DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

The Leader of the Club

Well-Known Member
All y'all talking about Up when The Emperor's New Groove would be a perfect coaster.
I’m gonna push back on Emperor’s New Groove a bit. What does a coaster through Yzma’s lab have to do with the theme of DAK? Because she can turn people into animals?

We sit here and complain that Indy and Encanto are just cramming IP in without regards to the theme, then do it anyway when it’s an IP that we have nostalgia for.
 

bmr1591

Well-Known Member
I’m gonna push back on Emperor’s New Groove a bit. What does a coaster through Yzma’s lab have to do with the theme of DAK? Because she can turn people into animals?

We sit here and complain that Indy and Encanto are just cramming IP in without regards to the theme, then do it anyway when it’s an IP that we have nostalgia for.

I personally haven't complained about Encanto, but TENG is set in Peru, which is Tropical Americas and has a main character who is turned into a llama.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
I personally haven't complained about Encanto, but TENG is set in Peru, which is Tropical Americas and has a main character who is turned into a llama.
Cant Speak Nathan Fillion GIF
 

The Leader of the Club

Well-Known Member
Don’t get me wrong, I love ENG. I would love to see Yzma’s lab coaster end up in Villains land. Animal Kingdom just doesn’t feel like the park for that particular concept.

A dark ride following Kuzco & Pacha through the jungle could work, but I think people would be disappointed it’s not the lab coaster.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
This. Disney seems to think the only C/D tickets worth building are reskinned flat rides. Classic style dark rides could still work really well today- you don’t need everything to be super technologically crazy.
This, they are so focused on the largest most expensive technological complex attractions now (has to match their egos I imagine), that they have lost all sense of ride design, story, and art. But UK at Epcot could really benefit from a classic style dark ride as once planned (Poppins, Brave) as could the Studios. Its what Disney use to be masters at, they just don't have that skill anymore with the millennial imagineers, and for some reason at WDW they refuse to do it. Will see how this encanto thing turns out. While they aren't busbar type rides, Tokyo's Fantasy Springs is some proof left that physical built dark rides can still be achieved well.
Maybe if we echo it enough, they'll grace us with one. what i would give for a up close, physically small scale classic dark ride.

all the show buildings are mushroomed into huge warehouses that they lose a lot of the humanity.

bring back bus bars and scenic design!
All of this. I'm fed up with trackless dark rides that move slowly through giant, empty rooms and park the riders in front of a screen. I'd love it if they added another "classic style" dark ride to Fantasyland - they could take out the Tomorrowland Speedway and put an Alice in Wonderland dark ride, for example.
The Emperor's New Groove flopped in theaters
Wasn't it basically sabotaged by Disney because they saw it as an embarrassment? Y'know, because it wasn't the big epic dramedy that took itself seriously it was originally going to be?
Watch out, world, here he are.
I still find the lyric "When it comes to the universe, we're all shareholders!" cringe-worthy. It's so pandering.
What does a coaster through Yzma’s lab have to do with the theme of DAK?
Don’t get me wrong, I love ENG. I would love to see Yzma’s lab coaster end up in Villains land. Animal Kingdom just doesn’t feel like the park for that particular concept.

A dark ride following Kuzco & Pacha through the jungle could work, but I think people would be disappointed it’s not the lab coaster.
I agree with this too. Come to think of it, some sort of Junior Woodchucks show hosted by Kronk with live animals could work in Animal Kingdom, couldn't it?
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
This, they are so focused on the largest most expensive technological complex attractions now (has to match their egos I imagine), that they have lost all sense of ride design, story, and art. But UK at Epcot could really benefit from a classic style dark ride as once planned (Poppins, Brave) as could the Studios. Its what Disney use to be masters at, they just don't have that skill anymore with the millennial imagineers, and for some reason at WDW they refuse to do it. Will see how this encanto thing turns out. While they aren't busbar type rides, Tokyo's Fantasy Springs is some proof left that physical built dark rides can still be achieved well.
I wish Disney would of focused on that, what they do best with dark rides, lands they since built international. Which is why running after the Harry Potter at Universal route they couldn't even do it nor wanted to do with Star Wars with what people and fans wanted. The only reason Avatar was a success was because of control of James Cameron. That's why I'm very optimistic about Encanto and the Tropical Americas for WDW. I am not with Monsters Inc because that's a basic refacade and as for Cars it's an Epcot transformation risk within it's hands.
 

