does not equal revenue* and what makes Orland important is that it is a destination. People don't just show up at a park for a day and go home. They show up and then stay in a hotel room somewhere and eat somewhere and buy souvenirs. That's where the real money is and that's why companies like Disney and Universal have chosen to invest so heavily there rather than in regional offerings.**

Disney knows this which is why they haven't built a park near Cedar Point.

As for the best of their best IP, if we're talking most all-time, Marvel's most popular character (in terms of overall revenue including merch sales) by a country mile has been Spiderman for longer than I've been alive so I guess, draw whatever conclusions you want, there.

I'm sure Disney's making plenty of money in IOA merch sales so I'm not crying too much for them, though.

Personally, as a fan of Orlando area theme parks *I* would like Disney to feel a little pain or at least a little concern from Universal's efforts (if they will or not in the long-term remains to be seen) because I'd like to see Disney respond in a timely and meaningful way. As a reminder, Disney does not love you back so them feeling a market pressure that requires them to actively compete benefits you as much as everyone else.

**tickets for Merlin's parks are a lot cheaper than the WDW and UO parks and Legoland in FL, for instance, has APs cheaper than a single visit to either of the big two.
*Limited kiddie park near major metro area under construction, not withstanding.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Yah yah yah. You just stated the same points again in the last line, and you’ve restated the same thing others have for the past 30 pages. No, it’s not an untouchable masterpiece, but the serious issues you mention are not issues for 99% of park goers.

There is not an untouchable masterpiece park in Orlando…. Come up with something original that no one has stated and you have not just parroted from others.

People restate it because it's a big problem? So yeah, sorry but I'm not going back to read every message to see how many times it's brought up. The IP discussion is brought up a million times, lose of perks is brought up. There are genuine problems and they can be brought up freely. If you don't like me saying a billion dollar company could have done better than this with a problem that they already have been dealing with for 20 years, then you can just ignore it.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Yeah, if you're talking about all properties combined there's someplace ahead of them in China and Merlin Entertainment beats them but that's because they have small parks under various properties all over the place.

But attendance does not equal revenue* and what makes Orland important is that it is a destination. People don't just show up at a park for a day and go home. They show up and then stay in a hotel room somewhere and eat somewhere and buy souvenirs. That's where the real money is and that's why companies like Disney and Universal have chosen to invest so heavily there rather than in regional offerings.**

Disney knows this which is why they haven't built a park near Cedar Point.

As for the best of their best IP, if we're talking most all-time, Marvel's most popular character (in terms of overall revenue including merch sales) by a country mile has been Spiderman for longer than I've been alive so I guess, draw whatever conclusions you want, there.

I'm sure Disney's making plenty of money in IOA merch sales so I'm not crying too much for them, though.

Personally, as a fan of Orlando area theme parks *I* would like Disney to feel a little pain or at least a little concern from Universal's efforts (if they will or not in the long-term remains to be seen) because I'd like to see Disney respond in a timely and meaningful way. As a reminder, Disney does not love you back so them feeling a market pressure that requires them to actively compete benefits you as much as everyone else.

**tickets for Merlin's parks are a lot cheaper than the WDW and UO parks and Legoland in FL, for instance, has APs cheaper than a single visit to either of the big two.
*Limited kiddie park near major metro area under construction, not withstanding.

Oh no I agree, I want Universal to do well because rising tides. I'm being a bit overcritical to the park because I did genuinely expect a bit more from it since its the latest major park to open in FL for a LONG time. First one really in the vlogger heyday too.

At this point, I'm kinda hoping that Universal does eventually retheme their Marvel land just because I would like to see something different and fresh as other than Spiderman I don't love love the attractions there. But Marvel is defo not IOA's top priority rn and I would still say UO needs the help WAYYYYYYYY more anyway

 

[TalkingHead]

Noticed the Google reviews rating is down to 4.1. Lot of reviews complaining about multiple 3 hour waits and the high cost of Express and tickets. Bad value for the price seems to be a common refrain. Wonder what daily attendance is these days and how it compares to the opening weeks.

 

[earlthesquirrellover23]

Noticed the Google reviews rating is down to 4.1. Lot of reviews complaining about multiple 3 hour waits and the high cost of Express and tickets. Bad value for the price seems to be a common refrain. Wonder what daily attendance is these days and how it compares to the opening weeks.

It's definitely been extremely busy recently, looks like the park has been reaching average wait times recently of 65+ minutes which is around double the average overall wait time of the first couple weeks of the park being open. It seems like Super Nintendo World is a huge hit and Mario Kart regularly boasts one of the highest wait times in the park and sometimes is even a longer wait than Ministry though I suspect the capacity on Ministry has been improving recently. Hopefully the success and crowds are convincing Universal to get to work on adding new expansions to increase capacity as soon as possible.