Charlie The Chatbox Ghost

Well-Known Member
Ya'll want Emperor's New Groove representation at the parks when the movie underperformed at the box office but also complain why Wish got it's own float in the Starlight parade when the movie also underperformed.
It underperformed but was well-received by audiences and is a beloved classic today. Wish on the other hand underperformed and also had, at best, a lukewarm reception. Box office isn't the only factor in what makes a movie "good" or "deserving of park representation". Plenty of box office flops have attractions- Pinocchio, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland... the list goes on. Princess and the Frog was also barely a profitable film when it released, and now it has one of the most popular rides (wait time wise) at the Disney parks.
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
People love to hate DCA 1.0 and to some extent I get it, it didn't have much of the Disney "magic" to it. However, it was completely devoid of IP. Just original ideas. Could have been executed better, but at least there was an attempt. I wonder if the initial flop of it is what scared them and sealed the fate of virtually everything being IP only moving forward.
Amazing though how it introduced a new popular Epcot attraction and one for all other Disney parks and itself with Soarin
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
It underperformed but was well-received by audiences and is a beloved classic today. Wish on the other hand underperformed and also had, at best, a lukewarm reception. Box office isn't the only factor in what makes a movie "good" or "deserving of park representation". Plenty of box office flops have attractions- Pinocchio, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland... the list goes on. Princess and the Frog was also barely a profitable film when it released, and now it has one of the most popular rides (wait time wise) at the Disney parks.
Well let's be honest, WISH is a terrible movie... the lukewarm reception is more than warranted.... Pinocchio and Alice may have underperformed in their time, but were always part of the beloved Disney lineup...And both of their dark rides are very sweet and well done... In neither case did they decide to rewrite the film canon and move the storyline forward to imagine, say Pinocchio's first job as a real boy, or Alice planning her wedding. The stories were strong enough and well known enough to stand on their own... It would b nice if they woulkd go back to the way the old guard looked at the parks...Some IP, some orginal attractions with a concentration on a wonderful experience, not just cramming IP down everyone's throat.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
With the news that the DLP Lion King ride will have 3 drops, the tallest being as tall as Splash, and it will have great capacity with 3 seater logs, I'm now hoping even more that they decide to build it at Africa too

Well, DAK doesn't really need a height restriction/thrilling ride, but I'd be happy to see anything added. Really the park needs something long, indoors and all ages in order to balance out the portfolio. Encanto will probably help but it needs more than that.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
The character is thee primary reason for the IP. Adventure Is Indiana Jones, and what is Indiana Jones' relationship to animals? What images does that evoke? are the kinds of questions asked if a property was tied in.

Primarily, Indiana Jones' connection with animals is his fearing of snakes while raiding temples and covering them with gasoline and setting them on fire.
Your description and idea is great as far as what can be done, and we know he can be made to fit, but it also makes the character ironically enough inconsequential.

It is not that your idea (and likely, they are coming up with one like it) are bad. But exploring and raiding are not the same.

The same framework you wrote is Expedition Everest with the mythical creature as the diety protector, and there was more care to that then plopping Indiana Jones on that adventure, because its not quite a fit. (It was argued against getting Indy in AK for a long time)

There seems to be a deep confusion around the difference between theme and characterization.

Taking out the fact that the IP mandate is dumb, and operating within those parameters, I'm going to say something controversial.

Almost *any* Disney IP can fit in almost *any* Disney Park.

There are a couple of qualifications to this:
* The *story* of whatever attraction the IP is added to has to fit the *theme* of the park or area - *or* the characterization of a specific character lends itself to the theme of the area.
* The characterization cannot be out of place for that character.

That's the whole point of taking known characters and putting them in new circumstances - you could have Wall-E in AK and have it be a thematic fit - or the Incredibles.

Now,.some things wouldn't fit. I would have a hard time seeing Star Wars, but even there there are some concepts that would fit.

Case in point: Many felt that Moana was a poor fit for Epcot - yet the end product actually turned out to be a decent thematic fit, even with the other legit criticism of that attraction. Conversely, Frozen is a decent thematic fit for Norway on the surface, but the execution was poor and not at all a thematic fit.

Indy can certainly be a good fit as described by other posts - a specific adventure that pits Indy against nature that he learns from.

Encanto as well - could be a ride through Casita and culminating in Antonio's room for an exploration of South American animals, or something more complex such as a threat to the local ecosystem.

Both of these can work within the theme of AK, be true to the characters, and present good stories and rides. Now, whether they execute on that is another story.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
There seems to be a deep confusion around the difference between theme and characterization.

Taking out the fact that the IP mandate is dumb, and operating within those parameters, I'm going to say something controversial.

Almost *any* Disney IP can fit in almost *any* Disney Park.

There are a couple of qualifications to this:
* The *story* of whatever attraction the IP is added to has to fit the *theme* of the park or area - *or* the characterization of a specific character lends itself to the theme of the area.
* The characterization cannot be out of place for that character.