 

[TalkingHead]

It's definitely been extremely busy recently, looks like the park has been reaching average wait times recently of 65+ minutes which is around double the average overall wait time of the first couple weeks of the park being open. It seems like Super Nintendo World is a huge hit and Mario Kart regularly boasts one of the highest wait times in the park and sometimes is even a longer wait than Ministry though I suspect the capacity on Ministry has been improving recently. Hopefully the success and crowds are convincing Universal to get to work on adding new expansions to increase capacity as soon as possible.

View attachment 866478

That’s useful data. Reading reviews that say 6 hrs of wait to get onto 2 rides or 8 hrs in the park for 3 rides, it sounds hellacious. Numerous complaints about the Mario ride and Donkey Kong having technical issues adding to the wait times, so that may be part of the issue some days too.

 

[Purduevian]

Well DAK has NRJ and safari. Soon the carousel and encanto should be easy to ride plus the shows and trails. DHS has MMRR, TSM and aliens plus lots of shows.

100% DAK will be better once Encanto and the carousel open... but people are complaining that EPC has nothing for the whole family... but I would argue it's pretty on par with DAK and DHS for those of us with young toddlers. At least my 2.5 year old won't sit through too many "broadway" style shows. Our DAK day started with FOTLK and he loved it, but we had to leave Nemo after 5 mins. We recently took a Disney cruise, and while we made it through the 3 Broadway shows (Aladdin, Frozen, and Believe) he wasn't super into any of them and required snacks/toys to get through them (we wanted to see them).

On a personal level, it's super hard to justify over $300 in tickets for USO, DHS, or DAK offer for our family (DAK is right on the boarder and Encanto and carousel would throw it over the top... but by the time it opens I'll have a 5 year old).

We are planning a big family trip next April and will have a 3.5, 2.5, and 6 month of. We will be in Orlando for a week and won't be doing DHS and are debating on AK. (thinking about driving out to Legoland instead for a day)

 

[Sir_Cliff]

100% DAK will be better once Encanto and the carousel open... but people are complaining that EPC has nothing for the whole family... but I would argue it's pretty on par with DAK and DHS for those of us with young toddlers. At least my 2.5 year old won't sit through too many "broadway" style shows. Our DAK day started with FOTLK and he loved it, but we had to leave Nemo after 5 mins. We recently took a Disney cruise, and while we made it through the 3 Broadway shows (Aladdin, Frozen, and Believe) he wasn't super into any of them and required snacks/toys to get through them (we wanted to see them).

On a personal level, it's super hard to justify over $300 in tickets for USO, DHS, or DAK offer for our family (DAK is right on the boarder and Encanto and carousel would throw it over the top... but by the time it opens I'll have a 5 year old).

We are planning a big family trip next April and will have a 3.5, 2.5, and 6 month of. We will be in Orlando for a week and won't be doing DHS and are debating on AK. (thinking about driving out to Legoland instead for a day)

All sounds fair enough, thanks for the perspective.

Do the animals make any difference with DAK? I would have thought that might keep younger children occupied, though I could certainly see why it wouldn't make the $300 easier to swallow!

I only ask as people never really mention animals when discussing what DAK has to do, but they are kind of central to how the park was originally planned.

 

[Purduevian]

All sounds fair enough, thanks for the perspective.

Do the animals make any difference with DAK? I would have thought that might keep younger children occupied, though I could certainly see why it wouldn't make the $300 easier to swallow!

I only ask as people never really mention animals when discussing what DAK has to do, but they are kind of central to how the park was originally planned.

I mean... he liked walking (strollering) through them, we did the discovery trails, gorilla falls, and jungle trek, but each one was under a 15 min experience for us as he would tell us he was "all done" pretty quick at each exhibit.

We are quite lucky to have a very good zoo ~30 mins from our house and have an annual pass to it. When the weather is good, he goes probably twice a month. He does the same thing at that zoo, but there are a lot more animals there so 30 seconds per animals is a nice morning or afternoon for him. I would say minute for minute, he liked the animal trails a little less than our home zoo because he really likes certain animals that DAK doesn't have (he loves penguins).

So again for me personally, when I'm looking at lets say $325 for my wife and I to get into animal kingdom, the animal trails don't really move the needle as it doesn't feel like something we can't get 30 mins from home and "free" (annual pass already bought). compare that to magic kingdom, where the "filler" attractions like tiki room and country bears are something we only can experience at Disney.