That's the whole point of taking known characters and putting them in new circumstances - you could have Wall-E in AK and have it be a thematic fit - or the Incredibles.

Now,.some things wouldn't fit. I would have a hard time seeing Star Wars, but even there there are some concepts that would fit.

Case in point: Many felt that Moana was a poor fit for Epcot - yet the end product actually turned out to be a decent thematic fit, even with the other legit criticism of that attraction. Conversely, Frozen is a decent thematic fit for Norway on the surface, but the execution was poor and not at all a thematic fit.

Indy can certainly be a good fit as described by other posts - a specific adventure that pits Indy against nature that he learns from.

Encanto as well - could be a ride through Casita and culminating in Antonio's room for an exploration of South American animals, or something more complex such as a threat to the local ecosystem.

Both of these can work within the theme of AK, be true to the characters, and present good stories and rides. Now, whether they execute on that is another story.

So many degrees in there. It depends on how much you want the characterization to be detailed and remain, or bend.
It also does not help here that Indy is not the most dynamic character. He has moments but if he realizes the error of raiding and not caring for the environment, it does not feel genuine to the character. YMMV with what people care about.
In Disneyland's Adventureland and Tokyo Disney Sea, it matches the romanticized spirit of adventure and the perils.
The fiction is not the issue, but the more you have to write, it seems the more the character bends, not reinforces.

This is similar to your example of why Pandora fits in AK where Star Wars doing the same thing with caring for sci fi creatures would be a stretch. There are no conservation themes naturally in Star Wars or its main characters. Neither does Indiana Jones. care much for animals and nicest he ever was, was to riding elephants. The theme often has him at odds combatting or against those creature of nature as an obstacle. Remember, the dude has a whip and hates snakes.
Pandora does.
People want Indy to be likeable, that is why Disney is choosing the IP there. He is the hero of a story. A story that raids temples and has not been too kind to the natural world. So either he changes, meaning character bends and becomes oddly dynamic, that can work but a bit forced to say the least, or the theme of the attraction is irrelevant, which means the theme park's throughline is bent or sacrificed.
And it is not a big deal, but it plays differently.
 
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Bocabear

Well-Known Member
There seems to be a deep confusion around the difference between theme and characterization.

Taking out the fact that the IP mandate is dumb, and operating within those parameters, I'm going to say something controversial.

Almost *any* Disney IP can fit in almost *any* Disney Park.

There are a couple of qualifications to this:
* The *story* of whatever attraction the IP is added to has to fit the *theme* of the park or area - *or* the characterization of a specific character lends itself to the theme of the area.
* The characterization cannot be out of place for that character.

That's the whole point of taking known characters and putting them in new circumstances - you could have Wall-E in AK and have it be a thematic fit - or the Incredibles.

Now,.some things wouldn't fit. I would have a hard time seeing Star Wars, but even there there are some concepts that would fit.

Case in point: Many felt that Moana was a poor fit for Epcot - yet the end product actually turned out to be a decent thematic fit, even with the other legit criticism of that attraction. Conversely, Frozen is a decent thematic fit for Norway on the surface, but the execution was poor and not at all a thematic fit.

Indy can certainly be a good fit as described by other posts - a specific adventure that pits Indy against nature that he learns from.

Encanto as well - could be a ride through Casita and culminating in Antonio's room for an exploration of South American animals, or something more complex such as a threat to the local ecosystem.

Both of these can work within the theme of AK, be true to the characters, and present good stories and rides. Now, whether they execute on that is another story.
I would argue it is a nice walk-through in an area that needs activation since they just tore down half of the buildings in this area and there is nothing else going on.... I don't hate the Moana walk-through, but just because it is soething in an area of nothing, doesn't make it fit into the theme of the area....It doesn't feel attached to The Seas in any way... it is a sort of standalone thing that relates to nothing but itself.... This would have been a beautiful addition to the Animal Kingdom or Adventureland.... but unless they build more to relate to it...make it relate to the rest of the "World Nature" area which is poorly defined and completely lacks any sort of cohesion, it is always going to feel a bit misplaced....
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I would argue it is a nice walk-through in an area that needs activation since they just tore down half of the buildings in this area and there is nothing else going on.... I don't hate the Moana walk-through, but just because it is soething in an area of nothing, doesn't make it fit into the theme of the area....It doesn't feel attached to The Seas in any way... it is a sort of standalone thing that relates to nothing but itself.... This would have been a beautiful addition to the Animal Kingdom or Adventureland.... but unless they build more to relate to it...make it relate to the rest of the "World Nature" area which is poorly defined and completely lacks any sort of cohesion, it is always going to feel a bit misplaced....

This. Where as for Awesome Planet(even with subtle Ty Burell IP real estate joke connection) they nailed it.
 

Timothy_Q

Well-Known Member
Neither does Indiana Jones. care much for animals and nicest he ever was, was to riding elephants. The theme often has him at odds combatting or against those creature of nature as an obstacle. Remember, the dude has a whip and hates snakes.

People want Indy to be likeable, that is why Disney is choosing the IP there. He is the hero of a story. A story that raids temples and has not been too kind to the natural world. So either he changes, meaning character bends and becomes oddly dynamic, that can work but a bit forced to say the least, or the theme of the attraction is irrelevant, which means the theme park's throughline is bent or sacrificed.
The theme of DAK isn't about humans and animals getting along though
The park is meant to be the relationship between man and nature, both the positive and the negative sides of it

Many of the original DAK attractions touched upon the negative side
Kilimanjaro (poaching), Kali (logging) and ITTBAB (humans' hatred of bugs)

You don't have to turn Indy into an animal lover for him to fit the park
His indifference or carelesness towards nature can be woven into the story of the ride
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
The theme of DAK isn't about humans and animals getting along though
The park is meant to be the relationship between man and nature, both the positive and the negative sides of it

Many of the original DAK attractions touched upon the negative side
Kilimanjaro (poaching), Kali (logging) and ITTBAB (humans' hatred of bugs)

You don't have to turn Indy into an animal lover for him to fit the park
His indifference or carelesness towards nature can be woven into the story of the ride

Yes. That right there. Man's relationship with the natural world.

Indy through that lense has the negative side and is not questioned in the source IP with the character being non dynamic.

If you have Indy the guy who hast to learn a lesson, he is not a hero of the ride's IP. Since that is not what is going in, it is just Adventure. Indy's carelessness or selfishness is never questioned nor even seen as that in the property.
So that is the best case so the theme of the park does not change, but the character does.

It can fit, but you bend the character a way that is not known in any of the IP, which mean, you bend the character.
If you don't, you bend the park.
 
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James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
This is similar to your example of why Pandora fits in AK where Star Wars doing the same thing with caring for sci fi creatures would be a stretch. There are no conservation themes naturally in Star Wars or its main characters. Neither does Indiana Jones. care much for animals and nicest he ever was, was to riding elephants. The theme often has him at odds combatting or against those creature of nature as an obstacle. Remember, the dude has a whip and hates snakes.
Pandora does.
People want Indy to be likeable, that is why Disney is choosing the IP there. He is the hero of a story. A story that raids temples and has not been too kind to the natural world. So either he changes, meaning character bends and becomes oddly dynamic, that can work but a bit forced to say the least, or the theme of the attraction is irrelevant, which means the theme park's throughline is bent or sacrificed.
And it is not a big deal, but it plays differently.
Pandora needed to be a deep thematic fit because it was the pervasive basis for an entire land. By contrast, Encanto and IJ will be singular attractions slotted into a larger land formatted the same way as the other village/attraction complexes in the park. Pueblo Esperanza is additional connective tissue for the overarching AK theme to play out beyond "Encantoland" or "Indianaland".

As to your issue with IJ specifically, I get the argument from a franchise standpoint, but based on the other two IJ attractions in the same format that have been built elsewhere, his presence in the ride itself will be so ridiculously minimal that it'll be little more than a cameo. It barely matters what his history with animals is because he'll probably show up for all of five seconds total to hold a door closed and/or dodge a boulder.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I get the argument from a franchise standpoint, but based on the other two IJ attractions in the same format that have been built elsewhere, his presence in the ride itself will be so ridiculously minimal that it'll be little more than a cameo. It barely matters what his history with animals is because he'll probably show up for all of five seconds total to hold a door closed and/or dodge a boulder.

So then those should ask themselves, does your description sound like a character and IP involved with the theme or the park's throughline or IP slapped in that does not fit without bending the IP or the park?
 
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James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
So then those should ask themselves, does your description sound like a character involved with the theme or the park's throughline?
Or IP slapped in that does not fit without bending the IP or the park?
You can feel however you want about IP going everywhere. I'm just saying that his presence in every version of this ride is basically to say a sentence at the start, disappear for the vast duration of the ride, dodge a trap, and then note, "Whew! That was a close one," at the end. The general substance of his character and his history is largely irrelevant to this attraction, assuming it is similarly formatted. There is no reason to assume they have to "change" his character to fit as you suggested when we've seen that he'll probably be largely inactive and minimally present.
 

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